Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
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Warneymonster

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #375 on: December 17, 2021, 12:39:33 PM »

we let them get away today, shouldnt have got past 410 but we didnt bowl well enough at the tail again. Burns needs to be 'rested' otherwise the aussies will destroy any confidence he has left by the end of this series.

on the upside, pitch looks flat so hopefully we can bat for a draw
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SLA

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #376 on: December 17, 2021, 01:11:55 PM »

I would say the batting line up of the 90’s was worse but not far off. Here is a question are they just not good enough or are they just really A) out of form B) really low on confidence C) coaching just nit developing them enough for the step up for test match cricket

You'd take this lot over the likes of Gooch, Atherton, Smith, Hussain, Thorpe, and Stewart? Really?

Even the relative "failures" of the 90s, guys like Ramprakash, Crawley, and Hick, were a class above Burns, Sibley, Hameed, Malan, Bairstow, etc etc
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SLA

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #377 on: December 17, 2021, 01:32:35 PM »

So simple question do the ECB need to break the red ball test side away from one day side ie just specialist red ball players that take this over white ball cricket. You may not get the glamour names but those that are specifically picked for 5 day cricket


The entire setup from county age group upwards is focused on producing the best T20 cricketers possible and has been for a decade now - Back in the late 2000s, as CAG coaches we were *instructed* by the ECB to prioritise teaching kids white balls skills and not to worry about traditional red ball skills - they were seen as fuddy duddy and old fashioned. Young batsmen are expected to be able to score quickly and hit powerfully on flat tracks - if the pitch does a bit and all the kids get bowled playing across the line, then its criticised for being a bad pitch, rather than the kids being criticised for having poor technique. I was talking to an umpire about this last night who had also observed this.

Pace bowlers are expected to be rapid and have multiple variations, the ability to swing and seam the ball both ways is no longer a priority. Two-man boundary catch routines are now practiced significantly more often than standard slip catches.

So it shouldn't be a surprise when the system produces lots of good T20 players and no good test cricketers, and as long as this system is in place, we will never produce any. The ECB know this but don't care. White ball is the priority now.


Of course there are still red ball specialists around the county game - but these are generally players who aren't quite good enough to play white ball cricket and so focus on red ball as a fall back option. With all due respect they're generally just not that good.


The current England team is a mixture of talented cricketers who in another era might have had good test careers - Buttler, Bairstow etc - but who have focused on white ball cricket to the detriment of their red ball abilities, and red ball specialists like Burns, Sibley, Hameed, etc, who are honestly just not that good, and 20 years ago would have been county journeymen without a glimmer of a chance of an England call up. (I might also put Robinson and Leach into this category)
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #378 on: December 17, 2021, 02:07:46 PM »

Coaching standards at youth level are diabolical. ECB has prioritised quantity of coaches over quality in order to justify taking the Sky money. It's a bad attempt to redress fall in participation rates caused by taking the game off terrestrial television. One with consequences.

That's before we start talking about county cricket
scheduling (again).

It would possibly help if people stopped referring to cricket as 'red-ball cricket'?
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #379 on: December 17, 2021, 02:09:25 PM »

Burns, Sibley and Hameed would have been better players twenty years ago.
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SouthpawMark

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #380 on: December 17, 2021, 02:40:50 PM »

If the ECB’s mandate is for coaches to produce rapid bowlers with multiple variations, why is it that we churn out endless 80mph right arm seamers? Because that’s exactly the type of bowling that gets wickets on ECB mandated green tops in county cricket.

What I would give for a rapid 90mph+ left arm speedster. The Aussies always seem to have one coming through (Tait, then Johnson, now Starc). Their population and participation levels are a fraction of ours, so the issue obviously lies in the administration of the game.
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Jimbo

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #381 on: December 17, 2021, 02:50:40 PM »

Robinson a county journeyman? Have you been watching any England cricket this year @SLA ?
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AJ2014

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #382 on: December 17, 2021, 03:07:58 PM »


I will say this Ashes was lost from the ball 1 when Burns got himself out the way he did!
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #383 on: December 17, 2021, 03:09:41 PM »

Shaun Tait bowled with his right-arm. He took five wickets in 3 Test matches at an average of 60.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #384 on: December 17, 2021, 03:16:17 PM »


I will say this Ashes was lost from the ball 1 when Burns got himself out the way he did!

You don't think professional sportsmen are a little more resilient?
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billyb

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #385 on: December 17, 2021, 03:23:03 PM »

Well that was terrible.  :(
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golders

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #386 on: December 17, 2021, 03:59:44 PM »


I will say this Ashes was lost from the ball 1 when Burns got himself out the way he did!

Wasn't the ideal start though,really now was it? Pretty emphatic and disheartening to lose your opening bat, castled embarrassingly first ball of the entire series.
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shadowlight

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #387 on: December 17, 2021, 04:21:49 PM »

Hadn't realised Foakes had gone home because he did feature in my masterplan.  :(

Any information on why he is back in England?
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six and out

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #388 on: December 17, 2021, 04:31:40 PM »

We have just been docked more WTC points for slow over rate, we are better off not playing!

Also in other news.... a bloke was seen holding up a sign saying 'Rory Burns Can't Bat' at the darts! 🤣
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Devondumpling00

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Re: Ashes Test Series - 2021/22
« Reply #389 on: December 17, 2021, 04:52:32 PM »

You don't think professional sportsmen are a little more resilient?

He didn't want first nut again today either against Starc. Got him in the 3rd over anyway. He's done for this series.
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