Topic: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22 (Read 90717 times)

SouthpawMark · « **Reply #135 on:** December 08, 2021, 09:51:52 AM »

On the plus side, if England get battered in the Ashes (which I think they will do) it will likely hasten the exit of Silverwood, which will only be a good thing for England.

ppccopener · « **Reply #136 on:** December 08, 2021, 10:12:34 AM »

I don�t know what to make of last night if I�m honest.
The pitch did indeed remain green as it looked 2 days out. I always want a spinner in but thought Anderson would play, not sure about Broad�but we had neither.

On the plus side Pope did well he will do well long term, hasseb and Butler played well.

I think�.we need rain to shorten this match and get out with a draw

Kez · « **Reply #137 on:** December 08, 2021, 10:26:55 AM »

I don't get that this is Silverwood's problem. Our batting lineup just isn't good enough! And not any candidates in county cricket that are really sticking their hand up to be selected.

As for the bowling attack, they have picked their best spinner. And then the quickest bowler we've got. Then two reliable options that have had solid summers. Omitting two legends of the game yes, but one hasn't had a proper run out after a long lay off and the other is being saved for the next test. Back to back tests as 39yo seamer isn't going to be a easy on limited practice.

LockieEP · « **Reply #138 on:** December 08, 2021, 10:52:16 AM »

Yep, batting is a key issue and not going to get sorted anytime soon. With the counties and ECB focused on revenue from T20 and !00 the longer formats suffer - plus with championship starting in April etc. it doesnt help techniques. Added to that at academy level they are also focused on the short game - my two lads are involved with Sussex and they want to develop T20 players. My eldest was criticized for being too slow as looked for run a ball rather than smashing it.

First test was key as sets the tone for the series....I know why they batted first but a risk with our line up and safer to bowl first.

Glad I didn't stay up to watch lets all do a rain dance!

Jimbo · « **Reply #139 on:** December 08, 2021, 11:17:10 AM »

I think there is increasingly a case for greater separation between the red and white ball setups.

Increasingly they're requiring different skillsets and that's as true of coaching and support staff as it is of players.

Not sure I believe any one person can juggle the responsibilities of selecting, managing and improving both red and white ball sides.

Side note - while I agree nobody is absolutely screaming for red ball inclusion, I'm not sure that the likes of Burns/Malan are absolutely screaming to be retained longer term either.

Devondumpling00 · « **Reply #140 on:** December 08, 2021, 12:04:28 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on December 08, 2021, 11:17:10 AM

I think there is increasingly a case for greater separation between the red and white ball setups.

Increasingly they're requiring different skillsets and that's as true of coaching and support staff as it is of players.

Not sure I believe any one person can juggle the responsibilities of selecting, managing and improving both red and white ball sides.

Side note - while I agree nobody is absolutely screaming for red ball inclusion, I'm not sure that the likes of Burns/Malan are absolutely screaming to be retained longer term either.

I agree with you Jimbo. But I look at other teams and their squads often look the same. I think of Australia with Warner and Smith. India with KL Rahul and Rohit. Pakistan with Babar and Rizwan. Other teams around the world can often incorporate their T20 stars into the test side and remain successful.

Bungle · « **Reply #141 on:** December 08, 2021, 12:54:19 PM »

That went about as well as expected.

Jimbo · « **Reply #142 on:** December 08, 2021, 01:11:36 PM »

Quote from: Devondumpling00 on December 08, 2021, 12:04:28 PM

I agree with you Jimbo. But I look at other teams and their squads often look the same. I think of Australia with Warner and Smith. India with KL Rahul and Rohit. Pakistan with Babar and Rizwan. Other teams around the world can often incorporate their T20 stars into the test side and remain successful.

England have Stokes, Buttler, Archer, Woakes, Malan from the T20s plus Root and Wood from the wider white ball squad, so it's not like they don't have cross format players.

I think it wouldn't hurt though to look at the red ball skillset of their squad and try to bring in a few more guys whose approach is more suited to facilitating the talent of Root, Stokes, Pope, etc.

A good analogy is looking at PSG with Neymar, Mbappe and Messi. Phenomenal, exciting players but their team isn't really set up to make the most of them and the rest of the side isn't best suited to facilitating their talents.

Hameed seems to be making his way back to the player we thought he could be but I'd like to see more nuggety players in the top 3. Maybe not guys who will average a huge amount or smash teams, but experienced heads who will grind out a 30/40 and set a platform.

Burns is a bizarre one because he either seems to get out for zip or make a significant contribution. Not sure Malan is the best option at 3, wouldn't object to them selecting a third opener or demoting Burns to 3 and bringing in someone else up top.

Devondumpling00 · « **Reply #143 on:** December 08, 2021, 01:53:41 PM »

Quote from: Jimbo on December 08, 2021, 01:11:36 PM

England have Stokes, Buttler, Archer, Woakes, Malan from the T20s plus Root and Wood from the wider white ball squad, so it's not like they don't have cross format players.

