Topic: Cleft price differences (Read 14947 times)

hell4leather cricket · « **Reply #30 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:31:34 PM »

It must be worst if your a bedroom brand , buying in bats and sticker them up ,the profits are even smaller

Tom · « **Reply #31 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:36:54 PM »

Quote from: jamesisapayne on October 22, 2014, 09:30:38 PM

cannot for the life of me understand how these companies can charge �3-500 for a bat graded as G1 and as much as �120 less for a G2 bat that costs around a tenner-max less material wise.

Say the prices were closer, such as �200 for a G2 and �220 for a G1. How many G2's or lower grades would a manufacturer sell?

jamesisapayne · « **Reply #32 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:39:56 PM »

Quote from: Tom on October 22, 2014, 09:36:54 PM

Say the prices were closer, such as �200 for a G2 and �220 for a G1. How many G2's or lower grades would a manufacturer sell?

I understand your point but does that make it right Tom? And before I get flamed for saying that, I'm genuinely interested in what people think.

Tom · « **Reply #33 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:40:37 PM »

A manufacturer can only get their hands on a certain amount of top grade willow. Whilst the cost price isn't massively different, it's a case of supply and demand. You can't pitch your G1's at a bargain price, as you just don't have the plethora of G1 willow available.

hell4leather cricket · « **Reply #34 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:49:21 PM »

If a grade 1 is � 50 and grade 2 �35 times them by 6 for a finished bat ? grade 1 �300 , grade 2 �210

Beachcricket · « **Reply #35 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:51:35 PM »

Quote from: jamesisapayne on October 22, 2014, 09:30:38 PM

I was implying that charging astronomical prices for bats when the raw materials are relatively cheap, especially when a huge swathe of them are sent abroad for even cheaper labour costs is taking the michael out of the punter. I fully understand labour costs, overheads etc but cannot for the life of me understand how these companies can charge �3-500 for a bat graded as G1 and as much as �120 less for a G2 bat that costs around a tenner-max less material wise.

Then you need to find out if the bat you want is made in the UK and accept that the perception people have is that a clean cleft will perform better, this therefore affects the way in which the various grades are priced.

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #36 on:** October 22, 2014, 09:51:52 PM »

Grade 1 clefts are about 4-7% of an order and like has been posted there is a min order to even be able to get G1 clefts. Fact.
Grading in the industry has no rhyme or reason and is all pretty much done by the pod shaver or the brand owner. We have all seen companies charge anything from �150 (solitaire) to �700 Gray Nicolls and as has been mentioned there are many reasons to explain how these prices are reached. Normally the 1man band has lower priced bats but he has just himself to look after. When you employ people have premises etc it gets 10 fold more expensive. Try renting a business premises for less than �10k per annum plus rates etc. that's minus money before you even order you clefts, grips, decals etc.

At the end of the day it's all business end of. If you can buy a low end cleft G4 etc and market it too a market that's happy to pay x amount and that gives you for example 800% markup take your hat off to that man don't knock him. If you choose to pay that's your choice and can't be knocked for that, the great thing about opinions is there just that there is no wright or wrong. In fact many admire a brand that does just this and I also admire the business brain behind this. Do I agree with it? Well yes actually we all aim for the best be it the best bat to the best from life so do how you see fit. As long as your honest in what you do and offer than that would be good enough. Finally don't like it or agree find a brand you do agree with but respect the fact someone is aiming to make a living.

The Palmist · « **Reply #37 on:** October 22, 2014, 10:06:39 PM »

End of the day no one is being forced to buy anything. And the markups margins etc are like any other business.

I am certain there are people who purchase G3 4 5 clefts and sell it as 1 2 3 etc. Now the maker can argue that he/she has their own grading system. Does that mean they are taking the michelle or just exploiting the lack of industry standards.

Average punter is there to pay everyones bills but that is not limited to cricket, it is a fact of life.

Interesting thread but probably won't end well.

procricket · « **Reply #38 on:** October 22, 2014, 10:24:11 PM »

For years I have been on a crusade as I though people where beig ripped off plain and simple I thought how can batmaker a charge 180 when batmaker b charges 320.

I know the awnser I always did people mention mark up and overhead there all true.

How much does a car cost to make raw meterials

How much do your nike air cost raw meterials

I have no issue with price for people who make bats my issue is with brands who charge the earth for a bat which is made in the same place as another yet 100 pound more.

If you want to make serious money stay away from the industry do you think the owners of many brands are rich they are not.

For people intrested start a brand up see how much you can really make for small brands it beer tokens holiday money for brands with full time workers it mortgages food kids

You have full time you have spare time more clefts better choice

Dan W · « **Reply #39 on:** October 23, 2014, 12:24:17 PM »

Quote from: ItsJustCricket on October 22, 2014, 09:03:09 PM

I have found this an interesting thread, but wasn't going to comment, but that phrase "taking the michael" has really resonated with me. It implies that bat makers are greedy and ripping people off just to make a quick buck. Believe me, as someone who has worked in the cricket industry full time for three years now, I know how competitive it is and how little money there is to be made. I also know many of the bat makers personally and they all do what they do for the love and passion they have for the graft. These people are anything but money grabbers! But they have bills and mortgages to pay, and in many cases, families to feed, which is easier said than done in this industry, believe me. Is it "taking the michael" to try and keep their livelihood going?

Maybe quit your day job and try and work full time in this industry for a few years and see how you get on by selling all your bats at sub �200 before making such a dig...

'Taking the michael' may be taken out of context here - But...If you imagine a bat can have a Value for Money grading, then it's an interesting and worthwhile discussion to evaluate where on a given range/brand/market a particular bat sits (in respect of VFM) especially to those for which VFM is a prime purchase decision (not everyone is hung on VFM - it's a factor for everyone I suspect, though, for example, no-one buying M&H or the Laver or Newbury sillymoney bats is particularly bothered about VFM).

