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[procricket]

Got to start to say i know both processes and know them well.

Was intrigued today by somebody telling me machine made bats are not as good as traditional made bats.

The discussion took about 2 minutes to correct but would like to know what people real thoughts are of the process advantages and disadvantages of both.

Good to see people knowledge. 

[trypewriter]

I think there is room for both. Both methods have their merits. Both can produce great performing bats.

[procricket]

I think there is room for both. Both methods have their merits. Both can produce great performing bats.

Yes agree mate but what are the pro and cons of both.

[WalkingWicket37]

At the end of the day if it's hand made or CNCd that's just the shaping of the bat, it's the pressing that makes the bat perform, if it's well pressed it will be a decent bat regardless if it's hand made or CNC made.

This can be locked now 

[procricket]

At the end of the day if it's hand made or CNCd that's just the shaping of the bat, it's the pressing that makes the bat perform, if it's well pressed it will be a decent bat regardless if it's hand made or CNC made.

This can be locked now 

Yes but what are the pro and cons mate.

Pressing is part and i stress only part of the performance of a bat.


As we used to be a talking badger forum now we seem to be quiet though i would start a topic about the virtues of both.

[joeljonno]

Well, it is always diffcult to give pro's and con's

With a CnC machine, there is no uniqueness as once the design has been put in, it can be saved and others could use it.


However, if you can save it, once your current bat has gone, you can get an identical one made.

[trypewriter]

Yes agree mate but what are the pro and cons of both.

CNC - Pros
All things being equal, if you want an exact shape/copy of a bat, you will get that EXACT shape in the exact dimensions.
Cons: I don't know how it works at each stage, but maybe not quite as exact in balance/weight ? - I'm sure you will let me know Dave.

Hand made - Pros
Maybe more opportunity for micro adjustments during the making to get the best out of the cleft and create a better balanced bat.
Cons: more opportunity for slightly uneven measurements/edges etc. ?

As you can see Dave, what is a strength could also be a source of weakness - would that be a fair assessment?

[tom line]

Well, it is always diffcult to give pro's and con's

With a CnC machine, there is no uniqueness as once the design has been put in, it can be saved and others could use it.


However, if you can save it, once your current bat has gone, you can get an identical one made.

could you not argue however that there is no uniqueness to a mass produced bat out of any Indian or Pakistani companies? instead just a shape that they have produced so much it is embedded into there heads ?

[joeljonno]

could you not argue however that there is no uniqueness to a mass produced bat out of any Indian or Pakistani companies? instead just a shape that they have produced so much it is embedded into there heads ?

I am more talking about custom made.

For instance, I go to B3 to get what I want as a unique bat for myself.

That will be saved and other players will also be able to get it so the unique bat I had could become mainstream.

[procricket]

CNC - Pros
All things being equal, if you want an exact shape/copy of a bat, you will get that EXACT shape in the exact dimensions.
Cons: I don't know how it works at each stage, but maybe not quite as exact in balance/weight ? - I'm sure you will let me know Dave.

Hand made - Pros
Maybe more opportunity for micro adjustments during the making to get the best out of the cleft and create a better balanced bat.
Cons: more opportunity for slightly uneven measurements/edges etc. ?

As you can see Dave, what is a strength could also be a source of weakness - would that be a fair assessment?

But this is a good point look at your handmade Pro's

Why can't you have it adjusted off a machine so many people think (i know you don't mate) that bats fall of a conveyor belt with a CnC.

We have 2 craftsman and a very experienced one in Gavin Corns.

The magic is not made by the machine but by the designer then the batmaker because ultimately all the CnC does is the donkey work and shape and in our case within .2 of a ounce.

[WalkingWicket37]

Hand made

Pros

Traditional method
100% bat maker control throughout
Can make adjustments to original idea to meet needs (balance etc)

Cons

No two exactly the same (could also be a pro)
Easier to cock up




CNC

Pros

100% accuracy, can repeat shapes
Can see what you'll get before it's made (CAD)
Can tell dead weight of finished bat from cleft


Cons
Non traditional method
Harder to make slight adjustments midway through process
Machine cost more than traditional tools



Yes I'm scraping the barrel, some may be pros and cons depending on point of view.
Either way I love both methods for different reasons, one isn't truly "better" than the other. There can even be a hybrid of machine and hand made (e.g Dave's Trott bat).
Batmaking is a skilled art be it handmade, CNC made or a mixture of both.

[WalkingWicket37]

But this is a good point look at your handmade Pro's

Why can't you have it adjusted off a machine so many people think (i know you don't mate) that bats fall of a conveyor belt with a CnC.

We have 2 craftsman and a very experienced one in Gavin Corns.

The magic is not made by the machine but by the designer then the batmaker because ultimately all the CnC does is the donkey work and shape and in our case within .2 of a ounce.

I made the same point about adjustment so will clarify what I mean.

Hand made, if you want to take a bit of weight off you do it then and there however you see fit.

Machine made, if you want to take a bit of weight off you go into the CAD program, tweak the design and re-set new design into the machine.

Yes it can be done, so it's not really a con as such, just different to how people think it works.

[procricket]

Not harder to make adjustments mate at all that the only error i see i can make a bat 1oz lighter by taking 1cm off the whole profile on the machine.

Basically you can always have alterations i grant where the only CNC where you can get this done custom made.

We have a batmaker who does my re balancing if i don't like it and re-balances if i need.

I like to call our method cross-over because we use both methods in tandom.

Consistency is our main tool

I do love both method this was not about B3 because i have seen both methods closely and had to correct a person who though he new about bats.

I have time for both and enjoy going to both kind of workshops.

[procricket]

I made the same point about adjustment so will clarify what I mean.

Hand made, if you want to take a bit of weight off you do it then and there however you see fit.

Machine made, if you want to take a bit of weight off you go into the CAD program, tweak the design and re-set new design into the machine.

Yes it can be done, so it's not really a con as such, just different to how people think it works.

Why not just get the craftsman to do it at the end???

As i said a mix is best in my eyes tradition and tech.

As i told my friend i bet 95 per cent can not tell if it has been machine made or not.

[Northern monkey]

Pros and cons
Kinda irrelevant if at the end you get what you want
The pros and cons I would assume, would apply to cost and ease of manufacture?

The company I work for have two Cnc,s churning out furniture day in day out,,each piece to reasonable tolerances and in a fraction of the time a bench joiner would be able to complete the operation

If a bespoke piece is ordered, program's etc will have to be changed and costly changes made to manufacturing processes to allow for the changes needed,,pushing up costs accordingly.

I'm sure for shaping a cleft, removing the majority of excess timber and getting to a nearly finished shape and profile,, the use of a Cnc is perfect,(after you've forked out a bit of cash for one!)
As most of us know, the devil is in the detail,,and the finishing of the bat.

I've said this before,, yes there's room for all methods of shaping
And personally I don't give a monkeys,,as long as it's the bat I expect to receive