Topic: Keeley cricket and the industry generally (Read 22734 times)

Luke-scicc · « **Reply #105 on:** May 26, 2020, 12:57:17 PM »

Quote from: Canners on May 26, 2020, 08:23:30 AM

I am very glad some of the more established forum members have stepped in and spoken sense to this thread.

@Tom�s comment about the industry right now was spot on and it could really be just left there, however

A few points For me

If a business wants to apply a certain pricing strategy/business model. That is totally up to them and I wish them every luck. If you dont like it simply i wouldn�t Waste any time thinking about it let alone take time complaining about it on a forum...

I think it�s crazy and quite disrespectful for people to question their bat making ability. I have gone off Tk bats in the past and moved onto another maker who I found out subsequently tried to charge me �100 more for the exact same cleft as they offered to someone else. Did I write a post about it, no I just will never spend another penny with said brand. I have since moved back to TK bats and the quality of said bats is second to none.

If you also look at the pricing �650 for a top pro keeley isn�t that bad, providing you aren�t the average forum member who thinks a pro bat fit for kohli should cost �100ish. GM so called players editions are �650ish and I personally would choose a keeley every time out of the 2. What about a GN Legend �1000 for an Indian made stock bat. Not that I have anything against Indian made bats, I am probably one of the odd ones out on this forum as some of the Indian bats I have or seen personally I think are as good as anything out there.

Ok so onto the actual bats, TK�s are the best mass made bats within the UK no question and still a fair amount of skilled work is done by hand. I have had a completely hand made bat by Tim, well a hand operated machine cut the shoulders and a press pressed it but apart from that he made it completely... or is that not completely handmade...... now I�m confused 🤣🤣 should I be demanding a refund. I have also had many part cnc�d bats and has there been a difference in performance or quality. Absolutely not. The thing to also remember is willow is a natural product and you will get some variance. I have had one disappointing Tk bat and it was a black cat voodoo that weighed in at 2.5, so in hindsight would any 2.5 finished bat be that great..... since then I have had around 10-15 tk guns

Technology moves on and like Tom M said to make bats at the volume they do would be crazy to not use a cnc to spit out a rough template. No means is the bat finished there still plenty of hard and skilled work is needed.

Anyways have a great day everyone

Bang on.

Luke-scicc · « **Reply #106 on:** May 26, 2020, 01:21:15 PM »

I think if you see something in this day and age marketed as handmade its obvious at some point in the process a machine will have been involved, that doesn't mean its not handmade.

I don't see why any manufacturer has to state they use a cnc machine it's common knowledge or certainly doesn't take much looking to find out bat's are roughly shaped using a cnc machine by the majority of big brands.

The issue you have with price is relative from person to person to some people �650 is not a big amount to others it's enormous.

I think if a company was buying finished bat's blank and putting stickers on, then claiming they were hand making them or even making them then you'd be right to call them out on lack of transparency.

Is it not more wrong that pro players use a bat stickered up as something it's not, so when Joe public goes and drops a considerable sum of money thinking he's getting the same bat as his favourite player when infact it's nothing like. Is that not more of a problem than a bat put on a cnc machine to get a rough shape?

Yorkershire · « **Reply #107 on:** May 26, 2020, 01:39:25 PM »

Only on CBF would such a thread exist.

I have no issue brands using cnc to do the grunt work and then focusing on finishing and pressing. As long as the finished bat is up to standard and people are happy to pay money for it...

I was really impressed how GM merge tech and traditional craft. I'm sure Keeley do similar (but I'm.nit paying 650

).

And my favourite bat maker that I just keep going back to for various reasons JEDi. Uses a machine to do rough shaping but still has lots of work to do by hand.

Your money! Spend it where you feel comfortable... as someone pointed out earlier people dont care about sweatshops...so why is the average village cricketer going to care about cnc vs hand made. As long as the shiny stickers match their favourite players...

As long as we have variety to suit everyone ...not bothered..

Yorkershire · « **Reply #108 on:** May 26, 2020, 01:41:02 PM »

Ps does it matter to you if it was Nick or Tim who did the work?

KW9221 · « **Reply #109 on:** May 26, 2020, 01:48:04 PM »

Quote from: Yorkershire on May 26, 2020, 01:39:25 PM

Only on CBF would such a thread exist.

I have no issue brands using cnc to do the grunt work and then focusing on finishing and pressing. As long as the finished bat is up to standard and people are happy to pay money for it...

I was really impressed how GM merge tech and traditional craft. I'm sure Keeley do similar (but I'm.nit paying 650 ).

And my favourite bat maker that I just keep going back to for various reasons JEDi. Uses a machine to do rough shaping but still has lots of work to do by hand.

Your money! Spend it where you feel comfortable... as someone pointed out earlier people dont care about sweatshops...so why is the average village cricketer going to care about cnc vs hand made. As long as the shiny stickers match their favourite players...

As long as we have variety to suit everyone ...not bothered..

I have seen people spending more then �650 on those �sharpie� pro bats. I know businesses are suffering all over the world and everyone is trying to maximize their profit to stay in business.

Kulli · « **Reply #110 on:** May 26, 2020, 01:52:12 PM »

I suppose some of the feelings of shock are related to the fact that their prices have just taken a huge jump overnight, with nothing really changing/improving with the products, but it�s obviously any companies right to do so if they adopt a new strategy, or need to make changes due to the current circumstances. If you spot a market for your current product with a bigger margin then that�s just good business sense, even if it does leave some of your loyal customers behind.

I�d obviously rather still be able to get a Keeley G1 for �300 than �650, I imagine most are the same

Jimbo · « **Reply #111 on:** May 26, 2020, 01:52:22 PM »

Quote from: KW9221 on May 26, 2020, 01:48:04 PM

I have seen people spending more then �650 on those �sharpie� pro bats. I know businesses are suffering all over the world and everyone is trying to maximize their profit to stay in business.

As long as nobody is being misled or taken advantage of, I don't see an issue with selling anything at a premium price point. Business risks making no sales against the possible benefit of making a healthy profit, that's their decision.

Canners · « **Reply #112 on:** May 26, 2020, 02:08:19 PM »

Quote from: Buzz on May 26, 2020, 09:55:56 AM

If you use a mechanical press is a bat still handmade?

Pretty sure I said that earlier 😜

alba caerulea · « **Reply #113 on:** May 26, 2020, 02:11:22 PM »

TK is the Don. All other opinions are null and void.

Cover_Drive · « **Reply #114 on:** May 26, 2020, 02:40:54 PM »

I feel Keeley's (Tim & Nick) make a larger number of bats nowadays compared to when they were with Newbery.

Now, they also make for a lot of pro's who actually pay them (I know quite a few who pay them).

So, it narrows down to supply and demand. If a test cricketer comes to you and says "I need a top bat", they won't charge him 550 or 600 GBP instead it is fraction of that. But then they have other woods which they have to sell and make money out of.

So, that is where we get "substandard" bats which aren't living up to the brand name/values.

ppccopener · « **Reply #115 on:** May 26, 2020, 03:14:30 PM »

Bats at 650 gbp is so far off my own spectrum I'm not even going to comment on it.

But on topic, back in the day....like a long way back....the Keeleys made pretty much all of Newberys range, grey Nichols at Robertsbridge, Duncan Fernley at Worcester and Slazenger-Yorkshire maybe, at least oop North

Let's say just for arguments sake they were the 'big 4'

At what point did CNC machines start to be involved in batmaking? The demand for sales probably is greater now, the ameteur cricketers have always needed to buy bats thou-so a substantial demand back then.

I ask purely because I don't know, to my knowledge these 'big 4' didn't have a cast of thousands hand carving bats from a raw cleft...

InternalTraining · « **Reply #116 on:** May 26, 2020, 04:46:59 PM »

Quote from: LEACHY48 on May 26, 2020, 04:54:39 AM

This is an open forum where we all voice our opinion on all things cricket. Not sure how me doing this is a waste of time. In the same vein as your reply, if you don't like this thread you have the option to not read or reply.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion though.

But to answer your question, a multitude of manufacturers don't use heavy machining and don't charge an arm and a leg.

Agreed.

Feel free to air your opinions albeit unpopular.

InternalTraining · « **Reply #117 on:** May 26, 2020, 05:01:25 PM »

Here are my thoughts:

- I own and use Keeley made bats and haven't felt any difference compared to a non-CNC'ed bat.
- I love the thin handles.
- All of their bats I own have performed extremely well. So no complaints.
- Their bats are wildly popular now. I have been approached by guys in my league singing praises of Keeley bats and also selling them at a premium. So, word is definitely out. They are enjoying the same name recognition as Lavers once did (which peaked 4 ago years ago in my neck of the wood). Because of this popularity, I feel the prices are what they are right now.
- I bought and stocked on bats before prices sky rocketed. Even then, I paid quite a lot. I bought my first batch of Keeleys thru a vendor , lets call them floozi. I thought the prices were very high then. Now, I buy them from other sources and am paying 65% of what I paid to floozi. Nevertheless, they were good purchases and well timed as the same bats are selling for a lot more now.
- We will keep having these conversations unless we, the consumers, demand standardization of the bat specs. These prices are artificially jacked up to respond to market (pricing and branding) pressures. If every bat maker adhered to same standard of measuring performance and specs, these mystery/novelty pricing elements would disappear.

dt-second-hand-cricket · « **Reply #118 on:** May 26, 2020, 05:07:17 PM »

bugger cricket and the equipment manufacturing - its a dead sport and a dying economic prospect - there is only one thing to worry about this summer

Jelle's Marble Runs and the 2020 Marble League - a proper sport where people don't moan about the 650 quid piece of plywood they decided was worth the cost!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYJdpnjuSWVOLgGT9fIzL0g

jonny77 · « **Reply #119 on:** May 26, 2020, 05:27:26 PM »

Quote from: buddyb on May 26, 2020, 10:23:43 AM

A bat maker is someone who does the whole process from start to finish. Someone who uses a part made isn�t in my opinion. But it�s similar principles you are labelling to top those who use machinery in there processes. A furniture maker who puts the table legs on a copy lathe to turn the leg, you are now say can�t call that table handmade because he didn�t turn the legs himself. Every manufacturer uses machinery in some shape or form. I use to do everything buy hand from the raw cleft. I was told by a surgeon to either give up batmaking or think smart. No large manufacturer could possibly turn out 40k bats a year being fully handmade start to finish. Unless you have a factory in India and pay them �3 a day because the labour costs are so ridiculously cheap.

Kind of agree mate but I think most people nowadays would start with partmades to learn shaping doing before committing to a press etc. There's the financial side to this, but also learning and teaching yourself before getting to the pressing stage. Unfortunately that's the only way I see if getting into it.

My goal is to keep making bats which I'm confident are worth someone's hard earned cash, then hopefully progress to the full process. Not as straightforward as it sounds tho.

However when asked I am completely honest with this and say I make from part mades, I never say that I press myself and wouldn't until I do so.

Author Topic: Keeley cricket and the industry generally (Read 22734 times)

Luke-scicc

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Luke-scicc

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Yorkershire

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Yorkershire

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

KW9221

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Kulli

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Jimbo

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Canners

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

alba caerulea

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

Cover_Drive

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

ppccopener

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

InternalTraining

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

InternalTraining

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

dt-second-hand-cricket

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally

jonny77

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally