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[ppccopener]

Time to ramp up the controversy and go Donald Trump on all you guys 

I will claim, that the "spirit of the game" has never really existed! WG Grace was a cheat and yet his portraits are everywhere, nobody ever walks consistently (yes, Gilly did it once), bowlers still appeal for LBW when they know the batsman has hit the ball, keepers wait//hope for batsmen to overbalance so they can whip the bails off, even "nice" teams (like NZ) engage in calculated "mental assaults" (like Stephen Flemming vs Graeme Smith in one of the world cups...I think), fast bowlers have often genuinely tried to hurt batsmen, etc etc.

So either we attack all of the above with equal fervor, or just lump Mankad in there and move on to splurging on new bats.

No one is saying how to play the game, walk/don't walk/sledge/don't sledge/clap an oppo ton or give them the finger. No one cares what you do just don't influence others,especially youngsters to follow you're lead.

And yes sledging and cheating has gone on for years and years. Back to W G Grace indeed

[Karlo84]

I saw the video...my question is, why can batsmen not stay in their crease till the ball is released??

Again, I bring the stumping analogy - a batsman swings hard, and just barely drags his foot out for a second, and that too by a few mm, such that his is ON the line, as opposed to behind it. He is not trying to pinch a run, yet the keeper whips the bails off and stumps him. HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT??

I think its MORE unfair that batsmen get to leave the crease before the ball is released, because that increases their chances of making a quick single.

"HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT?" (!)(!)
It is different because the bowler has bowled a legal delivery that has beaten the batsman, the batsman has lost his balance and the WK is A) good enough to take the ball and B) fast enough to beat the batsman. Two totally different scenarios. One is skill the other is just cheap. If a batsman is stealing yards then fair enough, this guy was backing up as all non strikers should, he actually wasnt even over the line, he was on it!!

So Im assuming youre also OK with appealing when the batsman picks the ball up (even if it isnt moving but still live) and passes it to a fielder. By your view on the above, that is exactly the same as Mankading.

[Buzz]

Mankad is fair game. If you guys don't like batsmen getting out for being out of the crease,  why be ok with stumpings? Maybe the keeper should give a warning on the first stumping chance!

And what about stumping cases where the batsman accidentally lifts his foot trying to hit the ball? Or just slides it forward an inch unintentionally? How are those stumping cases any different from a mankad?

I love this suggestion - you can't be out stumped without a warning - this is brilliant.

[Percy]

Time to ramp up the controversy and go Donald Trump on all you guys 

I will claim, that the "spirit of the game" has never really existed! WG Grace was a cheat and yet his portraits are everywhere, nobody ever walks consistently (yes, Gilly did it once), bowlers still appeal for LBW when they know the batsman has hit the ball, keepers wait//hope for batsmen to overbalance so they can whip the bails off, even "nice" teams (like NZ) engage in calculated "mental assaults" (like Stephen Flemming vs Graeme Smith in one of the world cups...I think), fast bowlers have often genuinely tried to hurt batsmen, etc etc.

So either we attack all of the above with equal fervor, or just lump Mankad in there and move on to splurging on new bats.

Agreed!

[Ayrtek Cricket]

@brokenbat your mentions on being stumped and comparing the 2 arent in the slightest bit comparable.

Its like kicking the ball out for a throw in in football if a player is down injured, the sportmanlike and widely accepted thing to do upon restarting the game is to kick it back to the opposition who have put it out for a throw in. All hell breaks loose if a team doesn't obey this and goes onto score from it.

Having just seen a video where the Windies players celebrate like they've won the whole comp it clear they view winning far more importantly that their reputation as to how they got there.

Just look at the comments from Pro players on social media to see how its viewed by the cricket players.

[ppccopener]

ive scoured the net long and hard today and the only social media comment defending what happened is Tino Best from the West Indies and a loose cannon

[ppccopener]

by a Pro player I meant to add

[brokenbat]

"HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT?" (!)(!)
It is different because the bowler has bowled a legal delivery that has beaten the batsman, the batsman has lost his balance and the WK is A) good enough to take the ball and B) fast enough to beat the batsman. Two totally different scenarios. One is skill the other is just cheap. If a batsman is stealing yards then fair enough, this guy was backing up as all non strikers should, he actually wasnt even over the line, he was on it!!

So Im assuming youre also OK with appealing when the batsman picks the ball up (even if it isnt moving but still live) and passes it to a fielder. By your view on the above, that is exactly the same as Mankading.

