Ashes 2017-18
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Number4

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2865 on: January 07, 2018, 04:17:57 AM »

Oh Chef, could have played an easy front foot defence to that but played back and made it look like a world class delivery

That’s because it was a world class delivery. Deceived with trajectory and extra pace then nice turn.
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Biggie Smalls

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2866 on: January 07, 2018, 04:29:52 AM »

That’s because it was a world class delivery. Deceived with trajectory and extra pace then nice turn.


Yep...and previous 2 deliveries,  one turned square,  one went straight. Thats how you muddle up a batsmans footwork.
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Big Mac

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2867 on: January 07, 2018, 04:30:03 AM »

That’s because it was a world class delivery. Deceived with trajectory and extra pace then nice turn.

Nah, it was a little bit flatter but that's it.

We're not talking peak Shane Warne flipper here. It landed on the same length as the previous ball that Cook played with his eyes closed, Cook just misjudged it totally. If he got onto the front foot he would have treated it just the same as he did the previous delivery.

It was a decent bit of bowling aided by poor batting.
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Big Mac

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2868 on: January 07, 2018, 04:35:44 AM »


Yep...and previous 2 deliveries,  one turned square,  one went straight. Thats how you muddle up a batsmans footwork.

The one that turned a lot landed in the rough outside of off, which isn't something that should worry a left handed batsmen because anything landing in there isn't going to threaten the stumps.

The second ball was played easily on the front, the wicket taking ball was bowled from slightly (but not a lot wider) and landed in almost the same spot. Cook just made a mistake to a decent off-break.

Dare I stay up long enough to watch Vince hit a couple of nice cover drives before providing the slip cordon with catching practice...
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Big Mac

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2869 on: January 07, 2018, 05:05:25 AM »

Yeah, didn't think I'd need to stay up too long to see that  :D ;)
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ppccopener

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2870 on: January 07, 2018, 06:18:11 AM »

Early start Sunday is anyone else up? You got to support your team  :)

C mon lads head down forget scoring off every ball and stonewall a few !!! 
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ppccopener

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2871 on: January 07, 2018, 06:27:09 AM »

We....England  :) have got to stop the Vince thing after this tour,it's not working.You must have the nous not to get out he same way all the time.

Another batsman needs to come into the squad presuming Stokes is back as well by then

Not convinced but maybe Foakes should take the gloves as well so we have a different set up.Bairstow as a specialist batter

The other batsman to replace Vince? I think I would select someone new like Clarke,Laurence or Hameed.we might as well invest in youth a bit.

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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2872 on: January 07, 2018, 09:27:10 AM »

We....England  :) have got to stop the Vince thing after this tour,it's not working.You must have the nous not to get out he same way all the time.

Another batsman needs to come into the squad presuming Stokes is back as well by then

Not convinced but maybe Foakes should take the gloves as well so we have a different set up.Bairstow as a specialist batter

The other batsman to replace Vince? I think I would select someone new like Clarke,Laurence or Hameed.we might as well invest in youth a bit.

Are there any or many in county Cricket who aren’t going to keep getting out the same way given the modern tendencies of batsmen brought up on limited over cricket ??

Sadly, as much as this team is a lads group, has a poor culture, takes zero responsibility and should be cleared out there simply aren’t the players to replace them so why bother.

Add in the coaching set ups at all counties are equally crap as they are all producing the same flawed players and systems, there is little hope of finding test class players any time soon.

Still.. one final night up before a few months off before the nz tests. Obviously not bothering with white ball stuff
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ppccopener

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2873 on: January 07, 2018, 09:40:47 AM »

Are there any or many in county Cricket who aren’t going to keep getting out the same way given the modern tendencies of batsmen brought up on limited over cricket ??

Sadly, as much as this team is a lads group, has a poor culture, takes zero responsibility and should be cleared out there simply aren’t the players to replace them so why bother.

Add in the coaching set ups at all counties are equally crap as they are all producing the same flawed players and systems, there is little hope of finding test class players any time soon.

Still.. one final night up before a few months off before the nz tests. Obviously not bothering with white ball stuff

Yes emphasis on quick scoring batsmen has been encouraged, we have a coach who has been very successful
with our one day side and seems to want a strokeplayer at number 3, and number 4 and so on....

Of the current younger ones Hameed looked to me different and cut outfor the longer game, temperament seemed to be there for the start and that was fairly unusual...technically he may have so eWorld to do, and he's till needs to score runs, you can't just be handed a test without a bit of form behind you.

Some of the commentators saying stick with Vince

I wonder if you took a poll on the forum is it better to stick with Vince? The thi is good bowlers bowl it outside off more often that not, they don't spray it everywhere.

Tricky decisions I think for England.

What about Bairstow? Do we need a specialist keeper and would that help JB become one of the best 2 batsmen in the team.
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2874 on: January 07, 2018, 10:19:34 AM »

Yes emphasis on quick scoring batsmen has been encouraged, we have a coach who has been very successful
with our one day side and seems to want a strokeplayer at number 3, and number 4 and so on....

