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[FattusCattus]

Lets be realistic - we've got 2 callow spinners, who haven't played much First Class cricket recently, let alone international cricket.

On a pitch offering much help, neither put it in the right place often enough, but both got better the more overs they bowled - and that's the key thing - they won't get any better unless they bowl more overs in the right environment. This is the perfect series to let them bowl plenty, and learn from mistakes.

I feel Leach grasped what was needed much more than Bess and improved through today - Bess, I'm still not sure about, I don;t think he's consistently threatening enough for this level of cricket - but hey, he need's the next test to show us all he's learnt something.

As for Swann, I think there is value in recently retired or still current senior players coaching. I think they understand far more about modern cricket than guys who stopped 10 years ago - the game moves on.

Dickhead or not, why not get Swann in with these guys under the watchful eye of a bowling coach and let him give them the benefit of his experience? And whilst we're at it, get Anderson in with Robinson and Mahmood, Rashid in with the leggies, and Trott/Bell in with Sibley / Crawley?

[Manormanic]

The problem Bess has is that his action is not repeatable, so even the great balls seem to occur largely by accident. He's got potential, but someone like Swann would probably do him a lot of good.

He will get the second test. But - results be damned - I'd love to see them give Virdi a go. He may be a worse all round cricketer than Monty or Tuffers, but the kid is brilliant as a spinner, and his action repeats beautifully.

[FattusCattus]

Well it comes back to the question - on a ragging pitch, do you want someone who can consistently put it on the right place, or a maverick full of all sorts of variation.

In an ideal world, you would have a metronome (Monty) and a maverick (Swanny)

[Jimbo]

The problem Bess has is that his action is not repeatable, so even the great balls seem to occur largely by accident. He's got potential, but someone like Swann would probably do him a lot of good.

He will get the second test. But - results be damned - I'd love to see them give Virdi a go. He may be a worse all round cricketer than Monty or Tuffers, but the kid is brilliant as a spinner, and his action repeats beautifully.

Virdi needs to put the same effort into all his cricket as he does into his bowling if the stories about his fitness issues are to be believed. Definitely looks like he has the requisite ability as a bowler to be a success.

[SLA]

Leach is a much better bowler than bess, who is clearly over coached and mainly picked because he's a good lad. Neither of them have much variation, subtle or otherwise.

[Kulli]

Well it comes back to the question - on a ragging pitch, do you want someone who can consistently put it on the right place, or a maverick full of all sorts of variation.

In an ideal world, you would have a metronome (Monty) and a maverick (Swanny)

Swann was probably nearer a metronome than a maverick, as a bowler anyway.

[ppccopener]

Swann was probably nearer a metronome than a maverick, as a bowler anyway.

Agree with that, he has a lot of revs on the ball but also had a good non spinning one which is absolutely key and was very accurate.

Leach said after the innings he adjusted his pace to the wicket and ended up bowling better as the game went on, that's why I think he is the best we have, if it's turning a lot, land it at decent pace in and around the right spot. If it's not turning try and keep the run rate down, which he does generally.

Bess is not there yet but England want to keep him as he may well get better, he is also a good fielder and has potential to be a good number 8 batsman.

You are then in an area looking at the overall package not just the spin part. That's I guess where and why Moeen is wanted back as quick as possible by England.

I'm absolutely certain had Mo been available he would be in before Leach and Bess in this test match and the next. I think leach  is the most likely to do the job wanted in these matches, Moeen has a record that is pretty good and it's hard to argue against that but IMO Leach is the best we have and has been whenever he has played.

For me he is miles out in front

[rickjames]

Swann, and to a lesser extent Panesar, were once in a generation talents when it comes to English spinners; we won't see anyone even close to their level for quite some time, maybe never the way the domestic structure treats them.

Said it before and I am biased, but I'd love to see Virdi get a go at some point, and whilst he's still very young he seems to have his gameplan in a much better place; he will always go for a few runs, but he's an attacking bowler with a wonderful action. As mentioned above, seemed to have fitness issues in 2019, but after a kick up the (No Swearing Please) from Alec Stewart, seems to be in a much better place.

[Manormanic]

Virdi needs to put the same effort into all his cricket as he does into his bowling if the stories about his fitness issues are to be believed. Definitely looks like he has the requisite ability as a bowler to be a success.

He is a tad portly, I'll grant you. But i'd rather give a few quick singles away than a four ball an over.

[Jimbo]

He is a tad portly, I'll grant you. But i'd rather give a few quick singles away than a four ball an over.

Fitness is an easy one to work on, his fielding and batting will take more effort and hopefully he's willing to put that work in. One of the things I love about Leach is his work ethic, Virdi could learn a thing or two from him. That said, there's no doubt Virdi is a serious bowling prospect.

[billyb]

Professional job done.
94 runs in the match for Lawrence, 82 for Bairstow.
Here's hoping Sibley and Crawley get going soon too!

[Bats_Entertainment]

None of us really know anything of Amar Virdi's work ethic. All we know is that a couple of seasons ago he was left out of a Surrey team for being unfit.

Sky quite rightly highlighted how little bowling England's spinners, particularly Leach, had done in the past year.

[ppccopener]

Leach bowled a lot better as the game went on which is a good sign.
Virdi may be a good prospect but if he is a non batting bowler as I think he is it's going to take a lot to get in the current set up.

We've seen England want more than just one discipline for a while now, Leach can hold an end up and is half decent with the bat, Bess looks like he could score runs from 8 but I don't think is as good as Leach bowling.

Whether that criteria is right or wrong England have gone with it for a while now. Hence wanting Ali on is tour and playing asap-potential runs with the bat in Asia would count for a lot (despite his poor form of the last couple of years)

[wasted_talent]

there'll be some changes next test right?

who do we think will make the xi?

[Manormanic]

Who will? I suspect Anderson and Stone for Broad and Wood, despite Broad having been magnificent.

Who should. OK, I'd like a look at Virdi - we need another spin option for India and leg spin never does well there. I'd go with him ahead of Anderson.