Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
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Buzz

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Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« on: September 09, 2014, 10:01:42 AM »

Looking at twitter - there seem to be a whole range of people who seem to think chucking is good for cricket for a variety of different reasons.

frankly I think this is ridiculous, however I am interested in people's views who are for extending the 15 degree tolerance for bowling actions.

(reasons like everyone does it do not count please)

As a batsman who has faced a number of "chuckers" (with plenty of "oh, I have been cleared by the surrey coaches" b.s. as his front foot splays, chest opens in delivery and the ball is thrown at me and the red faced umpires do nothing about it)  I think the crack down can't come soon enough

As a batsman you have less than a second to react, move into position and play a shot - to do so you need to have all the signals of the line and length and speed the "straight armed" delivery gives you. With a chuck it is much harder.


to balance this - here is Atherton who thinks it is good for the game


Mystery of spin is for the good of the game
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/columnists/mikeatherton/article4175330.ece
Before the one-day international between England and Sri Lanka at Edgbaston in June, I stood in the middle watching Sachithra Senanayake bowl in practice. It was fascinating, like nothing I’d seen before, really: a combination of off spinners, leg spinners, top-spinners, carrom balls, doosras, and flickers — all bowled with an arm that straightened on delivery. I would have loved to have faced him in a match.

He was scowling a bit, and there was some anger given that he had just been reported for bowling with a suspect action, an anger that probably encouraged him later that day to “Mankad” Jos Buttler, well within his rights to do so though he was. After that, he was sent to Cardiff for testing, which he failed, and he was subsequently banned from cricket. The umpires who reported him, Ian Gould and Marais Erasmus, were clearly correct in their judgment.

Since then, Senanayake has been sent to Perth, to the University of Western Australia, for remedial work with an expert in biomechanics. I hope he manages to recalibrate his action in the six-month window that he is allowed and returns to play against England in the one-day series that starts in November and at the World Cup next winter. He is good for the game.

Gould was also the umpire who recently reported the leading spinner of the day, Saeed Ajmal, in Galle, after Pakistan’s Test match against Sri Lanka. It has been reported that the ICC is keen to crack down on suspected illegal actions, that, to quote Geoff Allardice, the ICC’s general manager: “Some bowlers operating with suspect actions should be scrutinised more closely.” That attitude has been borne out by the facts: Ajmal is now the fifth bowler, after Senanayake, Kane Williamson, Marlon Samuels and Shane Shillingford, to be reported within the past year.

The ICC is helped in its crusade, if indeed that is what it is, by the preponderance of umpires from outside the sub-continent on the elite panel. There is undoubtedly a cultural difference at work here: the perception of what is acceptable in a bowling action is different in countries that have not produced so-called “mystery” spinners. Of the 12 umpires on the elite panel, four are from Australia, where the doosra is not encouraged, four are from England, where it is not generally bowled, and there is one each from New Zealand and South Africa. Only two, Kumar Dharmasena and Aleem Dar, are from the sub-continent.

Is there a contradiction in saying that Gould and his colleagues are right to report suspect actions, and saying that Ajmal and others who clearly straighten their arms to the point at which they become suspect, are good for the game? Martin Crowe, the former New Zealand captain who is one of the sharpest thinkers on the game, would say so, since, in his MCC Spirit of Cricket Cowdrey Lecture some years ago, he described throwing as the game’s “Achilles’ heel”. I disagree.

Cricket is a great game when the balance between bat and ball is maintained, and the Laws are adhered to. For many years, covered pitches made of hard loams that did not break up over the course of a five-day game, and the preponderance of batsmen using their pads as a second line of defence, meant that it was increasingly difficult for traditional — orthodox — spinners to make their mark. Twenty years ago, there were half the number of spinners in the top 20 of the world rankings as there are now.

What has changed? Two things: the advent of Hawk-Eye and the Decision Review System (DRS) has encouraged more umpires to give batsmen out on the front foot, with the result that they have to use their bats and not their pads, so that spinners can more easily threaten both edges of the bat. Second, there has been a relaxation in the allowances given to bowlers in how much they are allowed to straighten their arms, so that a number of “mystery” spinners have sprung up, able to bowl doosras, carrom balls and flickers from a front-on action with an arm that moves from bent to straight, so challenging batsmen in more ways than traditional finger spinners were able to achieve.

