Topic: KP: The Autobiography Discussion [SPOILERS ENCLOSED] (Read 13695 times)

TangoWhiskey · « **Reply #30 on:** October 13, 2014, 09:54:52 AM »

Quote from: uknsaunders on October 13, 2014, 09:41:52 AM

I imagine Broad in particular is squirming at the book.

I also think it shows how difficult it is to handle talents like KP/Flintoff and the baggage that comes with them. I'm sure in many cases Flower/Strauss/Cook will ask what more they can do without setting one rule for one and a different rule for another.

Yeah, most of KP's main gripes even as written in the book seem to be that he is upset because he wasn't treated differently to other people. Weird how he thought that would make him look good in the book, obviously he doesnt see it that way.

ppccopener · « **Reply #31 on:** October 13, 2014, 10:00:53 AM »

opps sorry about that
if you look back thru English cricket's history, we have had many players who had exceptional ability, almost all of them fitted in the the teams requirements. Gower had a bust up with Gooch that did cost him the last 2 years of his career but most have not behaved like KP

It is also true that back them the managment would of been more flexible...such as Lamb and Co going out to Casino's late at night and pulling hamstrings on the walk back at 3am!!

KP I think did want to be treated differently, and there is only so much you can grant the guy. He was good for us, but not that good

tim2000s · « **Reply #32 on:** October 13, 2014, 10:55:42 AM »

The overall feeling I get from the book is that KP wanted someone to say to him "You are special, you are the most important" and then wanted to be treated as though this was the case, i.e. having allowances made because he was different.

I think the key thing I've taken so far is that Vaughan and Fletcher managed to make him feel like this without having to actually do anything about his demands, whereas Moores, Flower and Strauss took a different tack with him.

It all seems to come back down to the discussion we've had many times over, which is about man management and Vaughan being better at it than subsequent captains.

iand123 · « **Reply #33 on:** October 13, 2014, 12:00:31 PM »

Vaughan does admit he had KP at the start of his international career when he was a bit easier to deal with and the IPL to deal with.

I really am torn on this book and its contents. I feel that there has to be an element of truth to what KP is saying as without it he opens himself up for libel. I also read some parts of it and cringe at his behaviour. He cant remember exactly what was texted to the SA team members but retained a text message convo for a few people including Prior which he quotes verbatim in the book.

iand123 · « **Reply #34 on:** October 13, 2014, 12:07:33 PM »

One thing i am pretty sure on his just how odd an organisation the ECB is. Their handling of the fall out from the book has been comical. A lot of the stuff leaked about KP during his team with England was pretty poor too. KP could wind up an empty room but i can see why he'd be wary of the ECB and its staff if they were doing that. Just seems they tried to goad KP into doing something stupid and having a reason to call it quits with him. Which is odd really because youd have thought 2012 was exactly that.

I do love a conspiracy theory but who was it England were due to play that Winter, India in India. KP is a big crowd pleaser and just wonder how much "pressure" those lovely chaps at the BCCI put on the ECB to have him back in the team.

Leddster138 · « **Reply #35 on:** October 13, 2014, 12:24:35 PM »

Quote from: iand123 on October 13, 2014, 12:07:33 PM

One thing i am pretty sure on his just how odd an organisation the ECB is. Their handling of the fall out from the book has been comical. A lot of the stuff leaked about KP during his team with England was pretty poor too. KP could wind up an empty room but i can see why he'd be wary of the ECB and its staff if they were doing that. Just seems they tried to goad KP into doing something stupid and having a reason to call it quits with him. Which is odd really because youd have thought 2012 was exactly that.

I agree with this and unfortunately feel it adds weight to KPs - Flower wanted me out when he took over as coach. The conversation about Taylor was between him and Coach and then it's in the news on the Monday - how did that get out! The dossier with his list of misdemeanors being "leaked" is just another example of this. I'm still not going to pass judgement until the ECB have had their say but it just looks like a number poor decisions has been made throughout all of this by thinking more about managing a situation and damage control rather than thinking about the fans.

I liken the situation to that of Mourinho and Christiano at Real Madrid. They famously didn't get on (although the said they did in public) and they both have egos as big as a house but punters don't fork out �50 a match to watch Mourinho manage so the decision was easy. For the ECB it seems that, to save face, it was better to get rid of the player rather than go down that road again.

uknsaunders · « **Reply #36 on:** October 13, 2014, 12:37:54 PM »

I think Flower comes out of the book pretty badly. Given the ECB still employ him, I would be having a debrief with him asap and going over each allegation. Seems like he leaked stuff to the press and told some massive porkies about KP and his injuries. If the guy has been behaving in an "unethical" (can't think of a better word) way then he shouldn't be in a job. Things are never that black and white but I imagine the ECB haven't responded because some or most of the KP book is in fact true.

Bulldog Cricket · « **Reply #37 on:** October 13, 2014, 04:33:12 PM »

Probably couldn't get a more ethical man than Andy Flower.

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 13, 2014, 04:50:57 PM »

Quote from: Bulldog Cricket on October 13, 2014, 04:33:12 PM

Probably couldn't get a more ethical man than Andy Flower.

Flower is being shown up, the ECB are being shown up and it's about time. The guy took a good team to the top but this all proves he wasn't quite the man manger we were led to believe.

Given it's a pretty big part of being a coach/manager then I'd say he failed and shouldn't be kept on in his 'jobs for the boys' role.

Not saying KP hasn't made some of it up etc, just feels like we have a very stale ECB who wiled other their own even though they could be wrong.

Bulldog Cricket · « **Reply #39 on:** October 13, 2014, 08:50:27 PM »

stop it Aidey, I don't have any more prizes.

Have a read of this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/21359274

iand123 · « **Reply #40 on:** October 14, 2014, 09:24:21 AM »

Flower stood up to Robert Mugabe so i don't think his ethics can be questioned as a man. To me his professionalism can be questioned as a coach as if these private conversations between player and coach get straight into the media time and time again then Flower is part of that. That said it doesn't mean it was Flower who was actually leaking it but then again the ECB has to ask why it kept happening?

uknsaunders · « **Reply #41 on:** October 14, 2014, 09:52:24 AM »

I think Professionalism is a better word than ethical, I did say I was searching for the right term! Flower has indeed done some very brave things but yes if he was leaking stuff to the press then it lacks professionalism.

I guess it's his man management skills that seem to be the issue. I haven't read backwards to the Moores era but I imagine the alleged mis-management and team regime started with Moores, and Flower kept it going.

WalkingWicket37 · « **Reply #42 on:** October 14, 2014, 10:02:05 AM »

Quote from: uknsaunders on October 14, 2014, 09:52:24 AM

I guess it's his man management skills that seem to be the issue. I haven't read backwards to the Moores era but I imagine the alleged mis-management and team regime started with Moores, and Flower kept it going.

Spot on mate, well that's saved you a couple of chapters!

iand123 · « **Reply #43 on:** October 14, 2014, 10:13:35 AM »

I dont think KP says that Moores was a bad man manager but just a bit too full on and perhaps tried to over manage people if anything

jonwilson · « **Reply #44 on:** October 14, 2014, 03:45:29 PM »

One of the key themes in the book is his dis-satisfaction with both how Moores and Flowers had a tendency to micro manage players. From his perspective, this was distinctly different to Fletcher who encouraged personal responsibility. I am sure we all respond differently to different styles of management.

In some respects I enjoyed the book. It started off as an interesting read though too many chapters repetitive and saying the same thing as the chapter before.

Author Topic: KP: The Autobiography Discussion [SPOILERS ENCLOSED] (Read 13695 times)

TangoWhiskey

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ppccopener

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tim2000s

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iand123

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iand123

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Leddster138

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uknsaunders

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Bulldog Cricket

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ProCricketer1982

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Bulldog Cricket

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iand123

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uknsaunders

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WalkingWicket37

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iand123

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jonwilson

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