Topic: Grade Grains Performance (Read 9807 times)

CricketXI · « **Reply #30 on:** July 10, 2018, 05:46:10 PM »

@JK Lewis:

I am not sure if anyone outside manufacturing business have any idea about the cleft and how it will turn out.
I have not got any bat custom made for myself but what I know/ heard that most of the people end up with the same profile readily available in the shops.
And I stated earlier balance is very subjective and depends upon a lot of factor, there is no scale for measuring it.

@Mfarank:

I second you, but to me saying grading based upon performance is all bogus, I can never digest the concept of smacking a bat 10-15 times with a mallet or a ball to determine the performance.
It is just a marketing gimmick to lure the customers towards a high margin bat.
In case there are very few bats that have exceptional performance to cost such a hefty amount of money then the bat makes should look at some other wood options to make good bats.

InternalTraining · « **Reply #31 on:** July 10, 2018, 06:17:26 PM »

Quote from: JK Lewis on July 10, 2018, 04:41:57 PM

Serious question then fellas. If you had the opportunity to select your own clefts based on your own personal criteria, from a big pile of them, would you be interested?

Based on my observation of different bat maker's process, the grading process takes places over three phases. 1. The grading of the cleft by the willow merchant. 2. The grading by the bat maker after receiving the cleft(s) and grading them again. 3. Grading the finished bat on both looks and ping/performance.

My point is that a lot happens from felling the tree, to producing clefts, and then finishing the bat.

I'd rather pick up an ugly looking bat that goes like a train and pay g3/g4 price than buying a good looking bat and pay g1/g2/pro price.

Mfarank · « **Reply #32 on:** July 10, 2018, 06:24:38 PM »

Quote from: InternalTraining on July 10, 2018, 06:17:26 PM

I'd rather pick up an ugly looking bat that goes like a train and pay g3/g4 price than buying a good looking bat and pay g1/g2/pro price.

Wholeheartedly agree to this. The problem though is that train g3/g4 suddenly gets priced up into a pro grade g1++ bat because it is "graded for performance"

InternalTraining · « **Reply #33 on:** July 10, 2018, 06:42:47 PM »

^ Yup, and that's why as consumers we are screwed.

JK Lewis · « **Reply #34 on:** July 10, 2018, 07:23:08 PM »

Quote from: CricketXI on July 10, 2018, 05:46:10 PM

@JK Lewis:

I am not sure if anyone outside manufacturing business have any idea about the cleft and how it will turn out.
I have not got any bat custom made for myself but what I know/ heard that most of the people end up with the same profile readily available in the shops.
And I stated earlier balance is very subjective and depends upon a lot of factor, there is no scale for measuring it.

@Mfarank:

I second you, but to me saying grading based upon performance is all bogus, I can never digest the concept of smacking a bat 10-15 times with a mallet or a ball to determine the performance.
It is just a marketing gimmick to lure the customers towards a high margin bat.
In case there are very few bats that have exceptional performance to cost such a hefty amount of money then the bat makes should look at some other wood options to make good bats.

You're completely right @cricket11 , it is subjective. But this in itself is interesting I think. Everyone has an opinion and a personal preference. Choosing clefts is probably not for everyone, but if you were to select 2 or 3 from a stack, and had the opportunity to discuss the trees of origin, their ages and growing areas, this might be useful information, no?

Then you could contact your local batmaker, visit him to discuss your clefts, and arrange for one or more to be made up to bats of your specs. Most likely the total cost will be well below that charged by your local outlet and, if nothing else, this process will be extremely satisfying and good for your local industry.

Anyway, I just propose options and ideas. I like to see what people would be interested in, and then think about how to organise it.

six and out · « **Reply #35 on:** July 10, 2018, 07:40:05 PM »

Quote from: Mfarank on July 10, 2018, 06:24:38 PM

Wholeheartedly agree to this. The problem though is that train g3/g4 suddenly gets priced up into a pro grade g1++ bat because it is "graded for performance"

No it doesn't... companies will always have to have bats across all grades and more importantly across all price ranges. So if that bat is marked up then so be it... it is meant to be a grade 1. It is a subjective process both on looks and performance. Which is why you get some bats that don't necessarily match their grade for looks or performance and you think you have found yourself a bargain!!

InternalTraining · « **Reply #36 on:** July 10, 2018, 07:50:52 PM »

Ok.

I'll celebrate if I could get a ~~g3/~~g4 priced bat that goes like a train and rivals the performance of a G1/PRO grade bat. 2-10/2-11. Bow. Thin, oval handle. Pre-size-limitation bats are acceptable as well since my leagues does not enforce the size restriction. Brand new.

So, who has one?

CricketXI · « **Reply #37 on:** July 10, 2018, 08:05:40 PM »

Quote

You're completely right @cricket11 , it is subjective. But this in itself is interesting I think. Everyone has an opinion and a personal preference. Choosing clefts is probably not for everyone, but if you were to select 2 or 3 from a stack, and had the opportunity to discuss the trees of origin, their ages and growing areas, this might be useful information, no?

