Ben Stokes Trial
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ppccopener

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2018, 06:16:51 PM »
Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on August 06, 2018, 05:11:21 PM
Stokes is going 'not guilty', isn't he?

Yes that's essentially why there is a trial. I'm no lawyer but independant witnesses will hold the key to the trial presuming they come forward.

The two gay guys maybe hold Stokes's guilt or innocence in their hands. Presuming the jury believe the self defence theory .

Stokes appears to have taken that defence to extremes by flattening everyone in sight.
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Manormanic

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2018, 06:41:49 PM »
Quote from: ppccopener on November 10, 1974, 11:25:41 PM

Stokes appears to have taken that defence to extremes by flattening everyone in sight.

If there was genuine reason to perceive a threat, he wouldn't be held responsible for the after effects of adrenaline in his system.  I actually think the key is going to be what was not shown in the leaked video. 
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InternalTraining

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2018, 06:44:25 PM »
- No good deed goes unpunished.

- Road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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Boondougal

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2018, 07:35:08 PM »
Quote from: InternalTraining on August 06, 2018, 06:44:25 PM
- No good deed goes unpunished.

- Road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I sense you think he will not come out of this well
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Boondougal

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2018, 07:37:57 PM »
ECB were in a rock and a hard place... don’t play him and you risk looking like you think he is guilty, play him and you risk looking like you sided with a guilty man.

I think principle will be a big part of why he hasn’t pleaded guilty but i don’t believe he would be advised to let it get this far, get a sponsorship deal with GM and maintain his England contract if enough people around him have believe (and have been advised as such) he will be ok.... Getting convicted at this stage is far more damaging in the long run than avoiding court by admitting to some form of liability.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2018, 07:42:02 PM »
Quote from: Boondougal on August 06, 2018, 07:35:08 PM
I sense you think he will not come out of this well

He needs bigger responsibilities, like captaincy of the Test side. ECB needs to channel his energies constructively.
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golders

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2018, 07:43:18 PM »
Are we going to add a poll to this thread at some point?!
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alexevo94

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2018, 07:46:00 PM »
Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on August 06, 2018, 05:11:21 PM
Stokes is going 'not guilty', isn't he?

Yeh otherwise wouldn’t be a trial, but usually they plead guilty before so no trial needed
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six and out

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2018, 08:15:48 PM »
The over riding thing that I can't get past is that Stokes pleaded not guilty and took it to court with a jury. As a professional cricketer, with all the backing he gets if he was even remotely in doubt he would have coped a plea surely. Then tried to get a suspended sentence or something like that.
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alexevo94

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2018, 08:59:23 PM »
Quote from: six and out on August 06, 2018, 08:15:48 PM
The over riding thing that I can't get past is that Stokes pleaded not guilty and took it to court with a jury. As a professional cricketer, with all the backing he gets if he was even remotely in doubt he would have coped a plea surely. Then tried to get a suspended sentence or something like that.

That was my point exactly. But maybe he truly believes he’s innoncent (don’t know how from the videos I’ve seen)
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edge

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2018, 09:12:48 PM »
This is good, key point being missed by many is that Stokes is being tried for affray, not assualt.
http://www.keepcalmtalklaw.co.uk/affray-outside-off-stump-explaining-ben-stokes-charges-/
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Boondougal

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2018, 09:43:59 PM »
Hence the prosecutions focus on how others perceived his mood! They are trying to show he was a danger to others, not just the “victim”
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ppccopener

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2018, 09:50:31 PM »
Seems to focus on danger to others yes, not the people fighting. Have to say I thought fighting in the street was affray and not considered the offence that way.

That appears to my untrained eye to be in Stokes favour quite a lot , which may explain why they think he will get off arguing self defence

A bit clearer after that link was posted.

We must have a lawyer on the forum surely they all live in Surrey don't they?  :)
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Tom

Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2018, 10:17:23 PM »
Don't think you'll find many lawyers passing comment on an active court case!
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tim2000s

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Re: Ben Stokes Trial
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2018, 06:46:46 AM »
And you certainly won't be getting a poll on this one.

As far as it goes, the press are far more likely to report the prosecution case, because, let's face it, reporting that Ben Stokes is a wonderful guy who stepped in to help out a couple of gay guys, and maybe went a little too far under duress doesn't sell papers. As if you were the jury , wait until you've heard all the statements and testimony before making your mind up.

I hesitate to use the word "facts" because in any trial reliant on witness statements, there are very few hard and fast "Facts". They are people's memories and those are never factual.
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