Ashes 2017-18
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WalkingWicket37

Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2265 on: December 18, 2017, 03:00:27 PM »

Left field choice - Vince for captain

He's skippered Hampshire for yonks and has previously captained the Lions.

Oh, to have James Taylor back :(
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brokenbat

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2266 on: December 18, 2017, 03:01:26 PM »

Not affecting it too much, although I will admit I thought it would be a lot lower for when he is captain!

is captain       2017-2017   10 18  0   905  190 50.27 1430 63.28    2  7 0 131 1
is not captain 2012-2016   53  98 11 4594 254 52.80 8352 55.00 11 27 3 507 15

he's averaging 50, but not scoring enough (sounds funny, i know).. way too many pretty 50s.
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Rob580

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2267 on: December 18, 2017, 03:17:46 PM »

he's averaging 50, but not scoring enough (sounds funny, i know).. way too many pretty 50s.

I agree, big time.

I was shocked as much as anything to see that it was as close as this, however his penchant for making 50's and not 100's was already in full flow prior to him becoming captain.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2268 on: December 18, 2017, 03:19:13 PM »

If Benji is cleared from charges, he should be slotted for captaincy ASAP and relieve Root for run scoring. As much a fan I am of Cook, his time has come. Time to get some young guys in the England squad.

I didn't think Speedy had it in him but he was superb in this series!
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mattdawson

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2269 on: December 18, 2017, 03:38:38 PM »

A captain is only as good as his team.

I don't think root should have been made captain in the first place, best players don't always make good leaders. My experiences have been they can't convey their point clearly, then can't understand why others can't perform what they can/want.

But there's no outstanding candidate to me, From the way he speaks to the media I think Bairstow could make a good captain but he's not much experience as a skipper let alone him having gloves and expected to perform with bat its too much.

You can't take the job from root after a year in the job. Got to let him reshuffle the pack and get the team he wants, now is the perfect chance after a, so far, humbling series defeat when most expected a bit more competitiveness.
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adb club cricketer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2270 on: December 18, 2017, 03:42:08 PM »

Most of current good teams are selecting based on form. After just one bad series, India dropped Rahane, Aus dropped Handscomb, SA dropped De Kock  etc despite great performances before their bad form kicked in. And in all cases, newcomers have performed despite criticisms selectors faced initially.  One thing is clear, international cricket is not the venue to work your way out of a bad form, you should be in form already and hit the ground running. However Eng keep persisting with Cook despite repeated failures against top sides in last 5 years. Even England ODI side was able to turn tide few years ago after making bold decisions and getting rid of "reputation" players who haven't performed. Unless England dare to drop Cook (and let him work his way back into team based on performance just like everybody else), they won't improve. You can't win games against difficult oppositions having an opener who is a sitting duck to any form of good bowling. To add to it, the way Cook looks at the crease is so tentative and nervous-like, it doesn't help the other batsmen mentally either.
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Rob580

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2271 on: December 18, 2017, 03:52:46 PM »

Yes, but none of them had 150 tests, and 11,000 runs behind them.

If he wants to stop playing, let him, if he wants to carry on, let him. He deserves at least that much for everything he has given England cricket. We'll just end up with a Chanderpaul situation, where they get rid of an excellent senior pro, don't give him the respect he deserves and then he smashes up county attacks for fun.

That's where the issue lies, county cricket simply isn't good enough to produce / prepare players for test match cricket. 
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Alvaro

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2272 on: December 18, 2017, 04:00:43 PM »

@19reading87 I was wrong about Tim Paine
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2273 on: December 18, 2017, 04:15:08 PM »

A captain is only as good as his team.

I don't think root should have been made captain in the first place, best players don't always make good leaders. My experiences have been they can't convey their point clearly, then can't understand why others can't perform what they can/want.

But there's no outstanding candidate to me, From the way he speaks to the media I think Bairstow could make a good captain but he's not much experience as a skipper let alone him having gloves and expected to perform with bat its too much.

You can't take the job from root after a year in the job. Got to let him reshuffle the pack and get the team he wants, now is the perfect chance after a, so far, humbling series defeat when most expected a bit more competitiveness.
I think root  could reshuffle  and get the team he wants but it might not be the  best team available
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2274 on: December 18, 2017, 04:32:34 PM »

I think root  could reshuffle  and get the team he wants but it might not be the  best team available

Didn't he used to share a flat with Gary Ballance?
I have just seen the future of England's No.3 position  :(
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 04:43:30 PM by WalkingWicket37 »
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alexhilly1492

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2275 on: December 18, 2017, 04:49:05 PM »

Didn't he used to share a flat with Gary Ballance?
I have just seen the future of England's No.3 position  :(

yes he did, this bothers me somewhat!

weve seen that root likes ballance in the team already he picked him vs South Africa remember or that how it appeared anyway
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joeljonno

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2276 on: December 18, 2017, 05:43:24 PM »

Most of current good teams are selecting based on form. After just one bad series, India dropped Rahane, Aus dropped Handscomb, SA dropped De Kock  etc despite great performances before their bad form kicked in. And in all cases, newcomers have performed despite criticisms selectors faced initially.  One thing is clear, international cricket is not the venue to work your way out of a bad form, you should be in form already and hit the ground running. However Eng keep persisting with Cook despite repeated failures against top sides in last 5 years. Even England ODI side was able to turn tide few years ago after making bold decisions and getting rid of "reputation" players who haven't performed. Unless England dare to drop Cook (and let him work his way back into team based on performance just like everybody else), they won't improve. You can't win games against difficult oppositions having an opener who is a sitting duck to any form of good bowling. To add to it, the way Cook looks at the crease is so tentative and nervous-like, it doesn't help the other batsmen mentally either.

Cook have averaged 33.5 vs SA and 60.8 vs WI. It’s not really droppable form since he gave up the captaincy. It’s only now he is struggling.
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joeljonno

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2277 on: December 18, 2017, 05:46:52 PM »

yes he did, this bothers me somewhat!

weve seen that root likes ballance in the team already he picked him vs South Africa remember or that how it appeared anyway

To be fair, Ballance was picked on form vs SA. He was averaging something like 100 in CC at the time.
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Big Mac

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2278 on: December 18, 2017, 05:58:31 PM »

Is this the bit where we pretend that Stokes bowls 95mph thunderbolts which would have differentiated himself from the rest of the attack, Mason Crane (FC average 44) is the answer to all our problems, where Mark Wood isn't an injury prone bowler who just took 1 for 197 across two tests this summer before getting injured and Liam Plunkett played more than two FC games for Yorkshire all season and is therefore totally fit enough to play a test series in Australia?
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beaver5

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2279 on: December 18, 2017, 07:03:12 PM »

That's where the issue lies, county cricket simply isn't good enough to produce / prepare players for test match cricket.

I don't agree with this. Many of the 'Great' West Indies players of the 70's & 80's said they came to play county cricket as a type of 'finishing school' to get overs and runs under their belt. There are many world class players that have come through county cricket over the years: Botham, Willis, Gower, Gooch, Atherton, Thorpe, Stewart, Gough, Russell, Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard, Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, KP, Root, Anderson, Broad, Swann & Stokes to name a few. The fact is county cricket produces cricketers who are suited to English conditions which isn't the same as playing in Indian, SA or Australia. The key is recognising players who can thrive at the next level and have the right skills set and temperament to perform in and outside of England. This is where we are all to often found wanting, especially on this tour. 
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