KP - the maverick's return?
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jamielsn15

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #180 on: May 15, 2015, 07:40:01 AM »

Nick hoult article in the telegraph on line.
Worth a read-always good to get to the truth.
Article on line now for kp and non kp supporters!
Straussy has taken a few bullets in the crossfire it seems!!! :)


It is a good read, here's the link - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11606944/England-door-still-open-for-Kevin-Pietersen.html

It will no doubt fuel the campaign against Cook and wishing him a run of poor scores and losses to get him out asap.  Can't help thinking that's a bit like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die - surely you get behind your nation's team no matter what?

I'm glad the personal abuse targeted at Cook's family has come to light.  I knew about this - my wife's friend's husband (keep up!) went to school with Cook and is a lifelong friend of his.  He said that the content of that abuse was sickening and horrible.  You only have to see some of the abuse some people get on Twitter to have an idea.

I think it also puts Cook's attitude towards KP in another context.  It's one thing getting abuse yourself.  But imagine what it's like for your family to receive death threats and of threats of personal and sexual abuse?  KP and Piers Morgan are on Twitter by the hour and would have been fully aware of these tweets being sent en masse.  Not once did they come out and ask the Twitterati to stop abusing Cook's family.  Not once did they show contrition towards Cook and his family, publicly or privately.

Cook chose not to report the Tweets or go public with the abuse that was targeted at his family.  I can't help feeling if it were the other way around that KP and his pitbull Morgan would have been re-tweeting everything to gain favour with the public - gaining total martyrdom.  Why didn't Cook report them if this happened?  Perhaps he's putting the team first rather than his own personal interests.

We can argue about stats, age, fitness, team ethics and values, respect, trust all day long - 12 pages on one thread prove that.  But knowing this, I can totally understand why Cook wouldn't want to share a dressing room with a man who stood by and allowed personal attacks on his family to go unchecked. 
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ppccopener

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #181 on: May 15, 2015, 08:03:58 AM »

those that use social media can never win again those who don't
anyone can essentially say anything about another person with little or no comeback it seems, Twitter is rife with all sorts of vile stuff.

Piers Morgan got personal a long time ago and it's a war or words he will always win

hopefully he is not seen as the face of England supporters globally!

Anyone who has watched Cook over the last couple of months would not be surprised if he threw the towel in anyway, whatever anyone thinks about him or his form, it's got to be wearing him out.

We have 14 test matches crammed in to a short space of time coming up-if I was Strauss I may be thinking of taking him out of the firing line

Which creates another problem/solution(depending on which camp you are in) as it could be a way back for Pieterson.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #182 on: May 15, 2015, 09:04:02 AM »

It is a good read, here's the link - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/kevinpietersen/11606944/England-door-still-open-for-Kevin-Pietersen.html

It will no doubt fuel the campaign against Cook and wishing him a run of poor scores and losses to get him out asap.  Can't help thinking that's a bit like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die - surely you get behind your nation's team no matter what?



No, you don't just support blindly. Otherwise you are exploited (think what the ECB do and what football clubs are doing !) and as shown, by strauss's actions (as well as the ECB previously) they lie and do not tell the truth.. Cook is not this team man the ECB have promoted and this yet again demonstrates it. Unfortunately, he public is now so split over it all he will be sacked by the end of 2015 at the very least. Unfortunately, he may have cost England fans the chance to see one of its best ever batsmen purely because of his ego.
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skip1973

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #183 on: May 15, 2015, 09:11:26 AM »

Fairweather fan is a term that comes to mind with you pc1982
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jamielsn15

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #184 on: May 15, 2015, 10:02:53 AM »

No, you don't just support blindly. Otherwise you are exploited (think what the ECB do and what football clubs are doing !) and as shown, by strauss's actions (as well as the ECB previously) they lie and do not tell the truth.. Cook is not this team man the ECB have promoted and this yet again demonstrates it. Unfortunately, he public is now so split over it all he will be sacked by the end of 2015 at the very least. Unfortunately, he may have cost England fans the chance to see one of its best ever batsmen purely because of his ego.

