England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
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ppccopener

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #180 on: November 24, 2019, 10:07:05 AM »

I think this is great for England I really do. New coach, new mantra for the longer form of the game And away from Roots naive ideas of the last couple of years of 'not just using up balls'  we have seen NZ and their superb captain show just how to win, or get into winning positions, in the longer form. Get in and stay in and go big with the ideal that your spinner comes into the match at the back end. I see Santner has all three of ours to fall, and he is good but not a world beating spinner.

We need to take from this game just how our approach needs plenty of work.the the huge emphasis on one day cricket its for to take a few games to see if we can adapt....

Two concerns still stop this side moving forward thou, is Root a captain capable of scoring runs while still in the job? And on flat decks can we find a way thru?

The answer to the second has got to be surely 400 in the first innings not 300 or 350 so there is at least scoreboard pressure on the oppo.

Hats off to NZ, a good side, well led and if they go 1 up they will of deserved it

Well played the Kiwis.
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #181 on: November 24, 2019, 10:25:26 AM »

For all this talk of new dawns and balanced selections I think there's a couple of key points people are missing.

1) England need Root the player far more than they need Root the captain. It may be beneficial for him and the side to hand the reins over to someone else so he can focus on batting again and (hopefully) get back to something near his best.

2) England just aren't that good. There's talent in the squad, but these are inexperienced players at this level. Chances are they'll come good given time, but you're not going to select new personell and become world class overnight. Give the side time to develop, this is just the start of a transitional period.
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SouthpawMark

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #182 on: November 24, 2019, 10:28:38 AM »

The biggest concern is that a fairly average batting lineup can rack up 600+, and we are going to struggle to pass 300. We also have a fairly average spinner, a captain devoid of ideas, a fast bowler who seems to pick and choose when he puts any effort in, and back up seamers who struggle to hit over 80mph.

The Silverwood and Giles era better get better than this.
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #183 on: November 24, 2019, 11:18:45 AM »

Leach is a decent bowler. It’s a shame all the other rubbish last summer took people’s attention away from that fact, and he became a bit of a joke figure. Hopefully he’ll let his bowling do the talking from now on.

The biggest concern is that a fairly average batting lineup can rack up 600+, and we are going to struggle to pass 300. We also have a fairly average spinner, a captain devoid of ideas, a fast bowler who seems to pick and choose when he puts any effort in, and back up seamers who struggle to hit over 80mph.

The Silverwood and Giles era better get better than this.


Blimey, he's gone from "decent" to "fairly average" in the last 2 days! :(
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SouthpawMark

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #184 on: November 24, 2019, 11:50:27 AM »



Blimey, he's gone from "decent" to "fairly average" in the last 2 days! :(

 ;)
I was trying to give him confidence, but no, he’s not very good. The more I watch him, the less I rate him. Hurry back Moeen...all is forgiven.
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Mister Le Chiffre

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #185 on: November 24, 2019, 12:08:34 PM »

I’m sure we all want Moeen back with his head high beamers...
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SouthpawMark

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #186 on: November 24, 2019, 12:53:37 PM »

I’m sure we all want Moeen back with his head high beamers...

I think he just needs to be shown that the skipper has confidence in him. Ever since Sir Graeme Swanny retired, every spinner has been treated by whoever is skippering with suspicion and distrust. Spinners need to feel loved.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #187 on: November 24, 2019, 01:14:32 PM »

The new thinking appears to be sound for the top 3 finally !! Anyone sensible has been saying it for years (so anyone wanting Roy, Bairstow, duckett and co up there don’t qualify)..

Root needs to be sacked as capt
Jos to six and skipper and make it as a batter
Stokes looks injured but is justifying his place currently as a batter alone. Maybe time to jut tell him he has to avg 40 and the bowling becomes a bonus
Foakes in as keeper

Bowling is a worry as Curran seems to be the new golden child .. we won’t win anything with slow plod like that. He needs to go now.

Anderson, broad, archer, woakes, wood are your seam bowling unit but with Anderson and broad the next two need to be developed fast as they might go at any point now. Currently the stocks are thin

Spin. Leech is the only genuine option

Also, leech to 8.. he’s shown fight and we need fight more than biffing
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Manormanic

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #188 on: November 24, 2019, 05:12:57 PM »

Things said in the last 24 hours here that I agree with:
1. Root is not the right man to captain England at this stage.  It is affecting his batting, and he is not even that good at it.

