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[Chalkie]

Being a bit pedantic (and possibly ignorant) here, but surely like Jake says Salix alba grown in England is English White willow, but Salix alba grown in India is Indian white willow.

But I guess where it could get confusing is if the IWW is grown from saplings raised in England brought over to India, then it could be English willow nurtured in India. But is there a point in its life where it becomes Indian willow - What would the export information say if they sold it as felled trees and shipped it to another country?

Stretching this a bit with an alternative example - if you bought a whole load of italian olive saplings, shipped them to the UK, planted, and a few years later produced some olive oil from the olive crop, would it be called Italian olive oil, English olive oil, or Italian olive oil nurtured in England?

[Chalkie]

Either way I think it would be great to see some robust research on this

[swark]

I agree with @Chalkie - there is so much confusion around regarding timber types, and this adds the problem which dodgy manufacturers can take advantage of.

I think one of the issues is the term "English willow" being seen as synonymous  with Salix Alba Caerulea. Any bat that is not made of "English willow" is seen as being far inferior, so genuine manufacturers are, not unreasonably in some ways, keen to identify and market their product as being of a reasonable quality and not 'kashmir'. Interestingly, I did find a study that compared the rebound qualities of English willow against Kashmir willow and it only found a 1.5% difference (from memory). One of the things I would like to test in Stage 2 is how the rebound varies across the length and width of the bat.   

My interpretation would be (and this is just my fairly ignorant view that is subject to change) that any bat proclaimed to be made of "English willow" should have been grown until felling in England. This would not preclude other countries producing bats made of Salix Alba Caerulea, be it a long standing plantation (such as in Australia) or new cuttings transplanted from England to a new location to finish their growing. That would allow for distinction between Salix Alba Caerulea and Salix Fragilis (for example), but maintain an understanding of what "English willow" refers to. In some ways, this is similar to the regulation that you can only market certain types of wine etc under a name if they are actually grown in that traditional region of France.

[Seniorplayer]

1.5 difference in ping  having  used  both English willow and Kasmir willow bats  would nt  disagree at all with that

[Calzehbhoy]

A pingdex @DorsetDan ?

[Jaffa]

From what I have seen with the bats I've had it's not really an issue with ping (CA for example) but they should be at least honest about where the willow comes from. GN bats from India, I've seen a few very dry ones despite coming from their own quality controlled factory. Do they state English willow?

Apart from Kashmir willow, if the growing and drying conditions are similar then I can't imagine a huge difference in ping. Aren't we told it is the pressing that makes a good bat? I think the main difference will be in the price of the raw materials.

[Seniorplayer]

From what I have seen with the bats I've had it's not really an issue with ping (CA for example) but they should be at least honest about where the willow comes from. GN bats from India, I've seen a few very dry ones despite coming from their own quality controlled factory. Do they state English willow?

Apart from Kashmir willow, if the growing and drying conditions are similar then I can't imagine a huge difference in ping. Aren't we told it is the pressing that makes a good bat? I think the main difference will be in the price of the raw materials.

GN state English willow on there English willow bats.

[Biggie Smalls]

Ist grader,  living in Sydney.  Happy to help .

[swark]

@DorsetDan - love the idea! Dunno about using kashmir as the baseline though - English willow (grown in England) would appear to be the logical reference point as it is still seen as the defacto standard, but trying to quantify that will also be problematic due the different gradings. It could be possible to average the rebound from a series of grade 1 English willow bats (say 20) in order to arrive at a mean score. Horribly expensive exercise for me though  More to think about ....

@Jaffa - One of the issues we are interested in looking at is whether the growing conditions do make a difference. Visually (not the greatest measure admittedly) there is quite a difference between grade 1 English willow (very white) and Australian willow (darker). But does this actually translate to a performance difference? Durability is a factor in here - from what I understand, the faster growing willow (hotter climates) will be different to slower growing. Water content in the end product is yet another factor, and I'm not even buying into the argument about pressing.

@Biggie Smalls @Biggie Smalls @Biggie Smalls (sorry, probably been done to death before but couldn't resist) - thanks for the offer. Will continue to conceptualise the project parameters and will be in touch.

[swark]

I know, but the idea of a standard point of comparison for willow is an intriguing one anyway. However, it may lead to the ICC introducing a 0.83 limit on drivers bats ...

[swark]

A quick question:

One of the things I wish to do is ensure that no tester is influenced by the appearance (i.e. colour, grains etc) of the bat (at least in one part of the experiment).

Any suggestions on the best way to cover the blade and back of the bat from shoulder to toe, but still allow for this covering to be removed at a later stage with no impact on the blade (e.g. no paints, stains etc). I was thinking of elastoplast (I used that as a quick and dirty bat repair tool many years ago), but would need to trial what impact that would have on overall bat weight. Any better ideas?

Cheers,

Stuart

[Gurujames]

Get a roll of coloured vinyl. Cheap and very lightweight. Not as sticky as scuff sheet either.

[bostoncricketer]

Couple of layers of fibre scuff sheet?

[manno]

Stuart, why the need to return the bats back to raw? Surely the bats have seeved their purpose during the testing. Sure, its an expensive sacrifice but the data is the goal of the exercise. Write a few bats off. Its not the end of the world.

[AlRidd]

As said above, fibre scuff sheets would probably be the best way to go.