Ashes 2017-18
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LateBloomer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2910 on: January 08, 2018, 10:19:51 AM »

Been to plenty of places where I’ve seen mates killed. There is a big difference between that real stuff and people being goby on a sports field fella. Still, if it makes you feel better sure.. I’d run away

Active service is admirable but completely irrelevant to this conversation

Stop pretending you have the masterplan to cure the England Test team. All you can come up with is 'too much whiteball' etc. Well guess what - the Australian team that has just beaten us comprehensively plays a load of white ball cricket aswell.

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LateBloomer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2911 on: January 08, 2018, 10:27:23 AM »

I would say Curran would be behind Overton in impressing with his bowling, but I'm willing to consider neutral - he didn't do much wrong.

You're judging Crane on a single bowl on a featherbed against the whole series that Ali got?

I agree with you on Crane, thought he bowled well in the circumstances and was unlucky not to take more wickets, particularly Mitch early on who he had in trouble

Both showed fight but I dont think Curran and Overton are quite good enough for Test cricket at the moment. I wouldnt begrudge either a place in the squad for NZ but I would look to get TRJ back in as soon as fit with a view to getting Helm and/or Garton involved when possible

I think Mo Ali should be rested/dropped for NZ series. Must be shot mentally. Go back to worcester and hammer the door down with runs and wickets.

« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 10:32:35 AM by LateBloomer »
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Number4

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2912 on: January 08, 2018, 10:38:37 AM »

I’d definitely give Curran a neutral. He scored more runs than Bairstow and Vince in the 2 matches he played in and he was in as more a bowler
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FattusCattus

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2913 on: January 08, 2018, 10:40:24 AM »

I think I read TRJ might be fit for NZ - does anyone know if that is the case? He might be quite useful on their wickets.
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petehosk

Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2914 on: January 08, 2018, 10:40:49 AM »

Active service is admirable but completely irrelevant to this conversation

Stop pretending you have the masterplan to cure the England Test team. All you can come up with is 'too much whiteball' etc. Well guess what - the Australian team that has just beaten us comprehensively plays a load of white ball cricket aswell.

Jim - all have a Masterplan and our own opinions...not just Adie.
So let's please try and keep this general and not too personal?
And whilst you are at it, please concede that any Masterplan I come up with is better than anyone else's on here!?  ;)
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LateBloomer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2915 on: January 08, 2018, 10:45:52 AM »

Jim - all have a Masterplan and our own opinions...not just Adie.
So let's please try and keep this general and not too personal?
And whilst you are at it, please concede that any Masterplan I come up with is better than anyone else's on here!?  ;)

I dare say any plan of yours would have some more substance behind it Pete.

England have been outplayed away from home by better players. Theres my masterplan
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Kulli

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2916 on: January 08, 2018, 10:50:37 AM »

I think I read TRJ might be fit for NZ - does anyone know if that is the case? He might be quite useful on their wickets.

Might be making this up, but sure I heard/read in an interview that he was back bowling in nets just before xmas, so it's possible.
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rickjames

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2917 on: January 08, 2018, 11:13:42 AM »

Can we sack the selectors?
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petehosk

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2918 on: January 08, 2018, 11:17:38 AM »

I dare say any plan of yours would have some more substance behind it Pete.

England have been outplayed away from home by better players. Theres my masterplan

Don't disagree with that statement! The Aussies had plans and stuck to them. Some of their players hit decent form and the ones that didn't ground it out!
The sad thing is that we knew the plans for Aussie bowling and yet some batsmen still kept falling for them!
Really unsure what plans England had and unsure whether the English players were aware either!
In this series we were well and truly outplayed. The Aussies did the simple things better, stuck to their plans and were patient! Their bowling on those wickets was perfect they were relentless! Well done to them.
The most important thing for us now is to see where mistakes were made (repeatedly in some cases) and decide on how this mistakes or weaknesses can be worked on! No point in just covering things over! For example, Vince continuously giving slip catching practice! Ali getting out to Gaarrryy most of the time! There are 2 off the top of my head that need addressing and working on. Inconsistency of Cooks' batting, Roots' inability to turn 50s into 100s  there are two more.  Granted they are not the more pressing, but they need to work on those too! And don't even get me started on our bowling!  ;) 
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FattusCattus

