Ashes 2017-18
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Biggie Smalls

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2325 on: December 19, 2017, 10:17:45 PM »
Quote from: Kulli on December 19, 2017, 11:08:44 AM
Can't we just feed out bowlers whatever it is they have been feeding Hazelwood, pretty sure he hasn't always been that quick? Has he been to Russia recently?  ;)


In adelaide he bowled 3 of his 6 quickest ever deliveries . Instead of bowling 135kph ish with an occasional 138-9kph ball , he is consistently bowling 140+kph with the occasional ball up around 146kph . So , you are right ,he is bowling considerably quicker than he has previously .

Mozhet byt' , on byl v Rossii !!!!
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2326 on: December 19, 2017, 11:56:26 PM »
Quote from: northernboy1987 on December 19, 2017, 03:42:26 PM
Surely you couldn't pick a no 11 bat who was only going to bowl less than 8 overs a day? Plus can he even bowl 8 overs in a day? He doesn't play any 50 over cricket anymore I don't think.

I’m certain conditions for certain tours why not?? Johnson was only bowing limited overs in the last ashes series and Starc has not bowled as many overs as the others. I was not making a case for Mills it particular more so that when we do discover have someone who is express pace we manage there workload to get the best out of them.
Is it any different to the amount of times a spinner is picked in test sides and doesn’t bowl in 1st innings and bowls minimal in 2nd because the conditions suit seam bowling?

My case is how do England nurture and use a talent when we find one like other countries do espically with there quicks
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Nmcgee

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2327 on: December 20, 2017, 03:14:11 AM »
The English team need to show some mongrel. Some attitude. Get a little bit nasty. Get a little boorish. Get in their face.
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Number4

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2328 on: December 20, 2017, 04:22:42 AM »
Quote from: Nmcgee on December 20, 2017, 03:14:11 AM
The English team need to show some mongrel. Some attitude. Get a little bit nasty. Get a little boorish. Get in their face.

I’m sure they will.... Just let them finish their cup of Twinings and cucumber sandwiches
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Number4

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2329 on: December 20, 2017, 05:16:01 AM »
Steve Smiths average in Boxing Day test matches = 127.6
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northernboy1987

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2330 on: December 20, 2017, 08:36:35 AM »
Quote from: SOULMAN1012 on December 19, 2017, 11:56:26 PM
I’m certain conditions for certain tours why not?? Johnson was only bowing limited overs in the last ashes series and Starc has not bowled as many overs as the others. I was not making a case for Mills it particular more so that when we do discover have someone who is express pace we manage there workload to get the best out of them.
Is it any different to the amount of times a spinner is picked in test sides and doesn’t bowl in 1st innings and bowls minimal in 2nd because the conditions suit seam bowling?

My case is how do England nurture and use a talent when we find one like other countries do espically with there quicks

The difference to me is that if the track changes the spinner is able to bowl at lot more overs, if the track suits express pace Mills is still only giving you 8 overs a day it's just a poor rate of return imo. But I follow your logic regarding managing work load of express quicks, problem is all of ours can't bowl fast enough, long enough without breaking down injured, during his first Test run Wood was consistently bowling his first spell around 90mph, this summer his opening spells were only around 85mph which, if he's not moving the ball or bowling with control either, isn't a lot of use.
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2331 on: December 20, 2017, 08:45:10 AM »
The more I think about it the more the management need to take responsibility, the Aussies looked after there team and quicks for months prior to the Ashes, we picked a team of same bowlers
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sanredrose

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2332 on: December 20, 2017, 08:53:07 AM »
Quote from: SOULMAN1012 on December 20, 2017, 08:45:10 AM
The more I think about it the more the management need to take responsibility, the Aussies looked after there team and quicks for months prior to the Ashes, we picked a team of same bowlers

Exactly. Citing upcoming tours Aus management could rest their premium fast bowler Starc for the remaining two tests.
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2333 on: December 20, 2017, 10:02:53 AM »
Quote from: manno on December 19, 2017, 09:48:02 PM
Of course the series win column is the most important stat. But look beyond that and youll see Englands purported dominance over Australia in England is highly overstated. Ive read several people in this thread claim if the series were played in eng then the results would be reversed. Thats simply a fairytale to help Eng supporters sleep at night. Statistically/historically its just not accurate.

