Hampshire League in trouble...
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mo_town

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2018, 10:20:49 AM »

Exactly.. if you can’t bowl a team out without them slogging then you don’t deserve to win. Draw is way more tactical and so actually more interesting. However, it’s got a bad rep even though win lose produces just as many boring games.

Either way, it is what it is so we either play the formats or walk away.

I think you are missing the point here...I was referring to lower divisions where most youngsters/teens play. These games do not have a neutral umpire. Players from the batting team umpire which virtually takes the LBW option out. Without the fear of LBW, batsmen just cover the stumps and block things out. Why would a young kid enjoy playing such a game? Agreed that in win/lose games you will have times when the opposition put on 300+ and you dont stand a chance but those occasions are rare, maybe a game or two in the entire season. If that happens regularly then clearly the team isnt capable of playing at that level.
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six and out

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2018, 12:44:59 PM »

interesting debate regards win/lose and draw cricket - especially as our league are moving to win/lose cricket (40 overs) from draw (44 overs) this season.

i personally think there is a place for both types of cricket but that draw cricket can easily be fixed/made a lot better by changing the points system in the league, which i feel not that many leagues actually consider.

If you simply don't reward the losing draw at all (but still have it as an option) then teams are forced to go for it. Also i have often seen some ridiculous scores batting 1st when the team then said 'oh they just didn't go for it' - well declare then..... back your bowlers, give yourself more overs, give the team a target to get.

I do agree that youngsters get frustrated with long days etc..... but i have never seen a youngster come off the field at 7.30/8pm saying they have had a bad day if they win it in the last over of a draw game.

Win/Lose or draw cricket in my opinion is simply not the problem - stuff like ridiculously bad over rates, stupid points systems, general league set ups eg. to many teams in each div, no school cricket, the lack of/dying out of Sunday cricket - these are far bigger issues
 
 
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JK Lewis

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2018, 01:59:04 PM »

Umpiring I get, but surely someone can teach them to score! Can even download an app to do it in if they like. making tea's and setting up I'm sure they could also manage some part of. I certainly never escaped sightscreen, covers, boundary rope or pavilion shutters duty when I was a kid.

Ha ha ha bloody snowflakes my lot! We have started to teach them scoring, but when the side is short it is actually quite an effort during the game. 2 umps, 2 batters everyone else with pads on, not much time to explain how to mark a wide or whatever, and keep the book accurate. Got into a bit of a ruck after a game we won by 1 run, but they counted up and their book had our score 9 runs lower than ours!
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Kulli

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2018, 02:14:11 PM »

Ha ha ha bloody snowflakes my lot! We have started to teach them scoring, but when the side is short it is actually quite an effort during the game. 2 umps, 2 batters everyone else with pads on, not much time to explain how to mark a wide or whatever, and keep the book accurate. Got into a bit of a ruck after a game we won by 1 run, but they counted up and their book had our score 9 runs lower than ours!

Not sure sitting getting pad rash disqualifies you from showing someone how to score ;)
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2018, 02:45:59 PM »

Ha ha ha bloody snowflakes my lot! We have started to teach them scoring, but when the side is short it is actually quite an effort during the game. 2 umps, 2 batters everyone else with pads on, not much time to explain how to mark a wide or whatever, and keep the book accurate. Got into a bit of a ruck after a game we won by 1 run, but they counted up and their book had our score 9 runs lower than ours!

Why have you got 7 people padded up in the hutch? ???
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2018, 02:57:37 PM »

Oh, yes, the scorebook!  You lot are certainly doing your best to remind me why I have little enthusiasm for playing this year.

I never thought retirement would be like this. I imagined going out like Chris Read.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2018, 05:59:40 PM »

I think you are missing the point here...I was referring to lower divisions where most youngsters/teens play. These games do not have a neutral umpire. Players from the batting team umpire which virtually takes the LBW option out. Without the fear of LBW, batsmen just cover the stumps and block things out. Why would a young kid enjoy playing such a game? Agreed that in win/lose games you will have times when the opposition put on 300+ and you dont stand a chance but those occasions are rare, maybe a game or two in the entire season. If that happens regularly then clearly the team isnt capable of playing at that level.

I think you’re missing the point too. This is amateur Cricket where while winning is what All 22 players should be going for, the win, it’s about participation and enjoyment equally.the game has the ability to play a format which caters for more skill sets, more tactical know how and allows more drama to unfold,as well as a format for the more aggressive players. So play 18ganes a year, half for the hitters, half for the others.. that way all tastes and styles are catered for.

It’s not all about the young kid either, young kids don’t run teams generally or fetch and carry etc. It’s not all about what young kids want. It’s about what is best for all styles of player so you attract and keep ALL styles of players. If you only play shorter and shorter formats in win lose you merely keep cutting the audience you’re appealing to.

As stated, for every ‘young kid’ you attract (who generally will be aggressive hitter) you’ll lose a young kid who can’t or doesn’t want to do that. Then you have the adults who age who can’t score at said rates either and don’t enjoy said formats.. so you lose another potentially

One format isn’t the answer. Leagues need to play half and half to cater for all styles and tastes but also to ensure the best all round teams win leagues.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 06:01:25 PM by RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie »
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2018, 06:20:50 PM »

People have became more selfish, generally? Co-operation and the collective good less valued?

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ProCricketer1982

Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2018, 06:40:05 PM »

People have became more selfish, generally? Co-operation and the collective good less valued?

Society is generally more selfish and more aggressive to each other. That’s not limited to Just Cricket.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2018, 06:45:44 PM »

Society is generally more selfish and more aggressive to each other. That’s not limited to Just Cricket.

Yes, that was my point. We have become a nation of shower avoiders.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2018, 06:59:48 PM »

Yes, that was my point. We have become a nation of shower avoiders.

Well I have no idea how many used to shower back in the day.. I suspect a similar amount didn’t
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2018, 07:11:09 PM »

Well I have no idea how many used to shower back in the day.. I suspect a similar amount didn’t

No, shower avoiders were definitely the minority; whereas they are now the majority.
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Manormanic

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2018, 07:12:38 PM »

People have became more selfish, generally? Co-operation and the collective good less valued?

I certainly remember when I was a youngster, there were three older guys (well, guys who had hit 30.  Youngsters, I'd now call em) who batted six, seven and nine and rarely bowled so that the younger lads could have a proper go and learn the game.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2018, 07:14:42 PM »

I certainly remember when I was a youngster, there were three older guys (well, guys who had hit 30.  Youngsters, I'd now call em) who batted six, seven and nine and rarely bowled so that the younger lads could have a proper go and learn the game.

However, you look back at scorecards and it shows a lot of teams had a hierarchy who always batted and bowled and a few lads made up the numbers (young fielders) and it was accepted as ‘the way’.

Again, I don’t know enough about the good old days but I suspect they were t a sperfect either.
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LateBloomer

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Re: Hampshire League in trouble...
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2018, 01:00:26 PM »

I certainly remember when I was a youngster, there were three older guys (well, guys who had hit 30.  Youngsters, I'd now call em) who batted six, seven and nine and rarely bowled so that the younger lads could have a proper go and learn the game.

I was lucky enough to enjoy a similar set up in my first few years in mens cricket. We had a couple of bowlers who were 30 plus who always umpired first stint. By the time that ended at least one of the top 3 would be out to take over unpiring with a youth player going out to stand at square leg and count to 6.
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