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[wasted_talent]

Yup, as in all 3 test matches v NZ, due to the turning wickets, india played 4 bowlers only. And Mishra was nowhere to be seen.

[six and out]

that would be a big call considering his side have just been hit for 500+ and 250 declared - a realise it will be a harder batting track in Vizag but still an interesting decision

[FattusCattus]

What do people think about Ansari? I'm really undecided, I felt he bowled a bit too full and quite floaty and I feel that Batty may provide a little more nous.

However, to contradict myself, I think I'd persevere with him to see if he can winkle batters out as very much our third spinner.

Is Saqlain actually out there working with them? I would have thought someone might have got into his ear about pushing it through a little quicker on that last day?

[ppccopener]

with their right handers he's going away from them which should be harder to play. He's def behind rash and moeen yes but Ansari can bat.

I know we don't need 11 batsmen in the side but it helps we bat deep, we (think) we are about the hit the mother of all turners in the next game, we can't have any sort of tail.

Saqlain has been working with all the bowlers, Rashid gave him a lot of praise in the interviews post match.

If it really is going to spin early then England might think of leaving out a seamer and playing Batty too. that would be 4 twirlies....

but if we leave out a seamer Stokes workload would increase. I don't think they want that to happen.

tricky....

I think we will be unchanged for Thursday.

**to correct that if we leave out a seamer Stokesy's workload could potentially increase***

[tate035]

What do people think about Ansari? I'm really undecided, I felt he bowled a bit too full and quite floaty and I feel that Batty may provide a little more nous.

However, to contradict myself, I think I'd persevere with him to see if he can winkle batters out as very much our third spinner.

Is Saqlain actually out there working with them? I would have thought someone might have got into his ear about pushing it through a little quicker on that last day?

From interviews I have seen/heard, Mushy has really taken a hands on approach since 1st test in Bangladesh. According to a few Rashid has had problems being allowed to set his own fields for both Morgan and Cook.
Gillespie in the big bash and in England put the emphasis on Rashid sorting his own fields out and bowling to them.
Mushy seems to think out spinners are "thinking " to much and haven't been attacking enough. Personally I think it's Mushy is spot on because Rashid under Gillespie was a different animal compared to when he has played for England. I think we saw in the 1st test how Rashid seemed to have more input into what fields he had than in previous 2 years...

[six and out]

i quite like Ansari, i just think he is very inexperienced and needs time. I thought he definitely bowled too slowly for that wicket and test cricket in general, but like i said he is still young.... Mo has said a number of times it took him quite a while to actually work out the pace to bowl for test cricket etc...

I also think it was telling that Cook gave him the ball 1st on a couple of occasions before the other spinners so he obviously trusts him.

He gives the spin attack a lot of balance and the Indians are packed with RHB - even more so when Rahul probably replaces Gambhir (next or 3rd test).

As for Saqlain, Mo and Rashid both said in interviews he hasn't worked on anything technical it has been about mind set, being relaxed, what fields to set and when to set them, and most importantly enjoying bowling spin in India.

Which i see as the biggest difference in Rashid he looks so much more relaxed and therefore is able to get through his action more.

[Felix Tito]

Whether Moeen and Rashid out bowled Ashwin and Jadeja(Ansari and Mishra were both terrible) is a mute point. Moeen and Rashid had the luxury of bowling with 550 on the board. I don't care how good a batting team you are, you are under pressure. Just look at the bizarre manner in which Rahane got out in both innings(and he's there best player in the last 12-18 months). We saw in Bangladesh in low scoring matches Moeen and Rashid struggled with the expectation to win matches. And both still bowled more than a few pies in the match just concluded. Finally India's spin twins might've been under cooked. IIRC neither played the NZ ODIs. Both bowled plenty in Rajkot so should be in better rhythm in the second Test.

[ppccopener]

Whether Moeen and Rashid out bowled Ashwin and Jadeja(Ansari and Mishra were both terrible) is a mute point. Moeen and Rashid had the luxury of bowling with 550 on the board. I don't care how good a batting team you are, you are under pressure. Just look at the bizarre manner in which Rahane got out in both innings(and he's there best player in the last 12-18 months). We saw in Bangladesh in low scoring matches Moeen and Rashid struggled with the expectation to win matches. And both still bowled more than a few pies in the match just concluded. Finally India's spin twins might've been under cooked. IIRC neither played the NZ ODIs. Both bowled plenty in Rajkot so should be in better rhythm in the second Test.

Any spinner needs runs on the board thou surely Felix?  ashwin and the rest and coming behind a powerhouse batting line up, India don't get rolled for 200 much.

and when we had Swann, a lot of the time we had racked up some pretty big totals thanks to cook,strauss,kp and bell and trott sometimes.


they are not going to be successful trying to bowl defending low scores

Warne and Murali were different, standard test spinners needs runs behind them don't they?

[Felix Tito]

Any spinner needs runs on the board thou surely Felix?  ashwin and the rest and coming behind a powerhouse batting line up, India don't get rolled for 200 much.

and when we had Swann, a lot of the time we had racked up some pretty big totals thanks to cook,strauss,kp and bell and trott sometimes.


they are not going to be successful trying to bowl defending low scores

Warne and Murali were different, standard test spinners needs runs behind them don't they?

What I was saying it that Rashid and Moeen's performances shouldn't be expected as the norm. On a raging turner I don't think anyone will score 550 against India. South Africa can't and are plenty decent.

On a square turner the bowlers have to build their own pressure on the batsmen and in Bangladesh the above mentioned couldn't do it

[northernboy1987]

What I was saying it that Rashid and Moeen's performances shouldn't be expected as the norm. On a raging turner I don't think anyone will score 550 against India. South Africa can't and are plenty decent.

On a square turner the bowlers have to build their own pressure on the batsmen and in Bangladesh the above mentioned couldn't do it

Are we talking current SA or the all conquering SA team of 5 years or so ago? I don't think the current SA batting line up (bar Amla and an increasingly injured/disinterested looking AB) is much to write home about to be honest, I don't think either opener, Duminy, Faf or DeKock would get in the current England side, I'm maybe being harsh on young Quintin, probably a better gloveman than YJB but I don't think he's a better test match batter.

EDIT: As Duckett is so green I guess you'd take Faf at 4 over him at this moment in time.

[Felix Tito]

Are we talking current SA or the all conquering SA team of 5 years or so ago? I don't think the current SA batting line up (bar Amla and an increasingly injured/disinterested looking AB) is much to write home about to be honest, I don't think either opener, Duminy, Faf or DeKock would get in the current England side, I'm maybe being harsh on young Quintin, probably a better gloveman than YJB but I don't think he's a better test match batter.

De Kock has Bairstow covered rather easily TBH. England have three/four better keepers

[northernboy1987]

De Kock has Bairstow covered rather easily TBH. England have three/four better keepers

You think? Keepers aren't just picked on keeping post-Gilchrist though are they, they have to be keeper/batters and for my money out of all the current test match keepers (all nations), JB is the best batter. I agree that QDK is the better gloveman though and also that if it was white ball cricket I'd probably take DeKock, Sarfraz or Buttler over YJB.

EDIT can't believe I left Dhoni out that white ball list haha

[smilley792]

De kock would walk into the England side.

He could easily be keeper batsman and bairstow take the number 5 spot.

Or be a sole batsman at 5!

He's one of the best batsman across all formats at mo and to say he wouldn't get in our side is ridiculous.

[CrickFreak]

I will be very disappointed if Vizag and future test venues dont produce pitches that suit India. Rajkot was an ODI pitch. Take the home advantage and dont miss the opportunity to win because when India start travelling they will get pitches which dont suit them for sure. Thats the reality!
Even though England spinners gave an impression of being decent which was mainly because of the run deficit and not actual spinning abilities, its also about application. With 500+ on the board, Indian spinners would have ripped through opposition batting for less than 250. They know how to bowl on these pitches. You could be very good in Yorkshire but Yorkshire is not in India.

England should have got Swann as coach/consultant on this series rather have him cover a test series in which England is not even playing. When he toured India, it looked like he knew how to bowl and could pass that knowledge to inexperienced English bowlers.

[six and out]

De kock would walk into the England side.

He could easily be keeper batsman and bairstow take the number 5 spot.

Or be a sole batsman at 5!

He's one of the best batsman across all formats at mo and to say he wouldn't get in our side is ridiculous.

QDK is the best overall package keeper out there at the moment.

YJB keeping is improving but it isn't near De Kock's and their batting at the mo is relatively similar.