Topic: Ashes 2017-18 (Read 407360 times)

alexhilly1492 · « **Reply #2280 on:** December 18, 2017, 07:33:42 PM »

Quote from: joeljonno on December 18, 2017, 05:46:52 PM

To be fair, Ballance was picked on form vs SA. He was averaging something like 100 in CC at the time.

But had refused to change his technique which led to failure and was found out again....

Northern monkey · « **Reply #2281 on:** December 18, 2017, 07:38:00 PM »

Quote from: beaver5 on December 18, 2017, 07:03:12 PM

I don't agree with this. Many of the 'Great' West Indies players of the 70's & 80's said they came to play county cricket as a type of 'finishing school' to get overs and runs under their belt. There are many world class players that have come through county cricket over the years: Botham, Willis, Gower, Gooch, Atherton, Thorpe, Stewart, Gough, Russell, Flintoff, Harmison, Hoggard, Trescothick, Strauss, Cook, KP, Root, Anderson, Broad, Swann & Stokes to name a few. The fact is county cricket produces cricketers who are suited to English conditions which isn't the same as playing in Indian, SA or Australia. The key is recognising players who can thrive at the next level and have the right skills set and temperament to perform in and outside of England. This is where we are all to often found wanting, especially on this tour.

Anderson?
How long did he play county?
I know he went back to Lancashire when the England idiots dropped him for his action for a bit
Wasn't aware he played much before tho

Big Mac · « **Reply #2282 on:** December 18, 2017, 08:12:03 PM »

A big problem is the way county cricket has been sidelined in favour of T20. The best part of the summer is dedicated to T20 games because they bring in the money, there are a couple of periods where teams have almost an entire month off between county championship games which is bonkers. There are as many games played in April as there are in July and August combined.

If first class games are going to be played predominantly on early season juicy green wickets instead of roads baked in the summer sun then is it any surprise that the system churns out stereotypical English seamers who put it outside off at 80-84 mph and hope for the best?

beaver5 · « **Reply #2283 on:** December 18, 2017, 08:13:03 PM »

No he hadn't played much but that was where he was spotted. There is talent in county cricket, but I'm not sure it's always been identified. Temperament as well as skill is important to step up, and that's not just a team player. Determined, driven - who has this is? That is what they should be looking for as well as potential.

sanredrose · « **Reply #2284 on:** December 18, 2017, 08:25:16 PM »

Well played Australia! England have to improve a lot if they wish to finish the series 3-2.

sanredrose · « **Reply #2285 on:** December 18, 2017, 08:30:16 PM »

Quote from: mattdawson on December 18, 2017, 03:38:38 PM

best players don't always make good leaders. My experiences have been they can't convey their point clearly, then can't understand why others can't perform what they can/want.

Steve Smith proves you wrong! But I agree, some of the great players are incapable of conveying their point clearly and can't really understand why others fail to perform.

Root has spent less than a year in this role. If he feels that its holding him back, then he should give up captaincy. If he feels it too early to make such calls. Either way, it should be Root's call rather than ECB meddling with it.

ppccopener · « **Reply #2286 on:** December 18, 2017, 08:39:01 PM »

Quote from: WalkingWicket37 on December 18, 2017, 03:00:27 PM

Left field choice - Vince for captain

He's skippered Hampshire for yonks and has previously captained the Lions.

Oh, to have James Taylor back

That is pretty left field. In the modern game perhaps the role of the captain has changed, there is a lot of support now it's not like the skipper has to organise everything from team tactics,selection and the Christmas fancy dress.

I'm not saying one of us hackers could captain the team, what I'm saying its it's less important now who does it than previously .

The most important thing is we compete, and our very best players are un burdened.

Seniorplayer · « **Reply #2287 on:** December 18, 2017, 08:49:54 PM »

Quote from: beaver5 on December 18, 2017, 08:13:03 PM

No he hadn't played much but that was where he was spotted. There is talent in county cricket, but I'm not sure it's always been identified. Temperament as well as skill is important to step up, and that's not just a team player. Determined, driven - who has this is? That is what they should be looking for as well as potential.

Also bravehearts fighters guys who stand up make the most of what they have got take them every time

Johnny · « **Reply #2288 on:** December 18, 2017, 08:54:52 PM »

Is root a bad skipper? Seems a lot more proactive and creative than Cook or Strauss ever were.

I think he's still the best bet at the moment, and I reckon his batting will be fine. As previously mentioned, he's always had a poor conversion rate.

This is quite possibly the best team we could have sent. The fact that Stoneman, Vince and Malan have all stood up at various points is encouraging, as they were the perceived weak points. Unfortunately the rest of the team just hasn't performed.

six and out · « **Reply #2289 on:** December 18, 2017, 09:32:36 PM »

Once again Dobell is spot on.....

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21805721/ecb-decade-errors-led-ashes-failure

Biggie Smalls · « **Reply #2290 on:** December 18, 2017, 09:56:06 PM »

Quote from: manno on December 18, 2017, 01:01:04 PM

Tests won in Eng since 2001: Aus - 8
Eng - 11

Tests won in Aus since 2001: Aus - 18
Eng - 4

Just sayin....

Also ,
Last time oz won a test in eng : 2015
Last time eng won a test in oz : 2011

Whitewashes since 2001 :
Eng : 0
Oz : 2 ( soon 3 ?)

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #2291 on:** December 18, 2017, 10:38:14 PM »

England will not be competitive in an away ashes series until we discover 2 genuine 90mph bowlers fact. The Aussie conditions will never favour an attack of 80-85mph swing bowlers.
I�m not overly up on the County prospects but I�m not sure we have any in that bracket at all do we?? We see a few bowl 90mph odd for a few overs in T20 but not on a consistent basis. Add in the lack of a decent spinner be that holding or attacking and we will struggle to beat any top tier test side away from Home.

Last time we chucked our beat batsmen of my generation in KP under the bus for the performance in Aus and I honestly think we need to do the same with our bowlers. Broad is done for me as is Ali as a front line bowler, as a lower order bat maybe.

Cook for me is still one of the best opening batsmen in Test cricket although this has been a very poor series, dropping him after 150 tests based on 3 games and 6 innnings in silly talk in my humble opinion. Just as silly as this talk of taking the gloves away from Bairstow. We actually have Batting options and have seen Malan and Stoneman come good and Vince although not to the same degree so time to leave the batsmen alone after this series I think and fix what we have all known deep down is quite a weak bowling line up anywhere away from Blighty

ppccopener · « **Reply #2292 on:** December 18, 2017, 11:00:04 PM »

Quote from: SOULMAN1012 on December 18, 2017, 10:38:14 PM

England will not be competitive in an away ashes series until we discover 2 genuine 90mph bowlers fact. The Aussie conditions will never favour an attack of 80-85mph swing bowlers.
I�m not overly up on the County prospects but I�m not sure we have any in that bracket at all do we?? We see a few bowl 90mph odd for a few overs in T20 but not on a consistent basis. Add in the lack of a decent spinner be that holding or attacking and we will struggle to beat any top tier test side away from Home.

Last time we chucked our beat batsmen of my generation in KP under the bus for the performance in Aus and I honestly think we need to do the same with our bowlers. Broad is done for me as is Ali as a front line bowler, as a lower order bat maybe.

Cook for me is still one of the best opening batsmen in Test cricket although this has been a very poor series, dropping him after 150 tests based on 3 games and 6 innnings in silly talk in my humble opinion. Just as silly as this talk of taking the gloves away from Bairstow. We actually have Batting options and have seen Malan and Stoneman come good and Vince although not to the same degree so time to leave the batsmen alone after this series I think and fix what we have all known deep down is quite a weak bowling line up anywhere away from Blighty

Apart from the great West Indies side of the 80's, most top class test bowling teams have had a very good,or great, or a very effective holding, spin bowler...

Who would your spinner be for England ?

It might of helped if we could at least of had a change of angle, left arm over, instead of all right arm medium pace with minimal movement(which you don't get that much of in Oz. So even without express pace just some variety would at least of made them think a bit.

brokenbat · « **Reply #2293 on:** December 18, 2017, 11:32:54 PM »

Quote from: ppccopener on December 18, 2017, 11:00:04 PM

Apart from the great West Indies side of the 80's, most top class test bowling teams have had a very good,or great, or a very effective holding, spin bowler...

Who would your spinner be for England ?

It might of helped if we could at least of had a change of angle, left arm over, instead of all right arm medium pace with minimal movement(which you don't get that much of in Oz. So even without express pace just some variety would at least of made them think a bit.

Here is piers Morgan answering your question: https://youtu.be/oer3826ahs4

ppccopener · « **Reply #2294 on:** December 19, 2017, 12:02:59 AM »

Quote from: brokenbat on December 18, 2017, 11:32:54 PM

Here is piers Morgan answering your question: https://youtu.be/oer3826ahs4

Thanks ! Hmmm. Panesar at this best got good players out but for whatever reason he did not take over when Swann retired. It's odd to think now we had both Swann and panesar together although only very briefly available at their best for England.

But that's the past.

I think myself it's a hard question to answer, I think crane will play the last two tests, and I think if stokes would of played this series, that would of created a gap to play 2 spinners without weakening the batting (stokes at 6, Bairstow 7)

But what's done is done. England have to find about about Crane and he is on the tour.

Author Topic: Ashes 2017-18 (Read 407360 times)

alexhilly1492

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Northern monkey

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Big Mac

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beaver5

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sanredrose

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sanredrose

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ppccopener

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Seniorplayer

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Johnny

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six and out

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Biggie Smalls

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SOULMAN1012

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ppccopener

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brokenbat

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ppccopener

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