Making a laminate
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Komdotkom

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Making a laminate
« on: January 30, 2020, 08:43:12 PM »
In my never ending quest to commit hate crimes against cricket, I'd like to make a laminate (performance lam not just a massive boat anchor).
I've read everything on here about them and own a TK lam, but the details are still a little vague. I've read about a sheet of rubber being installed or sometimes just a particular glue to create a slightly springy backing for the face.
Before I start ruining more willow, I've got a couple of questions
1) Can I make it from the same cleft or does it need to be a well pressed face stuck to a low density / over dried back?
2) What am I going to sandwich in there? Do I need to form a rebate inside to house the rubber, and what thickness rubber/urethane would be used? There was talk about a type of glue but no brands were mentioned
3) Can I just band saw the face off? I'm assuming that I'll cut through at about 6mm from the pressed face like the TK lam that I have.
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Kulli

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2020, 08:56:20 PM »
@Ryan had made a few.

Winzer worth d3 wood glue is what the keeleys use I believe.
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Northern monkey

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 04:21:58 PM »
I’m so following this as I too am wanting to make one of these mythical weapons
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SurreySam

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2020, 05:10:30 PM »
I remember reading the thread. An additive (borax?) was added to the PVA to try give additional 'bounce'.
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InternalTraining

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2020, 05:28:41 PM »
Do laminates actually perform better than regular bats?
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Buzz

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2020, 06:53:42 PM »
Quote from: InternalTraining on January 31, 2020, 05:28:41 PM
Do laminates actually perform better than regular bats?
Not in my view with the quality of bats these days
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AJ2014

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2020, 07:08:17 PM »
Quote from: Buzz on January 31, 2020, 06:53:42 PM
Not in my view with the quality of bats these days
they perform better but they break quicker! been informed by an Asian bat maker
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Komdotkom

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2020, 07:37:42 PM »
I've seen some 1mm cork sheet for sale and am very tempted to try this.
I'll do some boric acid testing with PVA to work out the ratio.
My TK Lam is a pretty good stick, far better than most bats I've used.
Like my dowelled bat I'm going to do this as a challenge rather than for any performance gain.
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2020, 07:42:40 PM »
Quote from: Komdotkom on January 31, 2020, 07:37:42 PM
I've seen some 1mm cork sheet for sale and am very tempted to try this.
I'll do some boric acid testing with PVA to work out the ratio.
My TK Lam is a pretty good stick, far better than most bats I've used.
Like my dowelled bat I'm going to do this as a challenge rather than for any performance gain.

Your TK Lam is a TK so will play well. Having used a couple of different lams I’ve the years in nets (never owned one) I can say that to me they are no better than a standard bat but always look good
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AJ2014

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2020, 07:43:23 PM »
Quote from: Komdotkom on January 31, 2020, 07:37:42 PM
I've seen some 1mm cork sheet for sale and am very tempted to try this.
I'll do some boric acid testing with PVA to work out the ratio.
My TK Lam is a pretty good stick, far better than most bats I've used.
Like my dowelled bat I'm going to do this as a challenge rather than for any performance gain.
sorry, what's the purpose of the cork sheet?
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AJ2014

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2020, 07:45:03 PM »
Quote from: SOULMAN1012 on January 31, 2020, 07:42:40 PM
Your TK Lam is a TK so will play well. Having used a couple of different lams I’ve the years in nets (never owned one) I can say that to me they are no better than a standard bat but always look good
there is grading on laminated bats as well :D
grade 1 is above £250, I heard
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InternalTraining

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2020, 10:17:05 PM »
Quote from: AJ2014 on January 31, 2020, 07:08:17 PM
they perform better but they break quicker! been informed by an Asian bat maker

I have a laminate and it is a superb bat. Handle broke first. The blade survived lot of abuse in indoor (18 yard) nets - it is probably why it pings so well.
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Komdotkom

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2020, 12:02:50 AM »
I've got some time set aside tomorrow to work on this, been a bit busy at the moment playing Saturday and Sunday plus juniors in the morning.
I'm going to put a really ugly cleft through the saw and take 5mm off the face of it, I can't think of a nice way to keep this an even 5mm so it won't follow the bow of the blade and I'll just work on 5mm of 'face' at the deepest point of the bow. Then I can form a recess in the blade with a plunge router to fit the insert, I'm not sure if this will be rubber or cork at this point but I think if I'm going to all this effort I might as well put something in there for some extra bounce rather than just a modified glue.
Any thoughts on rubber vs cork? 2mm cork sheet is readily available as a gasket maker for automotive applications and would have a lower weight but I wonder if it would have as much bounce as rubber? I suspect that the cork will also provide a more robust glue joint given the amount of oil content in rubber, and most of the rubber in this thickness seems to be silicone based which will be extremely difficult to glue successfully.
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edge

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2020, 08:15:19 AM »
I'm not sure I'd bother with the recess, a lot of trouble to go to just to hide the cork? If going for an insert I would go cork over rubber personally.
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Chompy9760

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Re: Making a laminate
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2020, 09:01:27 AM »
If you are trying to increase rebound with your laminate, I have an interesting observation.
I had a go at making a flat backed Catch bat a couple weeks ago, putting a layer of 12mm foam/rubber on the front.
Trying to get a comparison of rebound on both sides, the foam felt good but I wanted to quantify it.
If I lay the bat foam side up on a cement floor, and drop a ball on it, the ball bounces very well.
If I lay the bat foam side down, (sandwiched between the wood and the cement) the ball barely bounces at all.  It seems that the 'sandwich' absorbs most of the energy.

I appreciate that you're using a lot less than 12mm of cork/rubber but it seems that impact spread over a large area of foam absorbs much more energy than impact spread over a small area.

As far as rebound goes, I would have thought that rubber and cork would both be pretty dead.  After all, when used in handles, isn't their purpose to absorb energy in the form of vibrations and shocks?
I know foam rubber does increase rebound as it contains air bubbles which compress and expand.  Well that's my theory anyway :)

« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 09:03:40 AM by Chompy9760 »
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