Topic: England Test Series vs Pakistan (Read 60573 times)

Manormanic · « **on:** May 13, 2018, 03:47:15 PM »

To save the County Championship thread from being sabotaged by Test selection debates, we might as well start this thread a week or two early.

So, Ed Smith's first selection, though with the same captain and coach who wanted the existing bunch of players. A lot of opinions out there as to whether there will be a ginormous "stick" with a squad deemed to be the best available, or a "twist" and opportunities for the next generation of players. Amongst the best points I have heard on the subject is that Smith might decide that the generation of Borthwick, Stoneman, Vince etc has yielded what it has available, and move on to the next generation back and players such as Joe Clarke, Dan Lawrence, Ollie Pope, Sam Curran and Harry Brook.

My thread means I get my points in first. I reckon there are 6 certainties in the side - Cook, Root, Malan, Stokes, Bairstow and Anderson - and that Broad is near enough the seventh. The remaining four slots need one opener, a seamer and two more, which could include a spinner and either another batsman or perhaps a keeper to relieve the perceived stress of YJB.

The incumbents would be Stoneman, Vince, Woakes/Wood and Leach, plus Moeen. Of those, the only one I would probably pick is Leach. Position by position:

Opener:

Stoneman has a reasonable technique, but his temprament has been shown a little flawed, in that he has struggled to score against quality spin and alternate strategies. His start to the season has been poor. At first, it looked like there was no form amongst the other contenders, but there have been suggestions that YJB or Vince might be tried as a more aggressive option, Jennings has been making runs and statistically Rory Burns is due consideration.

Batman/Keeper:

Joe Clarke? Great technique, in form. Ben Foakes likewise, though the effect of taking the gloves off our best player has to be considered.

Seamer:

Whoever we go for has to bring something different to Anderson, Broad and Stokes. For me that rules out Woakes, who has played no red ball cricket, and Craig O. as well as the deserving likes of Porter and Coad. In terms of point of difference that leaves extreme pace, but Jamie O is injured, Plunkett on the IPL bench and Garton has not had much cricket with Sussex or lefties.

My team:

Cook
Eek...at a push, Burns
Malan
Root
Stokes
Bairstow
Clarke
S Curran
Broad
Leach
Anderson

six and out · « **Reply #1 on:** May 13, 2018, 04:20:18 PM »

You have missed the guy who has a very good chance at replacing Stoneman.... Nick Gubbins.

2 matches..... 107 & 99 averaging 71.

Mister Le Chiffre · « **Reply #2 on:** May 13, 2018, 04:52:25 PM »

Think Jennings is the chap getting another go.

ppccopener · « **Reply #3 on:** May 13, 2018, 05:47:44 PM »

Yes I think Jennings is the one the want back, Hameed can't be selected at the moment but the talent and temperament are there, or appear to be to me anyway

This is tricky because selection often has an eye on the future, like picking hameed and Jennings.

On the other hand if Stoneman is dropped its on his County form not test match cricket which he has done 'OK'.

If he was dropped now it's a carbon copy of the Carberry selection, personally I think he deserves this test series myself he is a good solid player....and the Ashes was tough for a lot of batsman.

I'm not sure of the best 11 now, but this is what I think.

A specialist spinner plays, our attack is too ordinary apart from Anderson who remains a class above, so

Leach plays

Keeper/batsman.

Time for a change, Foakes in and Bairstow bats top 5, he may not want to do that but he is one of the best batsman in the land, we need his runs and getting left with the tail in Tests is just ridiculous. If we do play a spinner all the way through we need the best keeper standing up to the Stumps.

Number 3.

Vince is not a number 3, he just is too loose and cannot seem to concentrate. So not in my team

So my team looks like this

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
Leach

The bowling still looks a bit samey with 4 right arm seamers.

You could well argue if we are going to try a new batsman the only way to do that is Bairstow keeps and therefore a spot is available.if so you could have a look at(must be a batsman I think)

Jennings
Clarke....I think this lad has a lot of class
Gubbins
Livingstone
Burns possibly.