Things said in the last 24 hours here that I do not agree with:
1. Leach being a poor spinner.  Like any finger spinner, his threat is directly proportionate to the runs that his batsman have put on the board - when he has had some scoreboard pressure he has looked class (he was as good at Lords as Archer, if less brutal).  But here, New Zealand knew that England were 100 light and could block him and pick him off. 
2. Buttler as skipper?  Ridiculous.  He has been the lucky recipient of a selectorial gift when Bairstow was dropped instead of him (and Foakes was not given the slot,which would have been the best decision).  He's a poor keeper, couldn't hold down a slot as a specialist batsman, so couldn't be given the job.
3. Stokes as a specialist batsman.  Ah look, he's great, he really is - but the issue for England was that half hour of madness when he and Pope played shocking shots.  That was the time to grind the oppo into the dirt, not suddenly skip from second to overdrive. 
4. Archer....wow, you guys are on his back quickly.  He has not bowled great, but on a dead track still managed to half kill Nicholls. 

In general, they need to give people time - even the people I have criticised above.  Pope for Surrey looks a much classier player than he did here, and will get there as the nerves subside, and for the most part its a decent side. 
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Manormanic

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #189 on: November 24, 2019, 05:14:03 PM »

Also, leech to 8.. he’s shown fight and we need fight more than biffing

Actually, make that two things I agree with.  If we are picking Buttler, we might as well at least give him a chance to build an innings before he has to try the one day stuff.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #190 on: November 24, 2019, 07:17:50 PM »

Things said in the last 24 hours here that I agree with:
1. Root is not the right man to captain England at this stage.  It is affecting his batting, and he is not even that good at it.

Things said in the last 24 hours here that I do not agree with:
1. Leach being a poor spinner.  Like any finger spinner, his threat is directly proportionate to the runs that his batsman have put on the board - when he has had some scoreboard pressure he has looked class (he was as good at Lords as Archer, if less brutal).  But here, New Zealand knew that England were 100 light and could block him and pick him off. 
2. Buttler as skipper?  Ridiculous.  He has been the lucky recipient of a selectorial gift when Bairstow was dropped instead of him (and Foakes was not given the slot,which would have been the best decision).  He's a poor keeper, couldn't hold down a slot as a specialist batsman, so couldn't be given the job.
3. Stokes as a specialist batsman.  Ah look, he's great, he really is - but the issue for England was that half hour of madness when he and Pope played shocking shots.  That was the time to grind the oppo into the dirt, not suddenly skip from second to overdrive. 
4. Archer....wow, you guys are on his back quickly.  He has not bowled great, but on a dead track still managed to half kill Nicholls. 

In general, they need to give people time - even the people I have criticised above.  Pope for Surrey looks a much classier player than he did here, and will get there as the nerves subside, and for the most part its a decent side.

Buttler has avg what over the last 2 years ? Even though I would happily see him dropped he deserves a run. Bairstow has had 50 tests is it ?? Avg 33-5 is it? And is going backwards with his returns and technique.. he’s decided to be a white ball hitter and fair play as it’s where the money is. The guy is now a liability in red ball and like ballance should be simply kicked into touch.

Stokes will never be a great batter but he should be good enough to hold a slot down. His bowling isn’t great anywya and he’s now seemingly injured because of it.

I’d happily kick out more Of the Bairstow, buttler Curran, ali tyoes who quite simply wont make it or be anything but bit part players
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Manormanic

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #191 on: November 24, 2019, 09:33:57 PM »

Buttler has avg what over the last 2 years ? Even though I would happily see him dropped he deserves a run. Bairstow has had 50 tests is it ?? Avg 33-5 is it? And is going backwards with his returns and technique.. he’s decided to be a white ball hitter and fair play as it’s where the money is. The guy is now a liability in red ball and like ballance should be simply kicked into touch.

Stokes will never be a great batter but he should be good enough to hold a slot down. His bowling isn’t great anywya and he’s now seemingly injured because of it.

I’d happily kick out more Of the Bairstow, buttler Curran, ali tyoes who quite simply wont make it or be anything but bit part players

Not disagreeing with Bairstow being sent away to ponder or however you phrase it. But if its a straight out call between him and Buttler then you can surely see why he would be pissed as clearly the better keeper of the two tone dropped for someone whose Ashes average was. 7 higher but who only contributed when the urn was gone.
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Mister Le Chiffre

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #192 on: November 24, 2019, 10:02:31 PM »

How’s there any support for Bairstow being in the Test side? Since Root became captain, Bairstow averages 28. That’s after 31 tests. After 60 odd tests, Bairstow averages 35. He’s had more than enough opportunities. He’s simply not good enough.
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #193 on: November 24, 2019, 10:54:47 PM »

Put simply neither Bairstow or Butler should be in the Teat side as Foakes is the best keeper full stop and his batting so far in test cricket has been faultless and his 1st class record  record of 41avg and 9 hundreds is decent
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rickjames

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #194 on: November 24, 2019, 10:56:40 PM »

What on effing Earth was that?
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