Of the current younger ones Hameed looked to me different and cut outfor the longer game, temperament seemed to be there for the start and that was fairly unusual...technically he may have so eWorld to do, and he's till needs to score runs, you can't just be handed a test without a bit of form behind you.

Some of the commentators saying stick with Vince

I wonder if you took a poll on the forum is it better to stick with Vince? The thi is good bowlers bowl it outside off more often that not, they don't spray it everywhere.

Tricky decisions I think for England.

What about Bairstow? Do we need a specialist keeper and would that help JB become one of the best 2 batsmen in the team.

With regard to Bairstow England need to find a keeper who can bat and johnny to take vinces batting  slot.
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Number4

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2875 on: January 07, 2018, 10:24:55 AM »

Yes emphasis on quick scoring batsmen has been encouraged, we have a coach who has been very successful
with our one day side and seems to want a strokeplayer at number 3, and number 4 and so on....

Of the current younger ones Hameed looked to me different and cut outfor the longer game, temperament seemed to be there for the start and that was fairly unusual...technically he may have so eWorld to do, and he's till needs to score runs, you can't just be handed a test without a bit of form behind you.

Some of the commentators saying stick with Vince

I wonder if you took a poll on the forum is it better to stick with Vince? The thi is good bowlers bowl it outside off more often that not, they don't spray it everywhere.

Tricky decisions I think for England.

What about Bairstow? Do we need a specialist keeper and would that help JB become one of the best 2 batsmen in the team.

I think England’s problems are deeper than finding batsmen... Broad hasn’t really even seemed to try this series, maybe because conditions don’t suit so he gives up.... Ali bowling figures 2 for 170, Crane 1 for 193, Broad 1 for 121. Then you have Anderson who always gives it his all 1 for 56 at an econ of 1.65. Bowlers have been tripe apart from Anderson. Bairstow is fine as keeper if you get Stokes back.

I’d stick with Stoneman and Vince. Your game changers aren’t performing i.e Cook, Root and Your other game changer is Stokes... Then your best Bowlers in Broad and Anderson have been under par... More so Broad than Anderson, Your frontline spinner is garbage and you have a 20 year old debutant trying to contain experienced in form batsmen.
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alexhilly1492

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2876 on: January 07, 2018, 10:27:24 AM »

With regard to Bairstow England need to find a keeper who can bat and johnny to take vinces batting  slot.

Foakes had the highest batting average of all keepers in cc cricket last year followed by alex Davies

Davies opens the batting for lancs so could slot in at 3 for England and keep leaving bairstow to just bat at 5? Malan six stokes 7 ali 8?
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2877 on: January 07, 2018, 11:09:28 AM »

Foakes had the highest batting average of all keepers in cc cricket last year followed by alex Davies

Davies opens the batting for lancs so could slot in at 3 for England and keep leaving bairstow to just bat at 5? Malan six stokes 7 ali 8?

Why is it assumed Bairstow is good enough for top 3 ?? Leave him at six with the gloves as it suits his game. The problems are deeper than fiddling around. The simple truth is the system and game we have doesn’t produce the quality needed.

Tbh, I don’t see any point changing any of the players as there is no one better around.. it would all be horses for courses or pure punts. Ali bats 3 in county Cricket so why would any county 3be any better ? Stoneman opens and doesn’t look upto it and so why would any of the other openers do it. Etc etc

Unless the system changes and the coaches change then tbh we are just changing the deck chairs and waiting for green tops when people can then claim the guys are all world class again.

The fact these guys don’t appear capable of just batting time is the most telling fact to them not being test quality. This is another game where ‘being positive’ or even bothering to score a run is mute.. 1off 200 is miles better than 50 off 90 as runs are meaningless
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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2878 on: January 07, 2018, 11:32:55 AM »

I could rant all day about how we have been but basically we haven't been good enough in all departments and got properly beaten up by a much better team... and if we're honest it would have been 5-0 if the MCG pitch hadn't been the M1.

I will leave you with a few quotes/stats that I think sum up a few things...

On Vince... the defination of insanity...

"doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Bairstow quote after Day 3 about his batting when he got out to the last ball of the day.....

"No one was complaining when I hit the one for four two balls earlier," he said. "It got me out and was skilfully executed. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I don't think it's a massive issue."

Overall stat for you.....

649-7 declared, the 7th highest total England have conceded overseas.
In their last 7 away Tests, they have conceded their 1st, 5th, 7th & 10th highest scores outside England.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2879 on: January 07, 2018, 12:00:06 PM »

"No one was complaining when I hit the one for four two balls earlier," he said. "It got me out and was skilfully executed. Live by the sword, die by the sword. I don't think it's a massive issue."


There is your biggest issue with modern payers. They have not the skill to adapt or the game management skills.

The modern white ball game however is so many levels above the past so tbh, it comes down on which format you want to promote. All boards have chosen white ball and so test cricket is suffering..

There is no easy or quick answers and whatever could be done would needing doing from the very bottom level to the top
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