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[arsenal123]

121 wickets at 22 suggests not.  I'd hardly call South Africa big swinging conditions.

Stuart Clark's 93 wickets at 23 wasn't too shabby either.  He barely got above 80.

[uknsaunders]

I looked at the Derbyshire squad briefly and it had 28 players in 2014. Of which 2 were overseas, 3 over 30 and 9 where 22 or under. Assuming these 22 years olds were starting their careers out of Uni that leaves 14 between 23-30 and probably nearing the peaks of there careers and eligible for an England call up (lets assume England have little interest in very young players/30+ apart from the odd exception). That's just 50% of the squad might have a realistic chance of playing for England through a combination of factors. While it's great that Derbyshire are investing so much in home grown talent, it does highlight some of the issues we face. In one match taken at random, think it was Essex, they have 7 players over 30,overseas or 22 and under. That leaves 4 who might be viewed at England possibilities given good form. Multiply that across the counties and realistically you are looking at 70-80 players who might get picked in total. I'm painting a bleak picture and some counties will have more England prospects, Yorks/Durham to name two. You do need experience from guys in there 30's and overseas players but maybe the crack down on Kolpaks has just led to an increase in youth being thrown in. This leads to a decline in standards that was inevitable for Div 2 in particular as better players migrate to Div 1 (didn't Leics lose 3 players over the winter to Div 1 sides?). FC Cricket is perhaps more of a nursery, than a finishing school.

[Manormanic]

Or are you saying that Division 2 is a nursery for division one cricket?

[edge]

Leicestershire are worth keeping just for the sheer amount of players they produce that play for England/div1. One simple change I'd make would be to allow 2 overseas players. Only one spot per team, but over the whole championship should make a significant difference.

One thing I think there definitely needs to be more of is Eng v Eng A warmup matches! The only time we've done it the selectors saw the light and in came Kieswetter and Lumb to help us win the t20. Imagine if they'd arranged it before the WC, how differently might things have gone if one or two of Stokes/Roy/Billings/Wood had taken England apart and been asked to step in and play the same in the WC.

[Manormanic]

Possibly so - it always used to be the last Test trial before the serious stuff started.  I prefer a three or four headed regional series myself - North, Midlands, South-East and South West.

Imagine a game between a North side consisting of Lyth, Lees, Ballance, Stoneman, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Rashid, Plunkett, Brooks and Anderson (Borthwick, Footitt, Wood, Gale and Kerrigan don't even make the side) against a Midlands XI of Hales, Ali, Trott, Bell, Taylor, Samit Patel, Eckersley, Willey, Broad, Wright, Rankin...

[uknsaunders]

Or are you saying that Division 2 is a nursery for division one cricket?

I guess so if you look at it that way!

Which I suppose highlights the problem. If Div 2, isn't a finishing school for international players then what is it's purpose. For that matter, what's the purpose of those counties. Are they simply a feeder league? There are some good sides that yo-yo between Divisions so it's not black and white. However, those teams at the bottom of Div 2 are now in a constant struggle for money and to compete with the top counties.

[uknsaunders]

Possibly so - it always used to be the last Test trial before the serious stuff started.  I prefer a three or four headed regional series myself - North, Midlands, South-East and South West.

Imagine a game between a North side consisting of Lyth, Lees, Ballance, Stoneman, Root, Bairstow, Stokes, Rashid, Plunkett, Brooks and Anderson (Borthwick, Footitt, Wood, Gale and Kerrigan don't even make the side) against a Midlands XI of Hales, Ali, Trott, Bell, Taylor, Samit Patel, Eckersley, Willey, Broad, Wright, Rankin...

That's a great example of the problem. We have plenty of talented cricketers, but not all playing together against a similar standard oppo. You could probably make 6 teams of players worth England looking at, but go much lower and guys ready for international cricket starts to thin out.

[KIPPERS]

Just a small example of whats wrong with England cricket management.
The Aussies have been talking up their new generation of fast bowlers for years. They broke down fell over got injured. But they were nursed thru it well managed encouraged and are now coming good. We have just as much talent around but what happens.Mills at Essex is constantly criticized for being erratic (id settle for erratic at 95mph) Finn has his confidence and technique torn apart because he bowled the occasional no ball at 93 mph (so what) Overton "o he's not ready yet. Stokes bit of a hot head. When England wanted to get a bowler to give them practice against Johnson they Brought Mills in to bowl at them in the nets. Ummm maybe they should have stuck him in the team if he's that quick Doh! Get these old farts in suits the hell out of the ECB and take away Moores with his clipboard video analysis and hours of colts practice drills. Just look at the ECB web site England practice looks like a chance to fly video. These guys (The Group sic.) are bloody adults you Morons.