I think it wouldn't hurt though to look at the red ball skillset of their squad and try to bring in a few more guys whose approach is more suited to facilitating the talent of Root, Stokes, Pope, etc.

A good analogy is looking at PSG with Neymar, Mbappe and Messi. Phenomenal, exciting players but their team isn't really set up to make the most of them and the rest of the side isn't best suited to facilitating their talents.

Hameed seems to be making his way back to the player we thought he could be but I'd like to see more nuggety players in the top 3. Maybe not guys who will average a huge amount or smash teams, but experienced heads who will grind out a 30/40 and set a platform.

Burns is a bizarre one because he either seems to get out for zip or make a significant contribution. Not sure Malan is the best option at 3, wouldn't object to them selecting a third opener or demoting Burns to 3 and bringing in someone else up top.

Sorry Jimbo, my point was more suggesting that the argument to stop the selection of "white ball" players for tests isn't valid. Talent is talent as Smith, Babar, Rizwan, Rohit etc illustrate, no matter the format.

In truth, I don't know many county players who are actually pushing for selection. Part of that is my ignorance as I am a Somerset fan. The team should be well set between 4-7 with Root, Stokes, Pope and Buttler/Foakes. Hameed is looking promising once again, but I don't know how long his leash is. Should be be expecting him to average 40 this series like any good opener?

ppccopener · « **Reply #144 on:** December 08, 2021, 02:58:33 PM »

Quote from: Devondumpling00 on December 08, 2021, 01:53:41 PM

Sorry Jimbo, my point was more suggesting that the argument to stop the selection of "white ball" players for tests isn't valid. Talent is talent as Smith, Babar, Rizwan, Rohit etc illustrate, no matter the format.

In truth, I don't know many county players who are actually pushing for selection. Part of that is my ignorance as I am a Somerset fan. The team should be well set between 4-7 with Root, Stokes, Pope and Buttler/Foakes. Hameed is looking promising once again, but I don't know how long his leash is. Should be be expecting him to average 40 this series like any good opener?

Don�t think it matters your a Somerset fan, the rest of us cannot name 5 others banging the door down because there are not 5 other names who would do any better.

The best players are out there. England have backed Crawley and Pope with contracts are that looks on potential to be right. Sibley got binned maybe or maybe not to come again.

As an England fan I�m not expecting Hameed to average 40, he�s young and needs time. I do think we need significant contributions from the senior players just to compete in this series.

Our batting resources are very thin indeed. We might just have to suck it up at the end of the day

We are not that good a test side. We are pretty average.

Jimbo · « **Reply #145 on:** December 08, 2021, 03:00:34 PM »

My point about separation of the white and red ball setups was more about the coaching and selection than pigeonholing players as one or the other.

I don't particularly agree with the philosophy of picking a player for red ball based on good white ball form though, especially not in T20.

Bungle · « **Reply #146 on:** December 08, 2021, 05:19:52 PM »

Playing well in white ball formats just simply doesn't translate well over to red ball. The mindset you need to have is completely different, it's unfortunate we have so many good white ball players but so many average red ball players.

Devondumpling00 · « **Reply #147 on:** December 08, 2021, 05:58:56 PM »

Quote from: Bungle on December 08, 2021, 05:19:52 PM

Playing well in white ball formats just simply doesn't translate well over to red ball. The mindset you need to have is completely different, it's unfortunate we have so many good white ball players but so many average red ball players.

Bairstow is a good example of this. He has prioritised white ball cricket since 2018, probably to help win the World cup in 2019. But look at his test career in 2016, he was a world beater. That doesn't just go away, he switched priority and mindset toward white ball.

There were a few calls to take Livingstone down under and I agree with you. Not sure it would've worked out at all.

SOULMAN1012 · « **Reply #148 on:** December 08, 2021, 08:25:18 PM »

Always been a massive fan of Crawley and feel that burns has maybe this test and the next before he is replaced with Zak at the top. Just a gut feeling nothing more.

I really do think that England do need to separate totally the red ball and white ball game as the differences are just vast and with the amount of cricket our national side plays it�s near on impossible to flip between the two successfully in my opinion.

Must say Aus bowled and caught superbly abs they have less cricket under there belts than us and had same warm up issues

shadowlight · « **Reply #149 on:** December 08, 2021, 09:30:32 PM »

This is just an observation from a neutral cricket fan. The England administration, media and majority of the fans put too much emphasis on The Ashes. Everything that is done is in preparation, which imho is just asking for chopping and changing personnel. The obsession with average does not help much either. I rather have the top 3 score 30+ runs each but chew up 40 to 50 overs, which basically allows Root, Stokes, Pope, Buttler crack at bowlers that are tired and not face them like yesterday. That was the template that India used last year, where Pujara did not score much but he chewed up a lot of balls which tired out Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood.

Author Topic: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22 (Read 90717 times)

SouthpawMark

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ppccopener

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Kez

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LockieEP

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Jimbo

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Devondumpling00

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Bungle

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Jimbo

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Devondumpling00

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ppccopener

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Jimbo

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Bungle

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Devondumpling00

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shadowlight

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