Are you exploited if you are aware of the bias and slant that organisations consistently put on press releases, etc. yet by choosing to read many differing opinions on the same subject you arrive at your own conclusions?  Take the election as an example - so many of my Facebook friends simply regurgitate biased press articles as fact.  Last I checked evidence wasn't given in a court of law along the lines of "we submit Daily Mail article of 1st May 2015 as evidence of..."!  I would much rather consider both sides of an argument (as I have done here) and reach my own conclusions.  I certainly don't take everything I read as being primary sourced.

I have a lot of empathy for Cook - if he had gone public over the abuse his family received does that make him more of a team man?  Or was he trying to avoid heaping further distraction on the team?  Truth is, I don't know.  But nor does anyone else on here. 

Just because you have an opinion, it doesn't make you right.  In this specific case I'm coming from a privileged position of knowing that this happened.  I've heard about the impact it's had on him and his family.  Maybe you're a better person than me, but if my wife and children were receiving personal, targeted abuse from hundreds of people that KP and Morgan refused to condemn (by the way that's why the ECB directly referred to Morgan in a press release last year), I wouldn't want to be in the same city as him, let alone the same dressing room.  Can anyone here honestly say they could rise above that?

I didn't agree with Ed Smith initially when he said on Five Live that social media is not a fair reflection of public opinion (though I did see his point re; the Election).  But the more I read and hear from respected journalists and ex players (Botham included), what is becoming clear is that its a much more even split on KP than twitter/Facebook/this forum would have everyone believe.

I'll sleep easy knowing my opinion is based on balanced reading and a considered thought process and I'm not trying to make the 'evidence' fit my opinion.
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FattusCattus

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #185 on: May 15, 2015, 10:12:47 AM »

There's a lot of talk on here of the flawed integrity of Graves, Harrison, Strauss et al.

How about the flawed integrity that KP has frequently shown throughout his career?

I say it's karma - what goes around, comes around.
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uknsaunders

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #186 on: May 15, 2015, 10:22:37 AM »

http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/around-the-houses/


I don't agree with the personal abuse Cook is getting. However, if he is the only person stopping England picking there best XI and let's suppose KP is in that team or thereabouts, then he shouldn't be England Captain. What he is doing is using his personal bias to hold back his team. While a captain has to be happy with his team, it should be solely on merit. If I was Strauss I would of told him to resign if he didn't want the best XI on the pitch, and that's the message I would of given the cricketing public - we pick the best XI and play cricket from now on, and Cook didn't agree with that philosophy.

I listened to the five live podcast and it's clear now why Vaughan rang up the ECB and told them no thanks after a couple of days thinking it over - he didnt feel he could do the job on those terms. He referred to the role Strauss has as a "figure head", "public face". What he meant was take the stick for others.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2015, 10:26:13 AM by uknsaunders »
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ppccopener

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #187 on: May 15, 2015, 10:27:37 AM »

There's a lot of talk on here of the flawed integrity of Graves, Harrison, Strauss et al.

How about the flawed integrity that KP has frequently shown throughout his career?

I say it's karma - what goes around, comes around.
Amen to that Cat

that rhymes! :)
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RageofKlugman

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #188 on: May 15, 2015, 10:29:15 AM »

There's a lot of talk on here of the flawed integrity of Graves, Harrison, Strauss et al.

How about the flawed integrity that KP has frequently shown throughout his career?

I say it's karma - what goes around, comes around.

