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[beaver5]

Interesting to note that Cookie will probably go past Viv Richards' career runs in this test, and from 10 less tests.

Not saying he's better, just saying that whilst in a slump - he's hardly rubbish.

That maybe, but do you remember any of them. Cook could average 100 and have scored fifty 100's but he's no entertainer and dull to watch. His name shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as King Viv!

[ProCricketer1982]

That maybe, but do you remember any of them. Cook could average 100 and have scored fifty 100's but he's no entertainer and dull to watch. His name shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as King Viv!
[/quote


He should also have been dropped already, but he's the ECB and their followers poster boy. Fall in behind team ethic

[Giraffe208]

I love test cricket but this is so boring!

[csnew]

Excellent stuff from West Indies on a flat pitch.
England can't have any complaints given they had the best of the bowling and batting conditions. Should have bowled them out cheaper and scored a lot more.
 
A leg spinner or a left arm spinner might have been useful. Jordan has been pretty useless as he was in the first test.

Think the umpires have been pretty pathetic allowing England to have meetings and drinks every over. Get on with the game!

[ProCricketer1982]

I love test cricket but this is so boring!

Nah, it's good test cricket. Batsmen have to be watchful, bowlers have to show discipline. Would like a slightly better wicket ideally but this at least means it's not a slog fest

Tbh, a high class spinner would do well on it.. Neither team has them so it's being shown up

[Gerry SA]

I've always rated young Kraigg Brathwaite and it's good to see the Kid doing well. Still only 22 and has bagged 4 Test hundreds.

England's attack is rubbish though. Lacking a 150kph fast bowler and a proper spinner. This suggestion that Moeen Ali can bowl is a joke. Getting wickets vs India is like getting runs vs India eg meaningless.

[potzy248]

I've always rated young Kraigg Brathwaite and it's good to see the Kid doing well. Still only 22 and has bagged 4 Test hundreds.

England's attack is rubbish though. Lacking a 150kph fast bowler and a proper spinner. This suggestion that Moeen Ali can bowl is a joke. Getting wickets vs India is like getting runs vs India eg meaningless.

Most test nations are lacking a 150kph bowler and descent spinner. NZ have descent fast bowlers but no 150's and no spinner. Australia have a couple pushing the 150 mark but still search for someone half as good as Warne. SA opening bowlers are losing speed every time I see them, but are still world class, and have they never had a descent spinner. India have descent enough spinners but have always lacked pace (Aaron et al are getting there).

Teams are still looking for that "Warne" spinner. You only have to look at how many spinners Australia, NZ, SA, England have been through over the last  decade. There have been a couple of notable mentions: Swann and Vettori, Herath and Narine.
Even though Lyon has not been great I commend Australia for sticking with him. It seems like new spinners get a few tests to prove their worth otherwise they are discarded.
Whether England stick with Ali or not, they need to settle on one spinner and put their trust in him.

[Giraffe208]

Nah, it's good test cricket. Batsmen have to be watchful, bowlers have to show discipline. Would like a slightly better wicket ideally but this at least means it's not a slog fest

Tbh, a high class spinner would do well on it.. Neither team has them so it's being shown up

I know what you mean about the approach of the batsmen but the pitch just doesn't match the teams on show. You are spot on about the spinner situation and I guess this is why I'm finding it so boring to watch. There is assistance in the pitch but without a good spinner on show there is no major threat to batsmen. I know Ali had a good summer last year but he is not the same bowler. He's bowling so flat and more often than not short aswell. Why oh why has England's approach of using specialists gone out of the window in all formats! What is wrong with picking 11 roles in the team and then filling those with names rather than filling names and attaching roles to them.

[ProCricketer1982]

I know what you mean about the approach of the batsmen but the pitch just doesn't match the teams on show. You are spot on about the spinner situation and I guess this is why I'm finding it so boring to watch. There is assistance in the pitch but without a good spinner on show there is no major threat to batsmen. I know Ali had a good summer last year but he is not the same bowler. He's bowling so flat and more often than not short aswell. Why oh why has England's approach of using specialists gone out of the window in all formats! What is wrong with picking 11 roles in the team and then filling those with names rather than filling names and attaching roles to them.

eng have always be scared of 'only' having 6-7 batsmen. They love having all those bits and pieces guys. Unfortunately unless they are true all rounders (botham, flintoff etc) it's pointless.