The other option is leaving out woakes but I think we need his runs down the order with a tail of Anderson,broad and leach-so not ideal.

Whichever way, England do have selection problems

six and out · « **Reply #4 on:** May 13, 2018, 07:03:21 PM »

This is definatly going to be an interesting squad selection.... on the 1 hand you have the same coach and captain wanting consistently and on the other a new National Selector in Ed Smith wanting to stamp his authority on things with changes etc...

Basing my decisions on that YJB won't give up the gloves and that Root won't move from number 4... my thoughts below...

Openers

Cook definitely playing. Stoneman dropped, harsh but his county form is awful and if your not scoring runs at the oval then you aren't in nick at all. I would select someone new... Nick Gubbins, he is having a great start to the season.

No. 3

I definitely drop Vince and move Malan to bat 3.

Middle Order

Root obviously. Then Joe Clarke comes in, this kid is the goods, scored another 100 this round of CC. Stokes at 6.

WK

Bairstow keeps the gloves and bats 7.

Bowlers

Anderson and Broad pick themselves. I think that we need to play a specialist spinner for variation and Leach did nothing wrong in NZ so keeps his place (although Virdi looks a great prospect). That leaves the last seamer spot, this I honestly think could be 1 of about 5 bowlers.... Woakes, Coad, Porter, Ball, Tongue, Joe Leach.... the list goes on!

My team is...

Cook
Gubbins
Malan
Root
Clarke
Stokes
Bairstow
Broad
Leach
Anderson
Don't know!....see below...

I am really struggling with that last bowler as there are lots to choose from who would possibly be on debut etc... I would love to see a new quick bowler be given a chance... Stone, Tongue or Coad but then I look at our tail and think that maybe we should just stick with Woakes knowing that we will have the back up batting etc...

FattusCattus · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2018, 07:23:33 PM »

Sh*t or bust -

Gubbins
Cook
Jennings
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Curran S
Leach
Broad
Anderson

Buzz · « **Reply #6 on:** May 13, 2018, 07:40:11 PM »

Vince has enough county runs behind him this season and will be picked.
Ditto Jennings will open with Cook. His technique has improved (in a way that Ballance hasn't)

My chat to the powers that be say that the squad will be

Cook
Jennings
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Anderson
Broad
Leach
Curran S (after cleaning up Yorkshire this weekend)

I have seen more of Foakes and Burns this summer thanks to the live streaming. It is clear why Burns isn't being considered from his technique. I think the same about Foakes, he is still a little too open and stiff at the crease for me.
Pope is the most talented of the Surrey batters and has by far the best technique of all of them.

I wouldn't have Vince in my team personally, but Michael Vaughan and Ed Smith are mates so Stoneman will get axed and Vince will stay.
Gubbins is very unlucky and is on the cusp.

Manormanic · « **Reply #7 on:** May 13, 2018, 08:28:32 PM »

Sorry, must have enjoyed Sunday lunch too much. For a moment, I actually thought someone referenced Joe Leach as a potential test pick.

six and out · « **Reply #8 on:** May 13, 2018, 09:31:29 PM »

Quote from: Manormanic on May 13, 2018, 08:28:32 PM

Sorry, must have enjoyed Sunday lunch too much. For a moment, I actually thought someone referenced Joe Leach as a potential test pick.

Sorry @Manormanic but not sure I like the tone of your post. What are you suggesting exactly? That I shouldn't be referencing Leach in this thread and I am stupid to do so?

I merely put him in a long list of bowlers that have done well this season... Leach has 23 wickets @ 22 not to shabby. We have a new order in selection so everyone will be being looked at.

Manormanic · « **Reply #9 on:** May 13, 2018, 09:46:13 PM »

Quote from: six and out on May 13, 2018, 09:31:29 PM

Sorry @Manormanic but not sure I like the tone of your post. What are you suggesting exactly? That I shouldn't be referencing Leach in this thread and I am stupid to do so?