Ok...so "stealing yards" is too much, but stealing an inch is not? Where does one draw the line, especially given  the fact that with today's technology an inch can make a huge difference (and yes, thats what she said too). Back in the day, close runout were given not out, but today...that extra inch is make or break. So...the batsman has to stay behind the line till the ball is released. Simple.

[Karlo84]

Ok...so "stealing yards" is too much, but stealing an inch is not? Where does one draw the line, especially given  the fact that with today's technology an inch can make a huge difference (and yes, thats what she said too). Back in the day, close runout were given not out, but today...that extra inch is make or break. So...the batsman has to stay behind the line till the ball is released. Simple.

Your point fails on so many levels...

Firstly - you compared it to a stumping which most of my answer was based on, but i think you've realised your mistake and not mentioned it in this last post as they are nothing like each other
Secondly - The batsman may well have thought he was in the crease (bearing in mind he was on the line), if he was trying to steal the width of the white line, he has superhuman timing.
One draws the line on intent - there was clearly no intent to steal an unfair advantage - if the bowler was to run through his action at normal pace he would more than likely have still been in his crease (especially the with the tiny margins we are talking)

[ppccopener]

broken bat read this please............   If the bowler in the incident had gone thru his action at normal pace the batsman would of still been in his crease.........do you agree with this statement or would he still of been out of his crease?

 

[edge]

Gents, the rule is the rule! If you're dozy enough as a batsman to get caught out of your crease, then you haven't got anywhere to look but at yourself. Not to be applauded maybe, but don't get angry at a player for playing to the rules. That's what the rules are there for after all.

Also, seriously what does him not going through his action have to do with it? If you see the bowler slowing down and not bowling, you don't head on off out of your crease, you stop. The bowler actually has to slow down and not go through his action in order to mankad, what else is he supposed to do?

[ProCricketer1982]

I don't understand why this is a big issue, the batsman at the non strikers end was deliberately (or not) flaunting the laws of the game and yet it is the bowler who is penalised on some "spirit of the game" technicality.

This is no different to a batsman missing a straight ball and being bowled.

what a lot of tosh gets written in this space.

100% agree. Tbh, the new rules are too batsmen friendly anyway.. Simple rule should be don't leave your ground until the bowler actually bowls the ball..

This is a batsmen trying to steal yards at the end of the day so fair play bowler

[ProCricketer1982]

Reading a lot of utter crap about how it's ok to 'back up'.. Sure back up but DONT leave your crease before the ball leaves the hand.. If you do, you are trying to steal a heard for the 'quick' single and so should pay the price.. Otherwise, there is no risk and batsmen will charge down headlong (we've all done it but it doesn't mean it's right).

Fair play to the bower IMO and as yiu all know I'm about as fair as they come on the field. I hate seeing the modern trend of backing up well out a crease so anything to stop it is good.

[Ayrtek Cricket]

This one is totally different to the Somerset one tho as the bowler doesn't even get close or near to a delivery stride.

http://youtu.be/N-ySwfJOzOg

The bowler had no intention of bowling the ball here and as such the batsmen was going through his usual routine.

I think it comes down to people's views on it, personally I'd never dream of doing it to a batsmen as a form of dismissal as that's not who I am as a person. As the captain I'd of withdrawn the appeal to avoid the awkward situation and the batsmen would have learnt his lesson.

Personally I think with the current state of WI cricket this does nothing to help!

[ProCricketer1982]

This one is totally different to the Somerset one tho as the bowler doesn't even get close or near to a delivery stride.

http://youtu.be/N-ySwfJOzOg

The bowler had no intention of bowling the ball here and as such the batsmen was going through his usual routine.

I think it comes down to people's views on it, personally I'd never dream of doing it to a batsmen as a form of dismissal as that's not who I am as a person. As the captain I'd of withdrawn the appeal to avoid the awkward situation and the batsmen would have learnt his lesson.

Personally I think with the current state of WI cricket this does nothing to help!

I'm very nice and in no way generally engage in sledging etc, however, I would mankad someone and actively do IF I feel they leave their ground, even an inch. At the end of the day they are stealing distance which could make the difference so if you're willing to do that then you deserve to be run out. If the bowler hasn't seen it and I'm at mid on I'll tell him so that he trotts in and is knowingly going to stop.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like it but I dislike batters stealing yards more