England Test Series vs Pakistan
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edge

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #300 on: May 27, 2018, 12:10:16 PM »

Interesting from Bayliss, gets asked about should they have bowled fuller and he's basically gone 'you try telling Jimmy and Broad to bowl fuller, I'm not going to'
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Biggie Smalls

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #301 on: May 27, 2018, 12:10:53 PM »

The 'woulda , coulda , shoulda , wasn't' Eng XII....


Lyth/Stoneman
Robson/Jennings
Hameed
Compton
Vince
Ballance
Foakes/Buttler (wk)
Rashid/Ali/Leach
Overton
T.Curran
Ball
S.Curran

Interesting how you can fill a whole side with them and still have leftovers ( oz has this very same issue ) ......

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i12breakfree

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #302 on: May 27, 2018, 12:17:54 PM »

Joe Root on his knees at silly point.Oh dear.

Not sure why he did that. One can easily get injured at that position. I would say it was irresponsible for him to do that.
No fielding position change would have stopped Pakistan from winning this morning.
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six and out

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #303 on: May 27, 2018, 12:20:05 PM »

Saw this stat on Sky this morning. It really puts into perspective how crap our batting has been for quite a while!


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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #304 on: May 27, 2018, 01:01:18 PM »

This is about so much more than bad choice of personnel. I wish some of you would wake up to the fact.
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KD4

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #305 on: May 27, 2018, 01:30:44 PM »

Interesting from Bayliss, gets asked about should they have bowled fuller and he's basically gone 'you try telling Jimmy and Broad to bowl fuller, I'm not going to'

He also said that Anderson prefers to bowl that slightly shorter to starve the batsman of runs and then pitch it up.

Fair play to the forumites who saw this coming because I didn't. I thought we'd win because of the conditions and how inexperienced the Pakistan team was. Credit to them they outplayed us in all 3 departments.
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kdale6

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #306 on: May 27, 2018, 01:35:08 PM »

Interesting from Bayliss, gets asked about should they have bowled fuller and he's basically gone 'you try telling Jimmy and Broad to bowl fuller, I'm not going to'

That screams of just spineless management really. I understand they’ve taken shed loads of wickets etc but to use a football analogy,  no players bigger than the club

It’s been mentioned by others by Bayliss has to take some responsibility for this, the coach sets the strategy or as they like to term it now, the ‘brand’ of cricket. He first started tinkering the set up of the top order to have two aggressive players in the top 3. For me, the rot started there and has spread throughout the whole team.

We have an ODI mentality in a 5 day game that presents a whole set of different challenges.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #307 on: May 27, 2018, 02:05:51 PM »



We have an ODI mentality in a 5 day game that presents a whole set of different challenges.

To lose is bad.. to lose like this is yet another embarrassment. Are they embarrassed? Nah

Do they care ? Not really, they’ll make up so PR crap and ‘go again’ next time.. still raking in the cash.

At least someone else ha finally realised we have a load of white ball mentality players who are unable to adapt to red ball Cricket consistently (yes, I’m sure they will do it the odd time but test cricket is about consistency!)

Sack the coach if you want but that will change nothing.
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rickjames

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #308 on: May 27, 2018, 02:23:18 PM »

Above, but enlarged



At least I got a 50% refund today
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billyb

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #309 on: May 27, 2018, 02:30:32 PM »

It is no secret that England have many, many problems in the Test arena, but they go beyond whether Buttler or Vince get's picked.
Clearly, the current coaching set-up isn't working. The meteoric rise of the ODI team has been matched by the plummet of the Test team.

England are a group of individuals, not a team in test matches. There's no solidity, no camaraderie and so on. Look at Pakistan- a team of fairly average players, with an inspirational captain and a fantastic team belief, ethic and spirit. 'The whole is greater than the sum of its parts'. Pakistan are a whole- England are literally just a few decent players, here and there.

We need pretty drastic change to the test team. Bayliss needs to go, and we need a genuine test specialist. I don't buy into this 'nice' captain nonsense that Root and to a lesser extent Cook have been all about. We need a captain that isn't afraid to be loud, angry with his players and also be an inspirational figure. Root's interviews make me cringe, honestly. He couldn't say boo to a goose- and a couple of his 'candid' ones have shown how disunited and factional the team is in places. I'm not on about a KP/Prior situation at all- I mean the players not sticking together, there not being that vital, central buy-in and culture that they need to be successful. You end up with a team of cliques and individuals, which is what we have now. That is why Pakistan will probably win this test series- and if I were a neutral, I'd support them every day of the week. Mercurial, exciting and a true team. If we get beaten, maybe change will happen. We've said that before though... I remember Warne moaning in his autobiography about some military/survival bootcamp they did to mould them as a team, and he may have hated it- but it worked.

We need a Brearley to be able to get the best out of this group of players- maybe just pluck the very best County Captain and give him the team. Alternatively, within the England side I can only see Bairstow with leadership potential, and I'm worried he too might be 'too nice'. The current thing of just giving the best player the captaincy (Root) doesn't work when your team simply isn't very good. We need to be finding genuine leaders again.

Here's what I would suggest- as a temporary measure until we get a better idea of county performances.

Cook
Jennings (Stoneman needs a break).
Malan (looked terrible but he has scored runs this season).
Root (Back to 4)
Bairstow (Captain)
Stokes
Buttler (WK- He scored 50 so he won't be dropped, but I'd rather have Foakes long-term).
Bess (I'm really not convinced by his bowling, but he'll do until Leach is recovered).
SEAM- I have no idea on this one, and I don't think anyone does. Who has the best county record this season? Doesn't matter how slow he is, Philander and Kallis were plenty successful- but must be different to Broad and Anderson. Economical.
Broad
Anderson

More than anything, we need to learn to stick with players. So many players have scored 100s for England lately (even in India) and have then been dropped and ruined by coaching. I get that in this instant-gratification world that isn't natural, but we need to.
This list of names should haunt us, because these are all players we have ultimately failed in developing properly. Ballance (4 100s, 7 50s, 37.50), Hameed (3 50s, 82 in India, 43.00), Jennings (112 in India), Robson and so on.

England's management have made so many poor decisions lately that it is hard to know where to start- but that is my blueprint for right now.




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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #310 on: May 27, 2018, 02:31:44 PM »

Above, but enlarged



At least I got a 50% refund today

And yet..

People still want the same faces in the top six even after these stats
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #311 on: May 27, 2018, 03:18:25 PM »

Please see my previous comment. This is not simply about bad choice of personnel.

Is Rory Burns really likely to do significantly better than Mark Stoneman or Keaton Jennings or Adam Lyth or Sam Robson?

The is about the overall state of English cricket; and, in particular, the impact of T20 greed on it.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #312 on: May 27, 2018, 03:23:57 PM »

Please see my previous comment. This is not simply about bad choice of personnel.

Is Rory Burns really likely to do significantly better than Mark Stoneman or Keaton Jennings or Adam Lyth or Sam Robson?

The is about the overall state of English cricket; and, in particular, the impact of T20 greed on it.

Quite agree fella
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Seniorplayer

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #313 on: May 27, 2018, 03:37:26 PM »

Interesting from Bayliss, gets asked about should they have bowled fuller and he's basically gone 'you try telling Jimmy and Broad to bowl fuller, I'm not going to'

And as Jimmy said its not about bowling short or full it's about making the batsman play
Wrong Jimmy on that pitch it was about bowling fuller.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: England Test Series vs Pakistan
« Reply #314 on: May 27, 2018, 03:49:14 PM »

I don't think Id want to tell Jimmy Anderson where he should be bowling.
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