Then you could contact your local batmaker, visit him to discuss your clefts, and arrange for one or more to be made up to bats of your specs. Most likely the total cost will be well below that charged by your local outlet and, if nothing else, this process will be extremely satisfying and good for your local industry.

Anyway, I just propose options and ideas. I like to see what people would be interested in, and then think about how to organise it

Its an intriguing concept, and the pride and satisfaction that one will get by getting involved in every aspect of bat making will be of different level.
But saying so, there are number of challenges that one have to go through to get a bat done with such a concept.

Firstly finding a cleft supplier who agrees to let a novice to go through the entire stock for just couple of clefts (I am sure most big supplier wont let you to do so)
And there might be a case when the buyer drops the idea of picking any cleft after the visit. So i guess this will not be a viable business model in today's age and time.

Secondly finding a good bat maker who agrees to make a bat from your purchased cleft and just charge for the services is near to impossible.
As this will reduce bat makers profit margin. And the nitpicking they will do on your self picked cleft can easily let down your excitement.

JK Lewis · « **Reply #38 on:** July 10, 2018, 08:09:19 PM »

Quote from: CricketXI on July 10, 2018, 08:05:40 PM

Its an intriguing concept, and the pride and satisfaction that one will get by getting involved in every aspect of bat making will be of different level.
But saying so, there are number of challenges that one have to go through to get a bat done with such a concept.

Firstly finding a cleft supplier who agrees to let a novice to go through the entire stock for just couple of clefts (I am sure most big supplier wont let you to do so)
And there might be a case when the buyer drops the idea of picking any cleft after the visit. So i guess this will not be a viable business model in today's age and time.

Secondly finding a good bat maker who agrees to make a bat from your purchased cleft and just charge for the services is near to impossible.
As this will reduce bat makers profit margin. And the nitpicking they will do on your self picked cleft can easily let down your excitement.

Mate, I'm not asking you to school me, I'm asking if you would be interested in such an opportunity if I were to organise it.

blindowl · « **Reply #39 on:** July 10, 2018, 08:44:20 PM »

@JK Lewis if I were in the market to buy a (say) �175 bat and had the choice to buy from a shop/batmaker or go the extra step of picking a cleft and having it made I would certainly think that would be an appealing prospect.
OK it might take longer and there is the gamble it might not look great or go like the clappers after all but that is always a risk.

It would (for me) make the process that much more personal and special, perhaps as close to making your own bat without actually making it if you follow what I mean.

Yorkershire · « **Reply #40 on:** July 10, 2018, 09:20:18 PM »

Are we still discussing this..? I'm sure this has been discussed to death in this forum.

Am sure consensus on here is looks don't affect performance... even spaced straight grains is what you go for...

Any specks, butterfly marks stains have no negative effect???

Latest Jedi grains aren't all even but are straight and ping is great.

adb club cricketer · « **Reply #41 on:** July 11, 2018, 07:35:10 PM »

Quote from: Yorkershire on July 10, 2018, 09:20:18 PM

Am sure consensus on here is looks don't affect performance... even spaced straight grains is what you go for...
Any specks, butterfly marks stains have no negative effect???

I am not sure if even spaced grains indicate better performance either. Have seen butterfly stain bats with anything but even/straight grains ping crazy.

In the absence of any science based evidence, maybe looks doesn't affect performance is the only conclusion we can make really.. It is more likely that most better looking bats are made/pressed better by batmakers/ senior batmakers due to the higher cost they can sell them for, which might make the higher cost bats perform better more often.

stevat · « **Reply #42 on:** July 11, 2018, 09:25:50 PM »

Quote from: adb club cricketer on July 11, 2018, 07:35:10 PM

I am not sure if even spaced grains indicate better performance either. Have seen butterfly stain bats with anything but even/straight grains ping crazy.

In the absence of any science based evidence, maybe looks doesn't affect performance is the only conclusion we can make really.. It is more likely that most better looking bats are made/pressed better by batmakers/ senior batmakers due to the higher cost they can sell them for, which might make the higher cost bats perform better more often.

This is exactly right I reckon, you're always going to get a better level of attention to detail and care in every step on a higher grade bat as the batmaker will be well aware of the cost to themselves and missed opportunity in terms of revenue should they stuff it up.

Author Topic: Grade Grains Performance (Read 9807 times)

CricketXI

Re: Grade Grains Performance

InternalTraining

Re: Grade Grains Performance

Mfarank

Re: Grade Grains Performance

InternalTraining

Re: Grade Grains Performance

JK Lewis

Re: Grade Grains Performance

six and out

Re: Grade Grains Performance

InternalTraining

Re: Grade Grains Performance

CricketXI

Re: Grade Grains Performance

JK Lewis

Re: Grade Grains Performance

blindowl

Re: Grade Grains Performance

Yorkershire

Re: Grade Grains Performance

adb club cricketer

Re: Grade Grains Performance

stevat

Re: Grade Grains Performance