Spot on. It's a case that nobody emerges from with a huge amount of credit, KP included.
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jamielsn15

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #189 on: May 15, 2015, 10:55:37 AM »

It's a disaster all round.  Lessons are;

1. Don't burn your bridges (ECB and KP)
2. Don't write a book until you've retired
3. Don't have a mate called Piers
4. Recognise a second chance (Cook insisting on KP's return in 2012).
5. Take that second chance
6. Take a close look at what's happened to an NGB that two years ago was the template for successful PR and public engagement.  That's gone horribly wrong.
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jamielsn15

Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #190 on: May 15, 2015, 11:12:16 AM »

http://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/around-the-houses/


I don't agree with the personal abuse Cook is getting. However, if he is the only person stopping England picking there best XI and let's suppose KP is in that team or thereabouts, then he shouldn't be England Captain. What he is doing is using his personal bias to hold back his team. While a captain has to be happy with his team, it should be solely on merit. If I was Strauss I would of told him to resign if he didn't want the best XI on the pitch, and that's the message I would of given the cricketing public - we pick the best XI and play cricket from now on, and Cook didn't agree with that philosophy.

I listened to the five live podcast and it's clear now why Vaughan rang up the ECB and told them no thanks after a couple of days thinking it over - he didnt feel he could do the job on those terms. He referred to the role Strauss has as a "figure head", "public face". What he meant was take the stick for others.


I don't disagree with you.  Absolutely you should have your best team out there, but not at any cost.  But by allowing KP back after so many misdemeanour's, what are you saying to the rest of the players?  Stay in another hotel on tour if you like, KP did.  Not getting on this flight? OK mate, no worries, just make sure you turn up for practice tomorrow...

Don't want to drive the sponsors Jag?  You rock up in your ferrari mate, Jag will pull the plug for breach of contract, there's a couple of million quid gone, but don't worry, you're happy.

You gobbing off again about your team mates lack of ability in the dressing room while they're out there batting?  No problem, can I get you a foot stall while you do?

You want to sit back and watch the skipper, his wife and nipper take sickening abuse, that is more likely than not affecting his form?  Yeah, no worries.

It works both ways too - don't assume that no action was taken internally for the Twitter parody account abusing KP...

People like Sir Clive Woodward and Sir Dave Brailsford talk about the thousands of little improvements that amount to significant gains in sport - that's why they were so successful, nothing was left to chance.  I've seen both of them do keynote speeches.  The emphasis they place on team cohesion and the importance of group dynamics is massive.  You start to allow little transgressions and it spreads. 

I do think the ECB have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.  Do what Vaughan said - parachute him in if needed for home tests.  I'd consider that -no more than 7-8 days with the team, buying into the core values and ethics.  There's no way I'd take him on tour though. 

I know we were number one on the world and won the ashes post texts with KP.  I know his book only came out after his sacking, I get that.  But everything from that and since is too much.  He should've done last year what he did this year.  Straight to Surrey, no book, score shed loads of runs and he'd have quickened the sacking process for Downton, Cook would've had him back in, as he did in 2012, minus the book and Twitter abuse.  Moores would probably still have gone.  He would've been back for the World Cup...
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ppccopener

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #191 on: May 15, 2015, 12:43:36 PM »

Well put indeed...

Sounds like the is a press conference coming from the ECB......
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uknsaunders

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #192 on: May 15, 2015, 12:52:25 PM »

ECB Chairman Colin Graves comments on the week
15 May 2015
                    Email this page
I would like to start my stewardship of the ECB looking forward to next week’s Investec Test series against New Zealand and the Ashes later in the summer.

But first there’s another point I want to address.

Clearly, the question of whether Kevin Pietersen will play for England again has been a debate for media and cricket fans alike.

I understand why people feel it’s important. So I’ll tell you what I said to the First Class County Chairmen, at yesterday’s AGM, and our people across the ECB this morning, on my first full day as Chairman.

In the past few days my integrity has been called into question, something I can’t accept. Throughout my business career and my years at Yorkshire, integrity has been my watchword. It governs everything I do and is an important part of what I bring to the ECB.

So it saddens me that what was a private conversation with Kevin in March has been used to do just that.

Back then, when we talked on the phone, Kevin asked if I thought his England career had ended in the right manner following the last Ashes series in Australia. I agreed that nobody particularly emerged with much credit from the whole episode, particularly given his achievements for England.