England in real danger of suffering yet another white-wash. Boof reported saying the shackles can now come off the Australian players for the last two tests. Scary for eng as so far Warner in particular has been VERY restrained.
Not at all a Fairytale   England  bowlers in the UK are experts at late swing in and out and that's without cloud cover and green tops morning dew Duke ball day night  matches etc  stats show in more recent times Aussie Backfoot batters  in tests in the UK weren't  that great.
And you never know jimmy could still be around hoop the ball around corners.
Can't wait for 2019  Ashes series.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 10:16:20 AM by Seniorplayer »
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2334 on: December 20, 2017, 10:05:40 AM »
Quote from: sanredrose on December 20, 2017, 08:53:07 AM
Exactly. Citing upcoming tours Aus management could rest their premium fast bowler Starc for the remaining two tests.
Yes 2 of the 3 quicks didn't tour shows how much Australia wanted these Ashes.
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Number4

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2335 on: December 20, 2017, 10:58:43 AM »
Quote from: Seniorplayer on December 20, 2017, 10:02:53 AM
Not at all a Fairytale   England  bowlers in the UK are experts at late swing in and out and that's without cloud cover and green tops morning dew Duke ball day night  matches etc  stats show in more recent times Aussie Backfoot batters  in tests in the UK weren't  that great.
And you never know jimmy could still be around hoop the ball around corners.
Can't wait for 2019  Ashes series.

I think you are grasping at straws here.. The main players left from the last series is Warner, Smith, Starc & Lyon. Hazlewood was inexperienced back then and is a far better bowler now. Mitch Marsh was there.. He wasn’t great with the bat but averaged 18 with the ball dismissing both Root and Stokes ( Stokes twice)

Are you forgetting how close the last series was?
1st Test - England by 169 runs
2nd Test - Australia by 405 runs
3rd Test - England by 8 wickets
4th Test - England by an innings and 8 runs
5th Test - Australia by 46 runs

Compare apples with apples these are 2 different sides and at the moment one is better than the other.... 2 years times it could be different again
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2336 on: December 20, 2017, 12:39:33 PM »
Quote from: Number4 on December 20, 2017, 10:58:43 AM
I think you are grasping at straws here.. The main players left from the last series is Warner, Smith, Starc & Lyon. Hazlewood was inexperienced back then and is a far better bowler now. Mitch Marsh was there.. He wasn’t great with the bat but averaged 18 with the ball dismissing both Root and Stokes ( Stokes twice)

Are you forgetting how close the last series was?
1st Test - England by 169 runs
2nd Test - Australia by 405 runs
3rd Test - England by 8 wickets
4th Test - England by an innings and 8 runs
5th Test - Australia by 46 runs

Compare apples with apples these are 2 different sides and at the moment one is better than the other.... 2 years times it could be different again
Haven't really compared apples
 England with the above and in Uk like all home test teams will have the advantage regardless of who the English bowlers are  they will know how to use the conditions more so than the Aussies and as we know bowlers win matches.
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manno

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2337 on: December 20, 2017, 02:29:04 PM »
Not denying your bowlers arent much better suited to home conditions, they clearly are. Im just saying, claiming england test = england win, almost as default, is a fairytale. Because history says its not a given.
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edge

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2338 on: December 20, 2017, 02:36:15 PM »
Way things are going, the Ashes should be played in South Africa, we might see some less predictable series then! Only thing that keeps Australia in it in in England is us being hospitable enough to roll out flat ones at Lord's and the Oval every series.

Probably time for Bayliss to be ushered off and someone who knows county cricket brought in. Given he's not a technical caoch I don't really see what he brings.  Wasn't a fan of making Root captain but as he is he should get a he chance to rebuild the team his way, pick someone young and gusty as vice (Stokes would have been ideal!) and give Root a good hearing in selection meetings.
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joeljonno

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2339 on: December 20, 2017, 02:38:21 PM »
Quote from: manno on December 20, 2017, 02:29:04 PM
Not denying your bowlers arent much better suited to home conditions, they clearly are. Im just saying, claiming england test = england win, almost as default, is a fairytale. Because history says its not a given.

I think the difference is that England will regularly take 20 wickets in England if needed, yet they struggle to take more than 10-12 in Australia.

And you know what they say, you have to take 20 wickets to win a test match.
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