Aficionados will know the reasons for this relaxation, and why the ICC allows bowlers to flex their bowling arm to a maximum of 15 degrees in apparent contravention of Law 24.3. This is because technological advances found that virtually all bowlers straightened their arm to some degree, even those who looked pure to the naked eye. During the Champions Trophy in 2004, a number of bowlers were analysed and only one bowled with an absolutely straight arm: Ramnaresh Sarwan.

Initially, the tolerances were set at 5 degrees for spinners, 7.5 degrees for medium-pace bowlers and 10 degrees for fast bowlers, until this, too, was found to be unworkable because they were too low. In 2005, the tolerance was set at 15 degrees and there it has remained since.

In some ways, it was an arbitrary setting, although based on the understanding that any straightening of the arm over 15 degrees becomes visible to the naked eye, at which point umpires can report players for further scrutiny and testing.

No doubt the ICC’s initial moves to override Law 24.3 were inspired by the fear of legal action. If it banned a bowler because he obviously threw, that bowler would be more than justified in taking the authorities to court once it could be shown that nearly all bowlers break the Law when they bowl. The unintended consequence was the aforementioned proliferation of “mystery” finger spinners, mainly from the sub-continent.

The balance between bat and ball in cricket is like a fragile ecosystem. You tinker with it at your peril, but because of the nature of the game, things happen to keep it more or less in balance. Batsmen have prospered through the covering of pitches, protective equipment, better bats, smaller boundaries and innovative shots. For a while it looked as though things were tilting too far, but DRS and the allowances on straightening the arm have recalibrated it.

But this is where the present activism of Gould and his fellow umpires is important. No one, I think, would like to see it get out of control. No one would wish to see cricket become a version of baseball, where bowlers are simply allowed to run up and blatantly chuck the ball. The fragile ecosystem would then face obliteration.

The message has been sent recently that there are limits, that the umpires are vigilant and that the ICC will act if it is felt to be getting out of control. Soon enough, technology will allow for testing to be done during match conditions.

Those who argue against bowlers, such as Ajmal, must do so on statistical grounds, since all bowlers have been shown to break Law 24.3. How, it is argued, can you compare bowlers from different generations when some were allowed to straighten their arms and some were not? But statistical comparisons have always been problematic: how can you compare the figures of batsmen who played on uncovered pitches and those who did not wear helmets, with present-day players? And besides, statistics are irrelevant compared to the development, beauty and mystery of the game.

Muttiah Muralitharan showed that it is possible to be a great bowler within the limits — his doosra was tested at 14 degrees tolerance. Ajmal has been cleared before. He will have the chance to be cleared again or, if not, modify his action until it is within the limits that are set. As will Senanayake. The game moves on.

High left elbows, playing in the “V” and sideways-on actions dominated the scene for a long time. But that was a monochrome cricket world in comparison. These skills are far too important and beautiful to lose — provided things do not get out of control.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 10:18:56 AM by Buzz »
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TBONTB

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2014, 10:07:12 AM »

We had a lad this year who would flick between the worst chuck you have ever seen to a normal delivery. His chucks would turn and bounce like nothing I've seen but his normal ones were almost all shocking deliveries. It is almost like he would disguise his chucking with some terrible ones to put you off complaining!
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TangoWhiskey

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2014, 10:11:35 AM »

Chucking in cricket is acceptable because you can earn big bucks in the T20 franchises and become a big player on the international scene before anyone gets round to calling you for it. I'm currently working on my baseball style curve ball which is going to net me a huge IPL contract.
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MJB3

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2014, 10:12:20 AM »

I will stick my head above the parapet in saying that those with 'suspect actions' are good for the game. In the post Warne era, barring Swann, the best spinners have had question marks over the legality of their action.

With batsmen more innovative, bats bigger, pitches deader and boundaries shortet I believe that these' innovative' actions are good for the game.  Beyond Steyn and Johnson, Ajmal is probably the only other bowler who would draw a crowd. It can't be argued that watching Ajmal and his limp elbowed army take on some of the best batsmen in the world is great viewing.

