Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170455 times)

Jimbo · « **Reply #960 on:** February 20, 2021, 12:11:41 PM »

Interesting interview with Hales on Sky's YouTube - https://youtu.be/mE82T1HXmOY - genuinely does sound like he's grown up a bit. Can't help feeling if one of Bairstow or Roy get injured then he's clearly the best option available to open in the T20s.

Mtown Don · « **Reply #961 on:** February 20, 2021, 12:20:36 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 20, 2021, 12:07:55 PM

It could be argued that a 'more professional' approach would be that a win is a win?

I would draw a comparison with elite football which I would say is a long way ahead of cricket in terms of professionalism. Do managers play their strongest XI every game or do they rest, rotate, give experience to young players and prioritise between competitions/fixtures?

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #962 on:** February 20, 2021, 12:28:27 PM »

Manchester City don't see a game against Chelsea as of less significance than a game against Manchester United. It's about the 3 points. Sentimentality doesn't come into it.

Jimbo · « **Reply #963 on:** February 20, 2021, 01:01:38 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 20, 2021, 12:28:27 PM

Manchester City don't see a game against Chelsea as of less significance than a game against Manchester United. It's about the 3 points. Sentimentality doesn't come into it.

But they also don't take the FA Cup as seriously as the Champions League.

Mtown Don · « **Reply #964 on:** February 20, 2021, 01:10:04 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 20, 2021, 12:28:27 PM

Manchester City don't see a game against Chelsea as of less significance than a game against Manchester United. It's about the 3 points. Sentimentality doesn't come into it.

Ok, this is a misrepresentation of my point. As I said, I agree that the India series should be seen as equally important to the Ashes series. What I�m saying is that 20 years ago there would have been no concept of rest/rotation (the first I can remember of it is Alec Stewart and Darren Gough I think asking for an India tour off and they were told they could pick formats but not tours) so you wouldn�t have had any cause to complain about not picking the strongest available XI for every single game. Now they do plan preparation towards more difficult series (which I agree the Indian series should be seen as one, although worth remembering the exceptional circumstances at the moment). The latter is definitely a more professional approach.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #965 on:** February 20, 2021, 01:29:09 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on February 20, 2021, 01:01:38 PM

But they also don't take the FA Cup as seriously as the Champions League.

Which is a shame. And not a 'like for like' argument in any case.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #966 on:** February 20, 2021, 01:36:40 PM »

Quote from: Mtown Don on February 20, 2021, 01:10:04 PM

Ok, this is a misrepresentation of my point. As I said, I agree that the India series should be seen as equally important to the Ashes series. What I�m saying is that 20 years ago there would have been no concept of rest/rotation (the first I can remember of it is Alec Stewart and Darren Gough I think asking for an India tour off and they were told they could pick formats but not tours) so you wouldn�t have had any cause to complain about not picking the strongest available XI for every single game. Now they do plan preparation towards more difficult series (which I agree the Indian series should be seen as one, although worth remembering the exceptional circumstances at the moment). The latter is definitely a more professional approach.

But I'm not arguing against rest per se.

I dislike England players being rested and then playing in the IPL. And I dislike all other Test series being so self-consciously seen as 'preparation for the Ashes'.

I don't care too much about the T20 World Cup.

Jimbo · « **Reply #967 on:** February 20, 2021, 01:51:17 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 20, 2021, 01:29:09 PM

Which is a shame. And not a 'like for like' argument in any case.

But then neither is Man City/Man Utd a like for like for Aus-India. The formats of the competitions don't lend themselves to direct comparison, you'd never have Liverpool playing Everton for five games in a row for example.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #968 on:** February 20, 2021, 02:08:09 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on February 20, 2021, 01:51:17 PM

But then neither is Man City/Man Utd a like for like for Aus-India. The formats of the competitions don't lend themselves to direct comparison, you'd never have Liverpool playing Everton for five games in a row for example.

No, Man CIty v Man United is England v Australia in my comparison. Traditional rivals.

I am comparing teams . You are comparing competitions?

