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[billyb]

Gary Ballance's stats are offset by feasting against Sri Lanka and India in English conditions against two sides that don't tour particularly well. Just look at Ballance's record against New Zealand and Australia sides with top class bowlers and his real ability was on full display. We'd have to be really at an all time low if we went back to ballance

If we were dealing with players scoring riches of runs, I'd agree. But we're not. He averages 37.5 for England.
Out of the current roster of players, only Cook, Root, Hameed (doesn't really count) and Bairstow have better averages.

Ballance's time will come again, I hope. He has actually scored the runs to suggest that he is plenty good enough.

[SD]

Since 2010, all of these players have made debuts for England in tests.
Carberry, Finn, Tredwell, Morgan, Shahzad, Patel, Bairstow, Taylor, Compton, Root, Kerrigan, Woakes, Stokes, Ballance, Borthwick, Rankin, Moeen, Jordan, Robson, Buttler, Lyth, Wood, Rashid, Hales, Vince, Ball, Duckett, Ansari, Hameed, Jennings, Dawson, Malan, Roland-Jones, Westley, Stoneman, Overton, Curran, Crane, Leach, Bess.

Now that is shocking in itself. Let's do some stats...

Of those 39 players, 25 played less than 10 tests. Only 7 played more than 20. Top of the averages? Root, Hameed, Bairstow, Ballance, Stokes, Curran. Bowling averages? Roland-Jones, Borthwick and Tredwell are the stand-outs.

The last England player to debut and then make it to 20 tests is Moeen.
This makes me genuinely angry- what chance did some of these guys really have?
Borthwick and Robson, in particular, look hard done by.

This doesn't seem to be out of kilter with the historical position.  In the 90s, 58 players were given debuts, of which 35 went on the play 10 or less tests for England.

I feel that compared to previous generations, the batsmen in particular get a lot of patience when it comes to establishing a place in the side

[Seniorplayer]

Having watched the match didn't think Pakistan as a test team were that good what that did have unlike England and it worked was a veried  balanced bowling attack also there batters again unlike England apart from Bess and in the  second innings  played with grit determination and plenty of fight.

[Manormanic]

And how many go back to county cricket completely shot, never to be the same player again?

There have been a few to be fair.  There are not many who have the skill and toughness to go back, learn from their mistakes but not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[InternalTraining]

Having watched the match didn't think Pakistan as a test team were that good what that did have unlike England and it worked was a veried  balanced bowling attack also there batters again unlike England apart from Bess and in the  second innings  played with grit determination and plenty of fight.

Are they varied? In terms of how they bowl, they seem pretty similar

In my opinion, they bowled with discipline and that was a differentiator. 

[brokenbat]

Good to see Jennings back, he went away and has improved his game. Stoneman is done no reason for him to be selected again

with your track record of predictions on this thread.. this surely means Stoneman will be back soon, and will start smashing 300s for fun, and will end up with a career average of 100

[Mister Le Chiffre]

with your track record of predictions on this thread.. this surely means Stoneman will be back soon, and will start smashing 300s for fun, and will end up with a career average of 100

England lost due to the shortcomings of our on creations. Pakistan are a workmanlike side whom pretty much played above their natural level at Lords. You'll be back to usual soon enough

[ad2606]

Are they varied? In terms of how they bowl, they seem pretty similar

In my opinion, they bowled with discipline and that was a differentiator.

I thought they were all pretty similar as well, just kept a good line which Englands batsmen don't have the patience to face without the scoreboard ticking over, seems to be a blueprint for success against the current batting lineup to be fair

[brokenbat]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/video/clip?id=23649278

pak bowling coach talks about how he overruled his bowlers and forced them to bowl full.. can't imagine broad/anderson being receptive to such "advice"

[ppccopener]

Azhar Mahmood has a lot of experience over here but you may be half joking but that is a problem for us and has been in the past, there is a problem with this current England side I wonder if influence of senior players is an issue?

Yes we batted rubbish but how do we get outbowled in our conditions?

[InternalTraining]

What are the conditions like in Leeds?

England will be ready, mentally, to take the game to Pak. Second test won't be so one-sided.

[ppccopener]

Anyone watching Sky will know Sam Curran called up as cover as precaution for Stokes

We don't need Stokes out of the match but I think even if Stokes can bat and bowl fine England will play Woakes at Leeds so we have enough bowling.

That might mean, presuming Woakes is fit of course, Wood would miss out.

Also a prickly interview in the Guardian with Anderson, who was rumoured to have had a bust of with a bowling coach last year, perhaps not taking kindly to Bayliss comments 'we are telling the players the same message'

Which I read to mean the players continue not to listen to advice...

I don't believe all is well in the England camp myself.

[Seniorplayer]

Thing is England can't do without the experience of Broad and Anderson and  they know it
If Woakes plays its a step backwards this England team needs a radical overall / transformation

[ProCricketer1982]

Thing is England can't do without the experience of Broad and Anderson and  they know it

The team is losing anyway with them.. might as well lose without them !

[golders]

Get rid of Broad been average for too long,sends the wrong message