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Author Topic: Royal London One Day Cup 2017  (Read 27730 times)

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rickjames

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2017, 04:13:44 PM »

He remains our most talented player, and the worst treated by the selectors.

Not denying his talent and his stats are great, but the most talented? Guess that's your opinion. Just think he's going to have a really hard time getting in the side without dropping a bowler
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Manormanic

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2017, 04:35:07 PM »

Not denying his talent and his stats are great, but the most talented? Guess that's your opinion. Just think he's going to have a really hard time getting in the side without dropping a bowler

Oh, I accept that that is somewhat of a subjective statement - how do you compare skill sets, etc. I guess what I mean is, I cannot see how he is not better than most of the guys in there.
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edge

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2017, 04:41:25 PM »

He remains our most talented player, and the worst treated by the selectors.
Really? Let's take the almost certain England top 6 - Roy, Hales, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler.
Bairstow averages less in both ODI and List A (32 in both) than all except Stokes (who averages 2 less in ODI but 1 more in List A), and scores at a slower rate in ODIs (86) than everyone except Root (85).
Billings averages less in ODIs (though he's only played 10) but 12 more in List A, and at a far quicker rate in both. Moeen averages a bit less than YJB but scores a fair bit quicker.
YJB also has less limited overs tons than any of the other 8 candidates to bat in the top 7.

Worst treated by selectors? He's a good player, but it's hard to make a genuine case for him to be first choice for England in limited overs cricket.
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Manormanic

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2017, 05:49:13 PM »

Really? Let's take the almost certain England top 6 - Roy, Hales, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler.
Bairstow averages less in both ODI and List A (32 in both) than all except Stokes (who averages 2 less in ODI but 1 more in List A), and scores at a slower rate in ODIs (86) than everyone except Root (85).
Billings averages less in ODIs (though he's only played 10) but 12 more in List A, and at a far quicker rate in both. Moeen averages a bit less than YJB but scores a fair bit quicker.
YJB also has less limited overs tons than any of the other 8 candidates to bat in the top 7.

Worst treated by selectors? He's a good player, but it's hard to make a genuine case for him to be first choice for England in limited overs cricket.

Firstly, when I say "worst treated" I refer to his career as a whole rather than purely in one day cricket.  That covers the constant shifting between keeper and specialist bat, the months he spent playing an odd game between periods of 12th man duties (often stopped from playing elsewhere when so doing) and the way he was marked down for - for example - his struggles to walk into a test match on the sub continent after eight weeks without a competitive innings and score freely.  I won't even go into the games he has been withdrawn from.

As regards purely ODI cricket, you seem to fall victim to the lies That are pure statistics.  Aside from the disruption mentioned above - which is always going to produce less from equally talented players than a long run in the team - you fail to take into account that all of the other players you mention apart from Wor Sturkes bat in the top four for their counties, whereas until this season YJB has stayed at five, six or even seven for Yorkshire behind a powerful line up (I recall seeing him bat behind Lyth, Finch, Williamson, Root, Ballance.  Coming in in the 49th over to slog is not good for your average!).

Obviously, any sensible selector would have Root at three, Morgan, Stokes and Buttler in the middle order and at least four first choice bowlers from Woakes, Willey, Plunkett, Rashid and Wood.  That leaves two options:
1. Bairstow replaces one of Hales and Roy.  This is a no-brainer.  He is clearly the most talented player of the three, and we have seen since Roy came on the scene that two pinch hitting openers does not work.
2. He replaces Ali and Root chucks the obligatory pies.

Either works for me - as would my actual preference, which would be Roy, Root, Bairstow, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes, Billing, Rashid, Woakes, Willey, Wood.
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edge

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2017, 06:19:26 PM »

Test matches you've got a fair point, he's done well to prove a lot of people wrong and get to where he is now! I don't think the stats lie though, Bairstow's recent ODI batting has been mostly 50s at a strike rate of 85 after all.

Some valid points, but I differ in that I'd still take both Hales and Roy over Bairstow, both have very good international records and consistently score big runs. If ditching Ali and going with 5 bowlers plus Root, Billings is a better fit for the position and a phenomenon waiting to happen. I like having the extra bowler though, especially when it's a spinner who also does a very good line in important runs after a collapse, so Ali stays.
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Manormanic

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2017, 06:39:27 PM »

Test matches you've got a fair point, he's done well to prove a lot of people wrong and get to where he is now! I don't think the stats lie though, Bairstow's recent ODI batting has been mostly 50s at a strike rate of 85 after all.

Some valid points, but I differ in that I'd still take both Hales and Roy over Bairstow, both have very good international records and consistently score big runs. If ditching Ali and going with 5 bowlers plus Root, Billings is a better fit for the position and a phenomenon waiting to happen. I like having the extra bowler though, especially when it's a spinner who also does a very good line in important runs after a collapse, so Ali stays.

But...most of those 50s have been after periods of inactivity and have also led to England winning games.  Tough to criticise...

Hales and Roy...do they consistently score big runs? Both have made big score, but carry too many 0s and 1s.  One of them is essential, both for me an unneccessary extravagance when you have a guy like YJB who is way more talented and could play the same role but also build an innings in tricky circumstances.   Big game, sticky seamer, who would you rather have?  Hales aiming wild swings at anything outside off before the inevitable nick off or Bairstow building a patient 60 at 85?
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edge

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2017, 10:23:36 PM »

Is Gary Ballance colourblind? Or does mixing up the stickers on your bat = ridiculous amounts of runs?
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ppccopener

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2017, 10:54:26 PM »

I think ive read he is colour blind
Hes in some blinding form at the moment!
Very very good player
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liscon12

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2017, 11:10:27 PM »

Just looks like the light is not hitting the back of the bat and not making the stickers seem the same colour to me
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Manormanic

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2017, 05:27:02 AM »

He is colorblind - when the round of day night games comes around he is sitting out as a result
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2017, 08:44:03 AM »

Really? Let's take the almost certain England top 6 - Roy, Hales, Root, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler.
Bairstow averages less in both ODI and List A (32 in both) than all except Stokes (who averages 2 less in ODI but 1 more in List A), and scores at a slower rate in ODIs (86) than everyone except Root (85).
Billings averages less in ODIs (though he's only played 10) but 12 more in List A, and at a far quicker rate in both. Moeen averages a bit less than YJB but scores a fair bit quicker.
YJB also has less limited overs tons than any of the other 8 candidates to bat in the top 7.

Worst treated by selectors? He's a good player, but it's hard to make a genuine case for him to be first choice for England in limited overs cricket.
it's not hard at all
Forget averages pick the form guys
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Woodyspin

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2017, 02:06:35 PM »

Is Hales using an Aussie GN? Look like different stickers?

alexhilly1492

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #42 on: May 11, 2017, 02:08:34 PM »

Is Hales using an Aussie GN? Look like different stickers?

He was in the Odis so would assume it's the same bat
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Woodyspin

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2017, 02:11:38 PM »

Yeah not the Bow tie type stickers you'd see from the UK range

Woodyspin

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Re: Royal London One Day Cup 2017
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2017, 02:12:16 PM »

Also classic old woman wondering behind the bowlers arm, without a clue what's going on!
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