[Stuey]

Just a small example of whats wrong with England cricket management.
The Aussies have been talking up their new generation of fast bowlers for years. They broke down fell over got injured. But they were nursed thru it well managed encouraged and are now coming good. We have just as much talent around but what happens.Mills at Essex is constantly criticized for being erratic (id settle for erratic at 95mph) Finn has his confidence and technique torn apart because he bowled the occasional no ball at 93 mph (so what) Overton "o he's not ready yet. Stokes bit of a hot head. When England wanted to get a bowler to give them practice against Johnson they Brought Mills in to bowl at them in the nets. Ummm maybe they should have stuck him in the team if he's that quick Doh! Get these old farts in suits the hell out of the ECB and take away Moores with his clipboard video analysis and hours of colts practice drills. Just look at the ECB web site England practice looks like a chance to fly video. These guys (The Group sic.) are bloody adults you Morons.

I agree, it's very simple to manage England, stick a round peg in a round hole. For the WC you need attacking opening bats pick of Roy, Wright, Hales, Lumb, you need a couple of quicks Mills, Overton etc etc. Let the oppo worry about what these players can do, not us worry about what they can't do. If at the end of the WC we haven't won it at least as a coach you can say I picked the right type of players for the right roles, we just weren't good enough, but we had a good crack at it. Not I've got to check the data, that's just suicide. 

[ppccopener]

Moores post defeat/elimination sky interview reffered again to 'going back to review the data'. England one day cricket is back where it was somewhere around the mid 1990's..Some of us have seen and heard the same things before, we have made no progress and that's the real sad thing. I would much rather us have a go and if it doesn't work at least some younger guys have got experience and will be better for it.

Downton's interview on the ECB website just shows how deep rooted the problem is.

[Buzz]

Great stats from Andy Bull in the guradian's Spin today...
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/10/the-spin-cricket-england-world-cup-peter-moores-ecb

Moores’ record first time around was played 73, won 29, lost 32, drawn 8. Add in his results in the last year (played 36, won 13, lost 21, drawn 2) and you find he now has the worst record of any of the four coaches the team have had, worse even than David Lloyd’s in the days before central contracts. Not only that, Moores’ record is, in fact, worse than those of every other current coach of a Test-playing nation. West Indies haven’t yet appointed a permanent replacement for Ottis Gibson, but the win/loss ratios of the eight remaining coaches range from 2.625 for Darren Lehmann down to 0.795 for Waqar Younis. Moores comes in just a lick below that at 0.792. Right now, “a look at the data”, to borrow the man’s own phrase, shows that judged by his win/loss ratio Moores is both the least successful coach in England’s history and the least successful coach on the international circuit.

[KIPPERS]

I'm sure they will be able to "take the positives" out of that data

[uknsaunders]

Great stats from Andy Bull in the guradian's Spin today...
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/10/the-spin-cricket-england-world-cup-peter-moores-ecb

Moores’ record first time around was played 73, won 29, lost 32, drawn 8. Add in his results in the last year (played 36, won 13, lost 21, drawn 2) and you find he now has the worst record of any of the four coaches the team have had, worse even than David Lloyd’s in the days before central contracts. Not only that, Moores’ record is, in fact, worse than those of every other current coach of a Test-playing nation. West Indies haven’t yet appointed a permanent replacement for Ottis Gibson, but the win/loss ratios of the eight remaining coaches range from 2.625 for Darren Lehmann down to 0.795 for Waqar Younis. Moores comes in just a lick below that at 0.792. Right now, “a look at the data”, to borrow the man’s own phrase, shows that judged by his win/loss ratio Moores is both the least successful coach in England’s history and the least successful coach on the international circuit.

I did wonder when Moores record would be looked at. Let's not forget his numbers have been boosted by playing NZ in transition back in 2008 and a rubbish India last year - at home. He has only played 1 series away from home, losing to Sri Lanka. He also lost in the UK to SA in 2008 and Sri Lanka last year. That's played 5, won 2 lost 3, of which 4 were at home. I don't buy the whole "in transition" thing either. I don't remember the 2008 team being particular weak and last years team was good enough to see off India. Yes we had some new players last year but Moores inflicted that on England as the price for KP being removed. His one day record at county level wasn't great but he was allowed full control of the team. Had a ODI coach been appointed separately I doubt he would even had a look in. The whole KP/Moores re-appointment smacked of panic and Downton should be taking his share of the blame.

[KIPPERS]

Chaps please, according to the ECB he is the "outstanding coach of his generation"

[ProCricketer1982]

It's been 24+ hours now.. Why has there been no sackings??