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[Bats_Entertainment]

I agree with Boycott.We just aren't very good!

Has to be said: we usually weren't very good in the 1980s either.

[rickjames]

This current administration couldn't preserve a jar of jam, let alone test cricket

[KD4]

Everything wonderfully summed up by the brilliant George Dobell.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/23623390/england-humiliation-lord-was-accident-waiting-happen?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Thanks for the link. Its a great read.

He writes 'What did they think would happen when they encouraged the batsmen to attack for several years so that the the value of a defensive technique was downplayed'.

Our batters barring are Cook unable to bat time. If we have to save a test match I'm not confident we would because with current batting line up they don't have the technique or the will to do it. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't spend much time working on their defence.

[billyb]

Stoneman's goose is cooked. Jennings in.

[ppccopener]

Stoneman's goose is cooked. Jennings in.

Stoneman is out of form and early season wickets not helped. Better he is out of the firing line but could be the wrong side of 30 to come back, not that is right but it's the way it goes sometimes(Carberry).

One player won't fix England's issues thou, we are in the same position our our day side was after the 2015 WC.

This won't happen but as an armchair suggestion I would replace Bayliss with graham Thorpe and split the roles.

[billyb]

Agreed. Think Ballance will come good eventually again and be a good player in the middle order. He's a serious player and has a better test record than any other recent addition. He just needs time.

Stoneman is out of form and early season wickets not helped. Better he is out of the firing line but could be the wrong side of 30 to come back, not that is right but it's the way it goes sometimes(Carberry).

One player won't fix England's issues thou, we are in the same position our our day side was after the 2015 WC.

This won't happen but as an armchair suggestion I would replace Bayliss with graham Thorpe and split the roles.

[Mister Le Chiffre]

Good to see Jennings back, he went away and has improved his game. Stoneman is done no reason for him to be selected again

[billyb]

I worry for Malan. He looked very poor in the first test.

[Bats_Entertainment]

"What does Stoneman have to do?",  "Why, oh why?" etc.

[Bats_Entertainment]

Agreed. Think Ballance will come good eventually again and be a good player in the middle order. He's a serious player and has a better test record than any other recent addition. He just needs time.

Gary Ballance will have to start playing cricket again before he is likely to come good. There are some that argue that the England set-up is becoming a bit of a cricketers' graveyard.

[billyb]

Gary Ballance will have to start playing cricket again before he is likely to come good. There are some that argue that the England set-up is becoming a bit of a cricketers' graveyard.

Since 2010, all of these players have made debuts for England in tests.
Carberry, Finn, Tredwell, Morgan, Shahzad, Patel, Bairstow, Taylor, Compton, Root, Kerrigan, Woakes, Stokes, Ballance, Borthwick, Rankin, Moeen, Jordan, Robson, Buttler, Lyth, Wood, Rashid, Hales, Vince, Ball, Duckett, Ansari, Hameed, Jennings, Dawson, Malan, Roland-Jones, Westley, Stoneman, Overton, Curran, Crane, Leach, Bess.

Now that is shocking in itself. Let's do some stats...

Of those 39 players, 25 played less than 10 tests. Only 7 played more than 20. Top of the averages? Root, Hameed, Bairstow, Ballance, Stokes, Curran. Bowling averages? Roland-Jones, Borthwick and Tredwell are the stand-outs.

The last England player to debut and then make it to 20 tests is Moeen.
This makes me genuinely angry- what chance did some of these guys really have?
Borthwick and Robson, in particular, look hard done by.

[Bats_Entertainment]

And how many go back to county cricket completely shot, never to be the same player again?

[Mister Le Chiffre]

Gary Ballance's stats are offset by feasting against Sri Lanka and India in English conditions against two sides that don't tour particularly well. Just look at Ballance's record against New Zealand and Australia sides with top class bowlers and his real ability was on full display. We'd have to be really at an all time low if we went back to ballance

[Kulli]

Since 2010, all of these players have made debuts for England in tests.
Carberry, Finn, Tredwell, Morgan, Shahzad, Patel, Bairstow, Taylor, Compton, Root, Kerrigan, Woakes, Stokes, Ballance, Borthwick, Rankin, Moeen, Jordan, Robson, Buttler, Lyth, Wood, Rashid, Hales, Vince, Ball, Duckett, Ansari, Hameed, Jennings, Dawson, Malan, Roland-Jones, Westley, Stoneman, Overton, Curran, Crane, Leach, Bess.

Now that is shocking in itself. Let's do some stats...

Of those 39 players, 25 played less than 10 tests. Only 7 played more than 20. Top of the averages? Root, Hameed, Bairstow, Ballance, Stokes, Curran. Bowling averages? Roland-Jones, Borthwick and Tredwell are the stand-outs.

The last England player to debut and then make it to 20 tests is Moeen.
This makes me genuinely angry- what chance did some of these guys really have?
Borthwick and Robson, in particular, look hard done by.

Didn't Borthwick pick up a few cheap wickets with full bungers when the Aussies were looking to slap a few and declare?He's basically a batter for surrey these days too.

[billyb]

Who performed in 2017 after all of that?

Ballance averaged 67.92- 3 100s, 4 50s and was then forced to carry drinks for England all winter when the team couldn't buy a run. No wonder he's struggling now.

Westley averaged 43- 2 100s, 2 50s.

Robson  averaged 39.25- 2 100s, 4 50s.

This year? Borthwick is doing okay at 42.5. Jennings at 44.86. Vince at 53.
That's basically it.