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2919 on: January 08, 2018, 11:37:23 AM »

So we're all agreed that it was only our bowling, batting, some of our fielding, the coaching and mental toughness that let us down?
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HellomynameisJ

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2920 on: January 08, 2018, 11:47:08 AM »

From an Aussie perspective, it was refreshing to see everyone contributing, Smith is class, lyon is the best spinner in test cricket, bancroft shouldnt make it to SA, and khawaja barely booked a ticket. If Mitch Marsh can keep making runs, his bowling will be more than handy on greener pitches. For me Pat Cummins was my man of the series, he will have games where he will bowl far worse than he has and take bag fulls, also could turn into a genuine all rounder, the kid can bat. Hazelwood and starc could have been better. What more could you ask of shaun marsh?.. Tim Paine made the selectors look very good at the job, its a real shame his injuries have robbed him of a very respectable international career


As for england, stoneman looked serviceable, cook was ok.. vince wont make a career out of pretty 30odds and Malan copped some good balls at bad times. Lyon very well may have ender Ali's career. Root got starts and its pretty clear comparing he and smith the different between the good and the great. Broad ehh. Anderson was good, i just get the feeling that the rest of englands bowling attack are just keeping seats warm. Bairstow looked okay, expected far more from him to be honest. And woakes doesnt really bowl or bat well enough to be considered anything close to an all rounder.

How much difference would Stokes have made? Probably not enough to change the end result but we will never know, but i do know he has let himself and his country down massively.
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2921 on: January 08, 2018, 01:58:51 PM »

Do you feel the Woakes assessment is fair @Seniorplayer ?
Wrote at start of this thread  he would probably  get six wickets but that was each match not all series.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 02:07:12 PM by Seniorplayer »
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2922 on: January 08, 2018, 02:04:48 PM »

Active service is admirable but completely irrelevant to this conversation

Stop pretending you have the masterplan to cure the England Test team. All you can come up with is 'too much whiteball' etc. Well guess what - the Australian team that has just beaten us comprehensively plays a load of white ball cricket aswell.

money's on  England to win the white ball series in the UK this Summer.
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Seniorplayer

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2923 on: January 08, 2018, 02:06:07 PM »

I think I read TRJ might be fit for NZ - does anyone know if that is the case? He might be quite useful on their wickets.

Yes also read it.
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Manormanic

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Re: Ashes 2017-18
« Reply #2924 on: January 08, 2018, 02:48:22 PM »

From an Aussie perspective, it was refreshing to see everyone contributing, Smith is class, lyon is the best spinner in test cricket, bancroft shouldnt make it to SA, and khawaja barely booked a ticket. If Mitch Marsh can keep making runs, his bowling will be more than handy on greener pitches. For me Pat Cummins was my man of the series, he will have games where he will bowl far worse than he has and take bag fulls, also could turn into a genuine all rounder, the kid can bat. Hazelwood and starc could have been better. What more could you ask of shaun marsh?.. Tim Paine made the selectors look very good at the job, its a real shame his injuries have robbed him of a very respectable international career


As for england, stoneman looked serviceable, cook was ok.. vince wont make a career out of pretty 30odds and Malan copped some good balls at bad times. Lyon very well may have ender Ali's career. Root got starts and its pretty clear comparing he and smith the different between the good and the great. Broad ehh. Anderson was good, i just get the feeling that the rest of englands bowling attack are just keeping seats warm. Bairstow looked okay, expected far more from him to be honest. And woakes doesnt really bowl or bat well enough to be considered anything close to an all rounder.

How much difference would Stokes have made? Probably not enough to change the end result but we will never know, but i do know he has let himself and his country down massively.

To be fair to YJB. he spent the first two games slogging with the tail, and copped an unplayable ball in the second innings at Perth when the pitch had not dried.  He is one of the few England player who can honestly say he outperformed his opposite number.

The Stokes question is interesting.  Personally I think he would have made a massive difference - England would have fielded a balanced side throughout, and crucially would have had a bowler who could get the ball off straight in Australian conditions with his reverse swing.  Would he have closed the gap enough to change the series result?  Unlikely. Would he have changed the results of individual tests?  Maybe.
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