I merely put him in a long list of bowlers that have done well this season... Leach has 23 wickets @ 22 not to shabby. We have a new order in selection so everyone will be being looked at.

Honestly, not sure why I would care if you like the tone of my post. But to answer your question, I'm not doubting it's a sincerely held opinion, but it is one of the stranger ones I've heard.

Fact is, there are certain criteria that are looked for in a test seamer. The ability to bowl above 80mph, and ideally above 85mph, is high on the list. It isn't that I have anything against Leach, who is a wholehearted cricketer, but he bowls mid 70s on a good day. It'd be like me arguing that Steve Patterson should be considered, or Chris citing Darren Stevens. County cricket has had lots of similar players in recent years - Smith and Brown got one test apiece, Lewis two. But Chris Rushworth, Glenn Chapell, Keith Barker, Jack Brooks...all took more wickets, in successful sides, and never got close. Tim Murtagh did play...for Ireland. But if we are declaring Tom Curran too pedestrian when he hits 84...

six and out · « **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2018, 06:06:58 AM »

Quote from: Manormanic on May 13, 2018, 09:46:13 PM

Honestly, not sure why I would care if you like the tone of my post. But to answer your question, I'm not doubting it's a sincerely held opinion, but it is one of the stranger ones I've heard.

Fact is, there are certain criteria that are looked for in a test seamer. The ability to bowl above 80mph, and ideally above 85mph, is high on the list. It isn't that I have anything against Leach, who is a wholehearted cricketer, but he bowls mid 70s on a good day. It'd be like me arguing that Steve Patterson should be considered, or Chris citing Darren Stevens. County cricket has had lots of similar players in recent years - Smith and Brown got one test apiece, Lewis two. But Chris Rushworth, Glenn Chapell, Keith Barker, Jack Brooks...all took more wickets, in successful sides, and never got close. Tim Murtagh did play...for Ireland. But if we are declaring Tom Curran too pedestrian when he hits 84...

You should care how others view your posts. How we talk to each other on this forum should be paramount to everyone.

Of course your points regarding pace and selection are correct and I don't debate those. But we simply don't have anyone quick who is ready to pick (Bairstow was standing up to Coad in the Essex game for example) and that was my point.

jamielsn15 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 14, 2018, 07:43:30 AM »

If all else fails, pick the guys in form...

Cook
Gubbins
Root
Malan
Clarke
Stokes
Bairstow
Woakes
Leach
Broad
Anderson

I wouldn't object to Stoneman being included, but he hasn't really kicked on. Jennings? Meh...

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #12 on:** May 14, 2018, 07:58:50 AM »

I can see James Hildreth getting a call.

FattusCattus · « **Reply #13 on:** May 14, 2018, 08:11:30 AM »

Sadly, I suspect there will be little if any change.

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2018, 08:40:40 AM »

Can�t seen anyone asking or making YJB give up the gloves much like no one will ask or make Root to bat at 3.

Personally think Stoneman needs one more series if after that no hundreds then I�m afraid he will be cast aside.

I think spinner wise is the huge debate and a spot that needs filling ideally in the mould of a Ali replacement that can bat as well but personally not sure who that is and given the green damp wickets generally this early in the year anyone really knows Leach from Somerset did ok so maybe him. Vince I think will stay at 3 although don�t think he should I would like to see Denley personally but that�s because I�m a massive Kent fan but I generally think he has been the most consistent N03 for the last 2 seasons and hit a Ton against Pakistain this month

Author Topic: England Test Series vs Pakistan (Read 60573 times)

Manormanic

England Test Series vs Pakistan

six and out

Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan

Mister Le Chiffre

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ppccopener

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six and out

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FattusCattus

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Buzz

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Manormanic

Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan

six and out

Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan

Manormanic

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six and out

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jamielsn15

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Bats_Entertainment

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FattusCattus

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SOULMAN1012

Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan