Keeley cricket and the industry generally
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jonny77

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2020, 09:09:25 AM »

Whether a CNC is used to get an initial shape or not to me isn't an issue, as this has to be done to get the volume of bats made. Otherwise you just simply couldn't make enough bats as a larger manufacturer, unless you outsourced production to India maybe and then you couldn't advertise 'Made in the UK'.

@buddyb yes I still consider yours handmade, as I do any brand who makes bats by CNC or similar and then refines the shape, balance, handle etc (to name a few I think, H4L, Kippax, Jedi etc etc)

Is it wrong not to advertise CNC use? Not in my opinion as from what I've seen it gets to a rough shape and just takes away a laborious part of the process. I've seen people use electric hands planes instead of draw knives for this same reason, so essentially this doesn't make them handmade? The skill is inbthe pressing obviously, but then also in the 'second stage' shaping. This gives the finished shape and balance. I spoke to a batmaker recently who said 'making a bat from raw cleft by hand is a pain I'm the a@se tbh and takes too long'.

In terms of price I agree that £650 is a lot for a bat, but as people have stated that's a choice and it's down to the individual. There's plenty of cheaper, top quality bats out there.

I've only had one keeley (BB) and it was a great bat. Do I think it's better than others? No. In fact I make mine from clefts which I chose over a few other (what people would call) more established suppliers due to them performing as well if not better imo. But people will pay for the name and reputation, as Keeley have been around for years and obviously know what they're doing. You've got to earn that reputation.

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edge

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #61 on: May 26, 2020, 09:09:59 AM »

A bandsaw is necessary for accuracy and quality control. A CNC isn't. That's why the argument is facetious and farcical.
If you'd really like me to be facetious I'd point out that a well-run CNC is a significantly better tool for both accuracy and quality control than a bandsaw ;)

Noone (or noone sensible) uses a band saw for accuracy, the blade is flexible. Plenty of batmakers do use them for processing clefts though, which they aren't 'necessary' for.

Saw pedantry aside, I just don't really understand what you're after? Are you suggesting batmakers like Keeley/Hunts/buddyb/Salix/Jedi/Chase/ etc etc are misleading customers if they don't advertise their cleft processing methods?
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LEACHY48

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #62 on: May 26, 2020, 09:10:27 AM »

Id think about that statement again, the very nature of the CNC is to allow quality control and repetition due to its accuracy.

The key word is necessary Tom.

A CNC is not necessary.

A bandsaw is.
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edge

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #63 on: May 26, 2020, 09:11:48 AM »

The key word is necessary Tom.

A CNC is not necessary.

A bandsaw is.
What is a bandsaw necessary for? :)
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LEACHY48

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #64 on: May 26, 2020, 09:12:26 AM »

If you'd really like me to be facetious I'd point out that a well-run CNC is a significantly better tool for both accuracy and quality control than a bandsaw ;)

Noone (or noone sensible) uses a band saw for accuracy, the blade is flexible. Plenty of batmakers do use them for processing clefts though, which they aren't 'necessary' for.

Saw pedantry aside, I just don't really understand what you're after? Are you suggesting batmakers like Keeley/Hunts/buddyb/Salix/Jedi/Chase/ etc etc are misleading customers if they don't advertise their cleft processing methods?

A bandsaw fitted with a jig for repetition in handle splicing is clearly more accurate than a coping saw.

I really don't know how much clearer I have to be... There is no transparency in the industry, and that is something that personally I think needs to change.
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LEACHY48

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2020, 09:13:26 AM »

What is a bandsaw necessary for? :)

Fitting a handle with accuracy and precision. A coping saw would be the alternative which clearly isn't as accurate as you can't have a fixed jig meaning you get the same shape each time.
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skip1973

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2020, 09:15:27 AM »

I really don't understand why people think transparency is not important.
Because the majority of bat buyers couldn't care less how their bat is made.
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Umi

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #67 on: May 26, 2020, 09:15:34 AM »

Can someone shed some light on this, Is keeley only using CNC approach on retail bats (batches the are sold to regular consumers) and Completely hand making the bats for the pro’s and his sponsored players. Perhaps that is why there is very little transparency there. I think CNC or handmade it shouldn’t make a difference, pressing and balancing is done by hand.
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LEACHY48

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #68 on: May 26, 2020, 09:16:33 AM »

Because the majority of bat buyers couldn't care less how their bat is made.

So that makes it right? That's an interesting argument if ever I've seen one.
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skip1973

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #69 on: May 26, 2020, 09:19:39 AM »

So that makes it right? That's an interesting argument if ever I've seen one.
It's not an argument or an opinion, it's reality.
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LEACHY48

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2020, 09:20:10 AM »

Because the majority of bat buyers couldn't care less how their bat is made.

@skip1973

Does using sweatshop manufacturing not matter then because the vast majority of people don't care where or how their new Nike shoes are made?
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edge

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2020, 09:20:21 AM »

Fitting a handle with accuracy and precision. A coping saw would be the alternative which clearly isn't as accurate as you can't have a fixed jig meaning you get the same shape each time.
Both a bandsaw and a coping saw would be sub optimal choices for that. A skilled carpenter will be far more accurate with a hand saw than a band saw, so why shouldn't a batmaker use a hand saw? In the subcontinent some brands do.

For transparency - I've just had a look at the Keeley website. I couldn't find any mention of hand made at all, but there are plenty of photos of part shaped bats off the CNC. What's the transparency problem, I honestly don't get it. Should they have a flowchart?
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LEACHY48

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #72 on: May 26, 2020, 09:23:04 AM »

Both a bandsaw and a coping saw would be sub optimal choices for that. A skilled carpenter will be far more accurate with a hand saw than a band saw, so why shouldn't a batmaker use a hand saw? In the subcontinent some brands do.

For transparency - I've just had a look at the Keeley website. I couldn't find any mention of hand made at all, but there are plenty of photos of part shaped bats off the CNC. What's the transparency problem, I honestly don't get it. Should they have a flowchart?

You couldn't find any mention of handmade?
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Simmy

Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #73 on: May 26, 2020, 09:23:42 AM »

you lot crack me up so many bat makers on here.

Moaning about if a CNC is a bit like saying Why do you drive a Car if you can walk everywhere.
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LEACHY48

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Re: Keeley cricket and the industry generally
« Reply #74 on: May 26, 2020, 09:24:54 AM »

you lot crack me up so many bat makers on here.

Moaning about if a CNC is a bit like saying Why do you drive a Car if you can walk everywhere.

Once again, I've said ad nauseam that I don't care if a CNC is used if it transparent.
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