Outside of a certain VFM boundary, it IS though fair for an individual to analyse a particular product and suggest that someone is 'taking the michael', however rare that may be.

Frankly, to suggest the whole industry is full of integrity and the idea of pulling fast ones or conning people (or, indeed taking the michael), is somewhat niave. That's why it's always important (IMO) to consider the individuals involved - without sounding like a smoke blowing session, most of the retailers on here (esp IJC

) have always done me well and I'd infer a high level of trust in them (Indeed, it's a supplemental (if not easy!) impact of sponsoring this forum in that you've come under the closest scrutiny of the nerdiest of bat owners - and survived/flourished - what better (implicit) advert for your business?!)

However, when someone releases a bat that costs 4 figures, or prices it as such that they justify it with words to the effect of "I've got 22 rich dumb Americans willing to pay for this range, who cares what you lot think", then I'd suggest they were taking more than the michael (and not just in VFM terms)!

ItsJustCricket · « **Reply #40 on:** October 23, 2014, 01:55:45 PM »

Quote from: Dan W on October 23, 2014, 12:24:17 PM

'Taking the michael' may be taken out of context here - But...If you imagine a bat can have a Value for Money grading, then it's an interesting and worthwhile discussion to evaluate where on a given range/brand/market a particular bat sits (in respect of VFM) especially to those for which VFM is a prime purchase decision (not everyone is hung on VFM - it's a factor for everyone I suspect, though, for example, no-one buying M&H or the Laver or Newbury sillymoney bats is particularly bothered about VFM).

Outside of a certain VFM boundary, it IS though fair for an individual to analyse a particular product and suggest that someone is 'taking the michael', however rare that may be.

Frankly, to suggest the whole industry is full of integrity and the idea of pulling fast ones or conning people (or, indeed taking the michael), is somewhat niave. That's why it's always important (IMO) to consider the individuals involved - without sounding like a smoke blowing session, most of the retailers on here (esp IJC ) have always done me well and I'd infer a high level of trust in them (Indeed, it's a supplemental (if not easy!) impact of sponsoring this forum in that you've come under the closest scrutiny of the nerdiest of bat owners - and survived/flourished - what better (implicit) advert for your business?!)

However, when someone releases a bat that costs 4 figures, or prices it as such that they justify it with words to the effect of "I've got 22 rich dumb Americans willing to pay for this range, who cares what you lot think", then I'd suggest they were taking more than the michael (and not just in VFM terms)!

I agree 100%, Dan. My post had nothing to do with the Newbery Cenkos! Same applies to the Gray-Nicolls Legend. I should have made that more clear. I have just noticed a lot of threads recently where people have gawped at a �300+ price tag for a bat , and this is where I have issues. �300 in modern day terms is a very good price for a top grade cricket bat, especially if it is made in England. Even �400 is becoming normal nowadays. The willow merchants are increasing their prices significantly year after year and with all the other costs being what they are, and knowing from experience how difficult it is to earn a living in this industry, I worry if customers feel they are being ripped off for perfectly reasonable and competitive prices that are there to preserve the homegrown UK cricket industry rather than lining wallets...

Seniorplayer · « **Reply #41 on:** October 23, 2014, 02:18:17 PM »

Find this thread interesting
Just to pickup on what Paul (IJC) as written i had a conversation with a respected batmaker this summer regarding salaries in different trades he told me he spends around 45 hours a week in the workshop and struggles to earn �300 a week profit.
Also there is little mark up on clefts below grade 3 when sold as such.
And hardly an profit in boys bats.

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #42 on:** October 23, 2014, 02:23:10 PM »

I'd imagine like everything it comes down to each individual company. So Paul at IJC obviously has to buy stock, pay rent etc etc. Someone who maybe owns the land already wouldn't have those over heads. So in theory, could charge a lot less but earn the same profit. It'll impact a small brands profit quite a bit I'd imagine if they buy in bats it'll cost them more than someone making them themselves, so have to charge more etc.

magicman84 · « **Reply #43 on:** October 23, 2014, 05:47:41 PM »

I can remember paying around �250 for a top of the range newbery 17 years ago. With the increase in fixed costs on bat makers/shops well above inflation in that time, �400 for a top of the range newbery now seems very fair.

trypewriter · « **Reply #44 on:** October 23, 2014, 06:08:19 PM »

Quote from: hell4leather cricket on October 22, 2014, 09:21:48 PM

A very interesting topic reading different peoples views , I have pressed 80 clefts this week ,8 are stressed or cracked during the pressing process , 10% are now wasted and lost through a natural act of god ,who pays for them ? When we buy trees or clefts it's a gamble what's in there , sometimes we win sometimes we lose

Precisely my point - and it still costs the same as a good cleft (power etc.) to find that out.

Author Topic: Cleft price differences (Read 14947 times)

hell4leather cricket

Re: Cleft price differences

Tom

Re: Cleft price differences

jamesisapayne

Re: Cleft price differences

Tom

Re: Cleft price differences

hell4leather cricket

Re: Cleft price differences

Beachcricket

Re: Cleft price differences

SOULMAN1012

Re: Cleft price differences

The Palmist

Re: Cleft price differences

procricket

Re: Cleft price differences

Dan W

Re: Cleft price differences

ItsJustCricket

Re: Cleft price differences

Seniorplayer

Re: Cleft price differences

ProCricketer1982

Re: Cleft price differences

magicman84

Re: Cleft price differences

trypewriter

Re: Cleft price differences