NZ have Milne who is 150kph isn't he? Henry is nearly there or there too in the World Cup I seem to remember (happy to be corrected)

[potzy248]

eng have always be scared of 'only' having 6-7 batsmen. They love having all those bits and pieces guys. Unfortunately unless they are true all rounders (botham, flintoff etc) it's pointless.

NZ have Milne who is 150kph isn't he? Henry is nearly there or there too in the World Cup I seem to remember (happy to be corrected)

Milne can crack 150kph every now and then. Henry? I don't think he's ever cracked 150 tbh. Milne's always injured too.

[jamielsn15]

It goes back to England having a long tail In the 90s, Fletcher has always wanted his bowlers to be able to bat a bit and he probably has a point. Ali needs more bowling, that's what swann has been saying on TMS and, to be fair, I'd take his opinion on spinners. He really rates him.

As a country who have always been looking for the next botham, Flintoff, etc, we may be guilty of trying to shoe horn too many all rounders in to the side, instead of bowlers who can bat a bit, or too many of the same type of  bowlers. It's obvious that the lifeless tracks that have been designed for the windies to draw matches on are not suited to the four quicks we've selected. Should've picked Rashid...

[Gerry SA]

Most test nations are lacking a 150kph bowler and descent spinner. NZ have descent fast bowlers but no 150's and no spinner. Australia have a couple pushing the 150 mark but still search for someone half as good as Warne. SA opening bowlers are losing speed every time I see them, but are still world class, and have they never had a descent spinner. India have descent enough spinners but have always lacked pace (Aaron et al are getting there).

Teams are still looking for that "Warne" spinner. You only have to look at how many spinners Australia, NZ, SA, England have been through over the last  decade. There have been a couple of notable mentions: Swann and Vettori, Herath and Narine.
Even though Lyon has not been great I commend Australia for sticking with him. It seems like new spinners get a few tests to prove their worth otherwise they are discarded.
Whether England stick with Ali or not, they need to settle on one spinner and put their trust in him.

Totally missed my point. New Zealand might not have anyone bowling 150kph, but they have two left armers. Two very different left armers as well might I add. Something different for the batsmen to think about.
South Africa have a couple of promising spinners it's not like we are back to the days of Paul Harris and Morkel adds the heat with his 150kph short stuff.

Whereas England always go in with these 4 medium paced dobbers. All right armers. No variety. Plunkett was supposedly bowling 145/150kph yet he's just sitting on the bench...

[Gerry SA]

And let's be honest about Moeen Ali, England jumped on the hype created by Pakistani chucker Saeed Ajmal. Both played county cricket together and Ajmal was bigging him up. Well now Ajmal is a joke and Ali's finding out that unless you play the hapless Indians it's hard work earning wickets at Test level.

[Seniorplayer]

eng have always be scared of 'only' having 6-7 batsmen. They love having all those bits and pieces guys. Unfortunately unless they are true all rounders (botham, flintoff etc) it's pointless.

NZ have Milne who is 150kph isn't he? Henry is nearly there or there too in the World Cup I seem to remember (happy to be corrected)

you are stop on
Ever since Botham England have been trying to find  another great all all rounder and ended up with picking players who were not good enough for the role  as you say we had Flintoff but unfortunately has we know he had among other injuries knee problems. Until there  is someone playing  County cricket with genuine all rounder potential  The  selectors now  need to to forget picking these bits and pieces players

[Manormanic]

Totally missed my point. New Zealand might not have anyone bowling 150kph, but they have two left armers. Two very different left armers as well might I add. Something different for the batsmen to think about.
South Africa have a couple of promising spinners it's not like we are back to the days of Paul Harris and Morkel adds the heat with his 150kph short stuff.

Whereas England always go in with these 4 medium paced dobbers. All right armers. No variety. Plunkett was supposedly bowling 145/150kph yet he's just sitting on the bench...

This is kind of what I've been saying the last 18 months or so - it isn't that England don't have a good attack, they are just far too conservative to actually fiddle around and work out what it should be.  In general terms:

Mid 80s right arm swingers - Anderson, Woakes, Jordan, Broad, Brooks, Wood, Stokes, Onions
Around 90 - Plunkett, Finn, Overton
Left arm gas - Mills, Footitt
Left arm not quite so gas - Topley, Willey
Leg Spin - Rashid
Left Arm spin - Panesar
Off Breaks - Ali, Riley

Should be able, with a bit of experimentation, to cobble together a decent, varied attack out of that...but instead you will almost exclusively get four of the first category plus Ali to shore up the batting (though his batting average is closer to Nathan Lyon's than Joe Root's...)