I'm not saying it is within the spirit of the game, and I would have reservations about fast bowlers chucking it (more dangerous, but where is the line between fast/slow bowling) and enforcing new laws.

My views are coming from a purely entertainment/balancing power between bat and ball way of thinking
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smilley792

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2014, 10:12:43 AM »

Say 10% of howlers in a matter cricket have an action deemed ileggal(weather true or not).

What happens when they get called out? I doubt any amateur league can afford to test a 100 odd bowlers.

So do we then just ban them?

So these players are banned from bowling. There no longer gone pay subs and membership to play so leave.

Clubs fold either there 3rd or 2nd as they don't have replacements.  Or even worse completely.


The league now has 4 divisions instead of 7.
And is now struggling financial.

League then folds. Clubs struggle to get a place elsewhere.




Extreme circumstances but could happen.
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Twelfth Man

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2014, 10:40:53 AM »

If they're chucking it, it's against the laws of cricket and shouldn't be allowed to  bowl.

You don't see Sunday League Pub football sides letting players pick up the ball, run with it and chuck it in the net because it promotes participation!

(Yes, drastic comparision)
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2014, 10:58:50 AM »

It's not acceptable end of discussion.
The laws of the game prohibit it so why do it?

I was no balled for chucking in a Sunday friendly once, I knew I had done it so it was justified but it goes to show some umpires do know a chuck when they see it!
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Manormanic

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2014, 11:50:56 AM »

This is a really thorny one, and I'll take Saeed Ajmal as an example.  He clearly can bowl within the laws of the game - for example, when he caused England so much trouble in the UAE two/three years back, he bowled with a kink in his arm but did not seem to be beyond the 15 degrees permitted.  But there are other times when it is patently obvious that he is chucking the hell out of it, and doing so on purpose.  As such, he needs to be given an ultimatum - either bowl properly or be banned.  Of course, lots of Asian members will now scream rascism, just as happened when I and others said the same of Sennanayake, who never even tried to keep his arm atraight - which is rubbish and insults everyones intelligence in an attempt through sturm und drang to allow their hero to continue, in effect, cheating.

League cricket is different, and I wish leagues took a more proactive approach.  Kew had a guy called Kidron Thomas play for them a few years back who finally got banned, which was seen as a shocking decision at the time - but only be people who had not faced his obviously chucked bouncer on a hard deck.
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Manormanic

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uknsaunders

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2014, 01:03:37 PM »

This is a really thorny one, and I'll take Saeed Ajmal as an example.  He clearly can bowl within the laws of the game - for example, when he caused England so much trouble in the UAE two/three years back, he bowled with a kink in his arm but did not seem to be beyond the 15 degrees permitted.  But there are other times when it is patently obvious that he is chucking the hell out of it, and doing so on purpose.  As such, he needs to be given an ultimatum - either bowl properly or be banned.  Of course, lots of Asian members will now scream rascism, just as happened when I and others said the same of Sennanayake, who never even tried to keep his arm atraight - which is rubbish and insults everyones intelligence in an attempt through sturm und drang to allow their hero to continue, in effect, cheating.

League cricket is different, and I wish leagues took a more proactive approach.  Kew had a guy called Kidron Thomas play for them a few years back who finally got banned, which was seen as a shocking decision at the time - but only be people who had not faced his obviously chucked bouncer on a hard deck.

UAE - Ajmal looked like he was chucking it even then. Sennanayake has been found to be clocking up 43 degree on the bendy arm scale. If they weren't doing it on purpose then why bowl in long sleeves?
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tim2000s

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2014, 01:12:47 PM »

http://www.espncricinfo.com/pakistan/content/current/story/779257.html

Or not, it would seem!

We shall see. He has a medical impediment that the high speed film and sensors didn't detect that means his arm is bent at 15 degrees and therefore he is only extending to 15 degrees, rather than the 29 that we all think, perhaps??? ???
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Manormanic

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Re: Chucking in cricket is acceptable because...
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2014, 04:02:27 PM »

UAE - Ajmal looked like he was chucking it even then. Sennanayake has been found to be clocking up 43 degree on the bendy arm scale. If they weren't doing it on purpose then why bowl in long sleeves?

I don't know - the Sky analysis seemed pretty convincing the other way!  Might youtube the footage and look again...
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