England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
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ppccopener

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #405 on: December 04, 2019, 10:13:20 PM »
Quote from: Mister Le Chiffre on December 04, 2019, 09:51:00 PM
New Zealand are a great team, whilst England are great individuals. A great team beats great individuals 99/100. That’s the crux of the matter.

Ummm. No and no. NZ are a good team, well led,good players.Williamson up there as one of the best 3 players in World cricket for sure.

Anderson has not played this series, he is a modern great. Just who were you thinking of to make up the 'great individuals' ?

Stokes is up there, Root our best batsmen by a street, is he a great? No.

This is the problem we have as fans and supporters to quote a well known forum phrase 'delusional'

We might have two great players if Anderson plays, without him the term 'great' is massively out of context.

I expected better from you @Mister Le Chiffre , you normally talk sense.

Unless we start getting a bit real, the team will always disappoint. We have potential but recent history, current history shows us for what we are....average to good.
 :)
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Mister Le Chiffre

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #406 on: December 04, 2019, 10:41:57 PM »
I probably didn’t explain myself properly. England’s players are capable of great individual feats such as Stokes at Leeds and Archer also in the Ashes. Clearly you probably wouldn’t call them greats of the game. But my point was misconstrued.

I still maintain New Zealand are a great side. Little bit like Leicester City imo.
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SouthpawMark

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #407 on: December 04, 2019, 10:49:12 PM »
Quote from: Mister Le Chiffre on December 04, 2019, 10:41:57 PM
I probably didn’t explain myself properly. England’s players are capable of great individual feats such as Stokes at Leeds and Archer also in the Ashes. Clearly you probably wouldn’t call them greats of the game. But my point was misconstrued.

I still maintain New Zealand are a great side. Little bit like Leicester City imo.

I’d give England at least a 51% chance of beating Leicester City at cricket.  :D
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #408 on: December 05, 2019, 12:55:19 PM »
Quote from: jonny77 on December 04, 2019, 09:45:54 AM
I agree, but there are series which surely are more important than others? The Ashes for example or a 5 test series against India etc. This was essentially a warm up for the SA series, so a good chance to look at the likes of Pope. I'm sure England were taking it seriously, but not having a specialist back up keeper didn't really affect the result. Just an opinion.

Warm up vs a decent Nz side for a ‘big series’ against a dire and poor SA team ?!?! Oh my
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #409 on: December 05, 2019, 12:57:04 PM »
Quote from: jonny77 on December 04, 2019, 10:50:17 AM
I've never once said they are a poor team, or that we shouldn't take it seriously. I'd rate them better than, or on par with England at present. My point was in the grand scheme of things the result here wasn't crucial to anything really. How many times do you hear that CC games don't prepare players for the test arena, or that 'its a huge step up'. So why not try new players and rest others, in a two game series against quality opposition but which essentially has less riding on it (not part of the test championshop etc). Makes sense to me and as I say the lack of back up keeper for me didn't really impact massively at all. We all know what Foakes can do.

I've also clearly stated that these should be taken seriously, but you also need some games against quality opposition to try new players without fearing a loss too greatly.

Again, just an opinion  :D

Umm shall we compare the avg’s of the batsmen and see which side is ‘on par’...

God we do over rate our players.. they avg 30’s for a bloody reason guys.. they aren’t very good!! No matter how many times the media or ECB call them ‘world class’
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jonny77

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #410 on: December 05, 2019, 04:12:06 PM »
Quote from: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on December 05, 2019, 12:55:19 PM
Warm up vs a decent Nz side for a ‘big series’ against a dire and poor SA team ?!?! Oh my

2 test series aren't that big in my opinion mate, that was all I was getting at. Also not part of the Test Championship.
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jonny77

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #411 on: December 05, 2019, 04:15:35 PM »
Quote from: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on December 05, 2019, 12:57:04 PM
Umm shall we compare the avg’s of the batsmen and see which side is ‘on par’...

God we do over rate our players.. they avg 30’s for a bloody reason guys.. they aren’t very good!! No matter how many times the media or ECB call them ‘world class’

I did say I'd rate them better, or on par. Averages aren't everything either tbf, I still think we've got some class players but are in transition with a lot of new players.

Guess I'm just a glass half full kind of person, tends to keep me more positive and happier  :D
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #412 on: December 06, 2019, 12:34:35 PM »
Quote from: jonny77 on December 05, 2019, 04:15:35 PM
I did say I'd rate them better, or on par. Averages aren't everything either tbf, I still think we've got some class players but are in transition with a lot of new players.

Guess I'm just a glass half full kind of person, tends to keep me more positive and happier  :D

England have payers capable of a class performance.. they aren’t ‘class’ as they can’t back it up regularly. Quite a few of the established players have played enough to have lost “potential” and now just be at their level

It’s not about being positive or not, it’s about being realistic and not pretending these guys are something they aren’t
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SurreySam

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #413 on: December 06, 2019, 06:49:50 PM »
Quote from: RPC/Blueroom Cricket - Adie on December 05, 2019, 12:55:19 PM
Warm up vs a decent Nz side for a ‘big series’ against a dire and poor SA team ?!?! Oh my

I think we were the warm up for New Zealand, before they head over to Oz.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: England tour of New Zealand 2019/20
« Reply #414 on: December 06, 2019, 07:36:29 PM »
Quote from: SurreySam on December 06, 2019, 06:49:50 PM
I think we were the warm up for New Zealand, before they head over to Oz.

Sounds more like it
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