Kevin felt he had a lot to offer and was interested in a dialogue with the ECB, sorting things out and working together. He would love to play for England again but he wanted to contribute, whether as a player or not.

I didn’t make any promises. There were no guarantees that if he chose to exit his IPL contract, play County cricket and score runs he would be selected for England.  And I said he should make any decision on his future on that basis.

I can see something has been misunderstood around the conversation and in the following  debate - and perhaps how that happened.

What I did stress was that when I took over as chairman I would back those people whose job it was to take decisions on team selection. I stand by that.

Ahead of a big, busy summer of cricket, a clear decision needed to be taken. Given the history and the book, the simple fact is that bridges have still not been rebuilt and trust needs to be restored.

That takes time - as Andrew Strauss made clear this week.

Kevin was told on Monday and I completely support the decision that was taken.  He may not have liked what he heard but it allowed him to look at his opportunities.

Despite everything, he can work with us to re-build the relationship and make a further contribution to English cricket. It was important he knew where he stood.

Of course, I would like us to move forward and concentrate on the important matter of winning cricket matches. I don’t want to add any more or go deeper into private conversations.

I want to look to the future. I’m excited by the England team that is evolving and I look forward to giving them my full support this week.
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uknsaunders

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #193 on: May 15, 2015, 12:53:51 PM »

Speaking to BBC Radio 5 live's Sportsweek programme in early March, Graves refused to rule out a recall for Pietersen but said selectors and coaches would make any final decision.
Graves later told the Telegraph that the selectors "can't ignore" Pietersen if he "scores a lot of runs" for a county side.
"Forget personalities," he added. "Selectors pick the best players in form, taking wickets and scoring runs. That is their job."

Obviously not and it's right your integrity get's called into question when the selectors clearly aren't picking on form, that's your promise in March.
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uknsaunders

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Re: KP - the maverick's return?
« Reply #194 on: May 15, 2015, 12:57:44 PM »

I don't disagree with you.  Absolutely you should have your best team out there, but not at any cost.  But by allowing KP back after so many misdemeanour's, what are you saying to the rest of the players?  Stay in another hotel on tour if you like, KP did.  Not getting on this flight? OK mate, no worries, just make sure you turn up for practice tomorrow...

Don't want to drive the sponsors Jag?  You rock up in your ferrari mate, Jag will pull the plug for breach of contract, there's a couple of million quid gone, but don't worry, you're happy.

You gobbing off again about your team mates lack of ability in the dressing room while they're out there batting?  No problem, can I get you a foot stall while you do?

You want to sit back and watch the skipper, his wife and nipper take sickening abuse, that is more likely than not affecting his form?  Yeah, no worries.

It works both ways too - don't assume that no action was taken internally for the Twitter parody account abusing KP...

People like Sir Clive Woodward and Sir Dave Brailsford talk about the thousands of little improvements that amount to significant gains in sport - that's why they were so successful, nothing was left to chance.  I've seen both of them do keynote speeches.  The emphasis they place on team cohesion and the importance of group dynamics is massive.  You start to allow little transgressions and it spreads. 

I do think the ECB have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.  Do what Vaughan said - parachute him in if needed for home tests.  I'd consider that -no more than 7-8 days with the team, buying into the core values and ethics.  There's no way I'd take him on tour though. 

I know we were number one on the world and won the ashes post texts with KP.  I know his book only came out after his sacking, I get that.  But everything from that and since is too much.  He should've done last year what he did this year.  Straight to Surrey, no book, score shed loads of runs and he'd have quickened the sacking process for Downton, Cook would've had him back in, as he did in 2012, minus the book and Twitter abuse.  Moores would probably still have gone.  He would've been back for the World Cup...

Are these all to do with KP or are you using them as examples? Read Woodwards book, he decided one hotel in SA was so poor he booked his team into a better one on his amex. Without knowing why KP did that who is to say it was the wrong thing to do. Cricketers have never been treated as well as Footballers.
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