What to ask for?
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cobweb1510

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What to ask for?
« on: February 19, 2021, 01:04:20 PM »

Hi all,

New to the forum, so I thought I would both introduce myself and raise an interesting problem I had that you might be able to help me (and others) with in the future.

I'm a non cricketing dad of an 11 yo wicket keeper batsman.

A couple of years ago a colleague who's son also played told me about getting her son a custom made bat at Warrior. Whilst I thought a custom made bat for a 10 year old was excessive the price was actually less than the similar branded bats we would have been looking at for a new one. It also gave us the opportunity to drive to the workshop and watch the bats being made. So hopefully he would appreciate the craftsmanship, quality and value of what he had- rather than it just being a bat. So we made arrangements to visit the workshop (pre Covid) and spent an hour being shown all the different aspects of the process, which was great, and got down to the issue of what we wanted in the new bat.

Here's where I ran into a problem- I just didn't know what I wanted from a bat! I can see an experienced cricketer would have a preferred batting style that a bat can be made to suit, but this isn't the case for a young batsman. The bowling is so erratic you can't really predict what you will be facing, and his batting "style" is practically non-existent as he is still learning how to bat. I can't even really comment on the weight- the size of the bat is determined by his height- but neither of us know whether he would/should want a heavy or light bat within that sizing. Ian was really patient with us, but we just didn't know what to ask for. I almost felt we would have been better served going to a shop where Ollie could have waved some bats around and picked one. We ended up basically choosing a "default" Warrior in a size 4- but it felt as if we had missed out on some of the advantages of getting the bat custom made.

This all feels a bit negative- this is only because I am focussing on a problem I had- nothing to do with Warrior. Ollie loved visiting the workshop and seeing the bats being made by hand. He got his bat for his birthday and loved it immediately. The bat was beautiful, and seemed to play very well. He definitely seemed to appreciate it more- it didn't get thrown on the ground like so many of his friends bats- he felt/knew he had something special. He has now outgrown his bat, and his Christmas present was a simple decision- he wanted another- just the same as the last one! This time I just phoned up and asked for a size 5 bat.

So my question is a simple one- for a young player learning the game and without a deep understanding of batting (either in general or specifically about their own game) what should I be looking for in a bat generally or specifically when we have the infinite options of a custom bat?

Thanks in advance

Andy
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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2021, 01:34:16 PM »

Great question!

As you mention, where possible its a great option to go and pick bats up and see what feels best in the hand. At that age group, depending on the level they are playing at there isnt really anything specific you should go to a maker/shop and ask for. As they progress through the age groups and have more experience they will gain an understanding of what they want and then can advise makers better. Load of experienced cricketers put requests for bespoke bats in and when they get it its not what the envisaged (no fault of the maker) so how is a junior who is just starting out supposed to get it right.

Its a great experience having a bat made up however if you dont know what you want then it may be a bit overkill initially.

If the bat feels right and performs well then they wont go far wrong. Its all about the enjoyment and getting out on the field that is the main thing.

That's my thoughts anyway. I hope it helps a bit.
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jonny77

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2021, 01:41:22 PM »

I'd agree with the above. I haven't looked af offering junior bats, as at that age with how quickly they grow I just think off the shelf bats will be fine. It's just making sure it's not overly heavy imo. I'd just make sure it's English willow and is the right size and weight.

I played my best cricket from 11 - 17 when I didn't even think about the bat I was using, I just played. People can over complicate it, which imo isn't what a young cricketer needs (or anyone else for that matter! 😆)
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Jimbo

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2021, 01:47:25 PM »

If you've already had a bat from the same maker that he liked, why not just have that replicated in larger sizes as he gets older?

This forum has a tendency to tempt you to go searching for the "perfect" bat instead of realising that you've got something you like and should just get that again!
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Gurujames

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2021, 02:10:09 PM »

My 2 kids have grown up playing cricket and in my experience from watching the matches, where the standard varies wildly week on week I would encourage the following:
1. The grade of the bat makes NO difference to performance
2. Many of the matches are on Astro, many of the bowlers like giving the ball ‘air’, so I would strongly encourage a high middle.
3. You are right, a custom bat is often no more expensive, though in many cases is of a superior quality.
I always went the Red Ink Cricket for my junior bats. Great quality, service and price.
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blindowl

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2021, 02:13:47 PM »

I echo some of the previous comments - Avoid going to heavy! I had bats when i was young that had cool stickers and the 'right' branding but in all honesty were way too heavy for me. - I'm sure it held back my game.

For younger players I quite like the crude test of grabbing the bat at the top of the handle (one handed) and try to hold it out horizontally in front of you. If you cant hold it out comfortably its too heavy.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2021, 03:16:50 PM »

Just go to the workshop and let him pick some up again. Nice to hear of an appreciative child.
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InternalTraining

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2021, 03:17:10 PM »

So my question is a simple one- for a young player learning the game and without a deep understanding of batting (either in general or specifically about their own game) what should I be looking for in a bat generally or specifically when we have the infinite options of a custom bat?

Great question! It doesn't just apply to young cricketers but also to older/clubbies who can't seem to find a good bat.

After going thru dozens of bats, retail and custom, the only reason for getting a custom bat made is to replicate a bat that has served you well.