The level of perceived importance has nothing to do with the number of matches.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #969 on:** February 20, 2021, 02:15:37 PM »

I also fear that having more than one national team is a cynical ploy to squeeze as much money as possible out of the England 'brand'.

Mtown Don · « **Reply #970 on:** February 20, 2021, 02:17:41 PM »

Quote from: Bats_Entertainment on February 20, 2021, 01:36:40 PM

But I'm not arguing against rest per se.

I dislike England players being rested and then playing in the IPL. And I dislike all other Test series being so self-consciously seen as 'preparation for the Ashes'.

I don't care too much about the T20 World Cup.

Again, I don�t think the �preparation for the Ashes� thing is as widespread as you�re suggesting and I think it�s more of a fan thing than the players (who don�t get me wrong obviously look forward to it on a personal level). The only major discussion that I remember being geared towards preparing for the Ashes is trying to develop a bowling attack that can succeed in those conditions but I think that is prudent anyway as the hit the deck quicks will be useful in almost all conditions.

If anything I think this is a legacy of not having a competition to pull Test series together so I think that team management almost had to pick an arbitrary cycle over which the team could develop and peak and due to their importance to the public Ashes series provided a logical endpoint for that. Interestingly the 2009-11 team aimed towards reaching number 1 status rather than the 2010/11 or 2013 Ashes. It will be interesting to see if this changes as the Test championship evolves.

Sorry for bringing in the football analogy by the way, unwise!

shax12 · « **Reply #971 on:** February 20, 2021, 05:59:12 PM »

Quote from: alexhilly1492 on February 20, 2021, 09:34:52 AM

Except winning 3-1/3-0/4-0 in India was never really achievable

And this is designed to get the best 11 on the field for 5 ashes tests

That is a poor mindset. Then what's the point playing don't tour India or send England C team or under 19s.

A WTC Final is on stake and pressure is more on India as they playing home and also need to win to get to the final of the WTC. The first test showed England can win in India and you need to try atleast not this attitude and mindset oh we going to lose so let's rotate players.

shax12 · « **Reply #972 on:** February 20, 2021, 06:01:18 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on February 20, 2021, 01:01:38 PM

But they also don't take the FA Cup as seriously as the Champions League.

A place in the World Test Championship final is in place. So this series was much more important then Ashes. Would you rather win the first WTC or Ashes.
WTC is going to be equivalent to ODI World Cup or more.

alexhilly1492 · « **Reply #973 on:** February 20, 2021, 06:36:47 PM »

Quote from: shax12 on February 20, 2021, 05:59:12 PM

That is a poor mindset. Then what's the point playing don't tour India or send England C team or under 19s.

A WTC Final is on stake and pressure is more on India as they playing home and also need to win to get to the final of the WTC. The first test showed England can win in India and you need to try atleast not this attitude and mindset oh we going to lose so let's rotate players.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but it doesn't stop it being true

six and out · « **Reply #974 on:** February 20, 2021, 06:39:01 PM »

Quote from: shax12 on February 20, 2021, 06:01:18 PM

A place in the World Test Championship final is in place. So this series was much more important then Ashes. Would you rather win the first WTC or Ashes.
WTC is going to be equivalent to ODI World Cup or more.

Sorry but I couldn't disagree more.
Winning The Ashes down under is the Holy Grail as far as I am concerned. The World Test Championship is nothing more than a competition (and not a very good one at that as the points system is screwed) to try and get some interest in test cricket in countries where there isn't any. The WTC won't change that there are far far bigger issues.

That is not to say I agree with the rotation though, but in a year of 17 tests (which is crazy) and a 2020WC and IPL all in bio-bubbles, then needs must.

Author Topic: ENG vs IND series (Read 170455 times)

Jimbo

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Mtown Don

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Bats_Entertainment

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Jimbo

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Mtown Don

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Bats_Entertainment

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Bats_Entertainment

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Jimbo

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Bats_Entertainment

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Bats_Entertainment

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Mtown Don

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shax12

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shax12

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alexhilly1492

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six and out

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