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[ppccopener]

All time? In my view, assuming four seamers and post WW2, you have two certs - Trueman and Botham - after which you have a pool of about seven or eight contenders from whom it comes down to what you like. Anderson, Statham, Willis, Broad, Flintoff, Hoggard, Harmison, possibly Side bottom for variety.  Anderson is probably the most skillful of those, but he is also the most similar to the two certs.

I think Anderson is the most skilful bowler ive seen myself in an England shirt, ive sen you tube or Truman and Underwood. Underwood was one of our best but as @northernboy1987 pointed out-this is on uncovered wickets. There's no doubt his skill but wickets these days are batsman friendly

i'd be interested anyone on the forum who has seen both Fred and Jimmy

to my knowledge that is only @Seniorplayer ........

[FattusCattus]

Wouldn't Bedser be pretty high up as one of the first names on the team sheet? Tyson was a habful too!

If you were picking 4 seamers, how about:

Botham
Flintoff
Bedser
Trueman

with Statham / Tyson in the squad?

[FattusCattus]

Then my all-time England post WW2 lower order could be -

Botham
Flintoff
Knott
Trueman
Laker
Bedser

[Alvaro]

I would have Deadly Derek instead of Laker, FC. And Snow instead of Flinters

[northernboy1987]

For what it's worth I'd make sure I could find room for Anderson in my all time xi. I think, along with Cook, we won't realise how good he was until we're trying to find someone to take his place.

[Seniorplayer]

I think Anderson is the most skilful bowler ive seen myself in an England shirt, ive sen you tube or Truman and Underwood. Underwood was one of our best but as @northernboy1987 pointed out-this is on uncovered wickets. There's no doubt his skill but wickets these days are batsman friendly

i'd be interested anyone on the forum who has seen both Fred and Jimmy

to my knowledge that is only @Seniorplayer ........

Yes seen Fred  ( saw Fred live get his 300 test wicket) and Jimmy and agree totally with yours friends comparison comments he's spot on Fred was  quicker and hit the pitch harde didn't swing it much  as for Underwood yes he got his deadly name on uncovered wickets but he could get wickets on any track  his skill was he was he  spun The ball and bowled at speed faster put every ball in the same spot and pressured the Batsman into  making a mistake he was also bitterly dispointed that he was stopped from getting 300 wickets.

[FattusCattus]

I would have Deadly Derek instead of Laker, FC. And Snow instead of Flinters

Well actually - I'm a 2 spinners man, so seeing as I would have Compton and Boycott in my top 5 to fiddle a few over from, I would revert to -

Botham
Flintoff
Knott
Trueman
Laker
Underwood.

I like Both for the swing, Flintoff as a bouncy enforcer and Trueman as a bit of both.

[Seniorplayer]

He scored two Test hundreds in India. And one at 7 last summer. More than Vince, cook, Hales, Buttler, Ballance in the same period. But do keep the narrative going.

Ali can score runs in India but  he's cant play the new ball   Short stuff on fast  wickets

[Alvaro]

Horlicks.

Look at his Ashes stats from 2015, do you think that the Aussies didn't bother to bounce him?

Plus, how many of the other England players can play fast stuff on quick wickets? Stokes and Bairstow comfortably. Root - probably? Otherwise, in 2013 they folded like cards.

[Seniorplayer]

Horlicks.

Gle  at his Ashes stats from 2015, do you think that the Aussies didn't bother to bounce him?

Plus, how many of the other England players can play fast stuff on quick wickets? Stokes and Bairstow comfortably. Root - probably? Otherwise, in 2013 they folded like cards.

Take your point re stats
But if Mo is still that good why was he dropped from opening nothing to do with getting out to the short stuff seem to recall watching him many times getting out trying to hook. Still believe in the UK he's at his best  batting at 8.

[FattusCattus]

It's a gut feeling, but I just don't like the idea of Mo batting above 6 in our test side - he just seems a bit fast and loose and prone to getting out to silly shots / the short ball.

[Alvaro]

Take your point re stats
But if Mo is still that good why was he dropped from opening nothing to do with getting out to the short stuff seem to recall watching him many times getting out trying to hook. Still believe in the UK he's at his best  batting at 8.

I think the pressure of being an allrounder (and frontline spinner) meant that opening was always a short-term thing and based on getting more bowling (if that's what you call Rashid lollies down bowling) options. He's basically been treated the worst of any enduring England players in terms of role and has been shifted about to make way for people who have contributed less. In my team he would bat 7, but he is the fall guy when other areas of malaise in the England team should be looked at first imo.

[petehosk]

In my view, I don't think that Ali should bat at 5.
My Test side would be similar to.....

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow/Buttler
Ali
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Jimmy

As much as I think Buttler is a God when he gets going, I still prefer Bairstow in a Test side.

[northernboy1987]

In my view, I don't think that Ali should bat at 5.
My Test side would be similar to.....

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow/Buttler
Ali
Woakes/Wood
Broad
Jimmy

As much as I think Buttler is a God when he gets going, I still prefer Bairstow in a Test side.

I'm pretty much with you Pete, not sure if someone else deserves a chance over Ballance this time but he's certainly in the runs, I would push for Livingstone or possibly Duckett in at 5 but might be a bit of a inexperienced top 5 with only Cook and Root over 3 caps! I can also see the logic behind leaving Mo at 5, he hasn't done anything wrong but I feel that maybe he was only batting at 5 to allow another spinner in at 8, if going forward Ali is going to be the main spinner in a 4 seam 1 spin attack then for me he bats at 8, if Ali and Rashid are going to share spin duties full time then I don't have a problem with Mo at 5 and Rash at 8.

[Manormanic]

Bairstow at five, Ali seven anyone?