The custom bats I had had made were based on what I thought would serve me well but in reality were often off the mark. Only after trying many retail/popular shapes, I stumbled upon something that worked well for me. I had that shape replicated by the original designer of the "retail" bat. It worked out great.

In terms of technical specs, nobody really knows or understands what exact measures/specs work for them. It is a crap shoot. Thru trial-and-error, people figure out what weight, shape, length, handle thickness etc. works for them.

If your son already likes a bat and it works well for him, just have the custom bat maker replicate the same bat proportional to your growing son.

To answer your question specifically: you ask for what you know thru trial-and-error. There is no science yet to indicate what works for every individual in a custom bat. Trial-and-error is the key; once you figure out what is working, stick to that shape/style of bat. Let a cricketer's physiology identify what works for that body.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 03:18:42 PM by InternalTraining »
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Buzz

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2021, 03:54:18 PM »

Welcome to the forum
As someone who also has an 11 year old keeper batsman son, I feel able to comment...

Size and weight are key.
Don't buy a bat that is too big.
And get a light bat.

For a kid that age, buying off the shelf is probably easier than going custom.

Honestly most bat firms import bats from India, so don't be afraid to look at Indian bats.

I have had a lot of success with buy ss bats for my son.

My younger son has a gn bat which is amazing too.

Edit. I asked my 11 year old son thought and he said...
Get one that you can smack the ball with.

Oh. Simple really.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 04:04:04 PM by Buzz »
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cobweb1510

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2021, 03:59:19 PM »

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts.

I would never have considered a custom made bat until my colleague mentioned it. I actually thought she was just bragging about spending a lot of money on something (she's a bit posh) but it was £70 - so about the same as a brand name bat which he would have wanted to replace his old bat. She was actually just being really nice!  I doubt it improved his game in any measurable way, but we got so much extra value from the experience and that perceived "specialness" of the bat. This was actually the reason for going this route, so I was delighted with the decision. I doubt he would have spent any time looking at the grains or concaving on a retail bat as a 10 year old boy, but knowing Ian had spent time carving out the shape made it feel more important. A cricket bat as an aesthetic thing of beauty! Besides, I love the idea of a genuine craftsman beavering away in a workshop as opposed to pallets being shipped across the world.

As I said above, he loved the bat and we have bought a new bigger sized one.

It's been very interesting to hear peoples thoughts here. It sounds like I was just over thinking things- which is a problem when I don't have any experience as a player myself. I was just reflecting on the ideas of bats that "feel good" and trial and error. I wonder if there's a chicken/egg situation here- if Ollie keeps using Warrior bats he will get used to their individual characteristics and those characteristics will become his "favoured" bat, whereas another player using a different brand would learn to prefer that brands characteristics.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.


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SD

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2021, 04:15:41 PM »

As much as anything, sport is played in the mind.  If you can walk out a more confident batsman, you will play better even if you are no more talented.

There is definitely a chicken and egg situation in that if you have had success in the past with a brand, you will have confidence in the future that can lead to success.  I have had many a team mate who has suffered a loss of confidence and a resulting loss of form from breaking a bat they have had success with.

If your son has had success with a particular bat, I would go for the same again in the next size up!
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InternalTraining

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2021, 04:16:55 PM »

I wonder if there's a chicken/egg situation here- if Ollie keeps using Warrior bats he will get used to their individual characteristics and those characteristics will become his "favoured" bat, whereas another player using a different brand would learn to prefer that brands characteristics.

That is exactly what happens.

Sachin Tendulkar used a heavy bat because he grew up using his older brother's bat which were big and heavy for him.
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Chompy9760

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2021, 04:29:59 AM »

I'd agree that younger / shorter kids need more of a high middle bat.
The shorter you are, the higher the balls go past you.  While you will still get a few to drive low in the bat, statistically you will get more passing high on the bat, and more pulls and cuts.
Will that make your kid more runs?  Well, that's debatable!

As mentioned, the correct size and weight will have a bigger impact.
Confidence in the bat is probably more important than the bat itself, but more power to you for getting something custom made.
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jayralh

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2021, 05:32:13 AM »

Check what kind of handle is on Warrior bat and get something similar off the shelf. I Would recommend GM diamond as it has wood spread all over so well balanced for kid.
For nice oval handle I will go for kookaburra. Try Pace model if you can manage as they supposed to be light weight.
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cobweb1510

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Re: What to ask for?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2021, 04:18:43 PM »

Check what kind of handle is on Warrior bat and get something similar off the shelf. I Would recommend GM diamond as it has wood spread all over so well balanced for kid.
For nice oval handle I will go for kookaburra. Try Pace model if you can manage as they supposed to be light weight.

I've already bought the bat (and a second!)

You raise an interesting idea for the future though, when taken with the other comments. My current thinking is when he outgrows this bat I will be going back to Warrior for #3, but if that should change for some reason then I should probably take the current bat with me so we can try to get something similar- since that is what he's grown up with and is used to. All handles look the same to me, but I've read about round and oval ones. I assume a bat-maker, or even a cricket shop, could use that to identify the bats characteristics and make/find something similar which he is likely to get on with.
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