Topic: Is this acceptable? (Read 4631 times)

Jimbo · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2022, 04:50:16 PM »

Quote from: Thamesvalley on December 10, 2022, 04:22:23 PM

Doubt a kids toy is a fair comparison

Please tell me this is a joke and you've not somehow put a negative spin on the use of a figure of speech to describe a very light pickup...

cobweb1510 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2022, 05:57:02 PM »

Probable final update on this, unless things unexpectedly take a massive turn for the worse- or the thread spins off into it's own direction as can happen!

Contacted the bat maker today by message since he was closed- didn't expect a reply before Monday, but he got straight back to me.

Apparently the 2-12 wasn't finished, so that- with the handle- might well account for the difference in expectations. I'm sure Ollie wasn't factoring in the additional weight of "dressing", whereas the bat maker probably was.

I think we have to be slightly careful with the age thing- whilst Ollie is 13, he's almost foot taller than some he plays with (we lent a friend's boy a size 4 bat last year and he's a year older!). He's also played football against lads that dwarf him! Having said that, 2-13 appears to be heavy even for an adult bat, and I would think it is fair to at least question whether a bat that heavy is suitable. Maybe he could have been more insistent, but I guess if you think that's what's been asked for, then you ultimately have to make what your told (even when the customer is 13!)

Anyway. that's all by the by. He's happy to take some weight out and bring it down to 2-11, no problem.

I've said I'll keep it till after Christmas so it can be opened on the 25th, then we'll send it back for it's post Christmas diet.

Thanks everyone for the input. I wasn't entirely sure what was reasonable to expect with regard to the weight in the first place, or the capacity for a solution. I've always had a really positive relationship with this chap, and didn't want to spoil it by asking for something unreasonable.

alba caerulea · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2022, 06:07:04 PM »

Quote from: cobweb1510 on December 10, 2022, 05:57:02 PM

Probable final update on this, unless things unexpectedly take a massive turn for the worse- or the thread spins off into it's own direction as can happen!

I think we have to be slightly careful with the age thing- whilst Ollie is 13, he's almost foot taller than some he plays with (we lent a friend's boy a size 4 bat last year and he's a year older!). He's also played football against lads that dwarf him! Having said that, 2-13 appears to be heavy even for an adult bat, and I would think it is fair to at least question whether a bat that heavy is suitable. Maybe he could have been more insistent, but I guess if you think that's what's been asked for, then you ultimately have to make what your told (even when the customer is 13!)

Anyway. that's all by the by. He's happy to take some weight out and bring it down to 2-11, no problem.

I've said I'll keep it till after Christmas so it can be opened on the 25th, then we'll send it back for it's post Christmas diet.

Thanks everyone for the input. I wasn't entirely sure what was reasonable to expect with regard to the weight in the first place, or the capacity for a solution. I've always had a really positive relationship with this chap, and didn't want to spoil it by asking for something unreasonable.

I think you should also consider that height has absolutely zero correlation with strength or power. So whilst the SH size may be the correct length bat for a tall 13 year old it is unlikely that a bat above 2.9 is the correct weight for match use.

Sounds like the maker has explained the confusion and will put things right so hats off to them and alls well that ends well.

Kai · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2022, 06:22:01 PM »

Good on the bat maker to sort things out. Glad it ended well.

Thamesvalley · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2022, 06:34:57 PM »

If it was me that�s a lot of weight to take out and chnages the shape completely

Your son may not care however although as long as you�re happy that�s all that matters

jonny77 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2022, 11:14:03 PM »

2oz isn't a huge amount of weight to take out. Its not ideal, but if the bats big in volume you can lose that in concaving/dropping the edge slightly and the shape wouldn't really change at all.

Not sure what you mean @cobweb1510 by saying he said the bat at 2lbs 12oz wasn't finished? It was still 2lbs 12oz and assume it was bound and gripped, so regardless he was swinging a 2lbs 12oz around. Only things to add wild be a scuff and stickers potentially, which wouldn't add even an Oz

cobweb1510 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 11, 2022, 01:16:30 AM »

Quote from: jonny77 on December 10, 2022, 11:14:03 PM

2oz isn't a huge amount of weight to take out. Its not ideal, but if the bats big in volume you can lose that in concaving/dropping the edge slightly and the shape wouldn't really change at all.

Not sure what you mean @cobweb1510 by saying he said the bat at 2lbs 12oz wasn't finished? It was still 2lbs 12oz and assume it was bound and gripped, so regardless he was swinging a 2lbs 12oz around. Only things to add wild be a scuff and stickers potentially, which wouldn't add even an Oz

Apparently the 2-12 didn't have a binding or grip, so it sounds like it would have come out at a similar weight to the one we got. He was swinging a few around, so I must have got them mixed up. I'm not a player, so to be honest I wasn't really paying much attention beyond making sure he wasn't in danger of hitting anything! I was happy to defer to Oliver saying what he wanted, especially as he actually seemed to be pretty good at communicating what he was thinking. I was just enjoying watching him discussing cricket bats! There was very little "spec" talk- nothing about specific weights or edge size or grains. Much more organic- yes, I like that, that feels a bit less comfy to swing, that kind of thing. I did notice today (when I did a final check on the weight to make sure I hadn't done anything stupid) that there is no concaving, so felt there was probably scope for some reduction there, and there is no requirement for gauge filling edges etc.

I'm actually assuming he plans to reduce the weight- he could well be intending to replace it. I'm happy with either outcome.

Rez · « **Reply #22 on:** December 11, 2022, 05:24:24 PM »

Blimey, you did well to find a Harrow at over 2'8!

Bat weight is s funny one isn't it. As other have already stated, 2'12 would be regarded by most adults as a very heavy bat I'm sure and it does seem very heavy indeed for a 13 year old. The extra weight would certainly force him to play in a certain way and could well hamper his reaction time against quicker bowling. That said, it didn't seem to do Tendulkar much harm. He was well known for wielding a 3lb+ bat but has also gone on record as saying that he always used a heavy bat from a young age.

Personally, I would probably try and get him to use a lighter bat but I guess if it feels right.... it feels right.

cobweb1510 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 11, 2022, 08:00:28 PM »

Quote from: Rez on December 11, 2022, 05:24:24 PM

Blimey, you did well to find a Harrow at over 2'8!

Bat weight is s funny one isn't it. As other have already stated, 2'12 would be regarded by most adults as a very heavy bat I'm sure and it does seem very heavy indeed for a 13 year old. The extra weight would certainly force him to play in a certain way and could well hamper his reaction time against quicker bowling. That said, it didn't seem to do Tendulkar much harm. He was well known for wielding a 3lb+ bat but has also gone on record as saying that he always used a heavy bat from a young age.

Personally, I would probably try and get him to use a lighter bat but I guess if it feels right.... it feels right.

It is funny- especially as I've always thought I was being very careful not to give him a bat which was too heavy. When he was younger I bought him a size 4, as he was the correct height for a size 4. I refused to buy him a size 5 until he was tall enough according to the charts. I saw lots of kids being bought bats that were too big/heavy and how much harder it made learning to bat. This has continued through size 6 and Harrow, even whilst all his friends were using bigger bats. The thing is, whilst there are easily findable tables re. suitable bat sizes, there's almost nothing about how much a different sized bat should weigh- although as we've seen in this discussion that appears to be a very open question. It was this question that led me to this forum initially. We'd been recommended the bat maker, but I simply didn't know what kind of questions I should be asking. It sounds like his bats have been pretty heavy all along, although they seem to "pick up" pretty light. I assume that's in the balancing skill by the batmaker. I can't remember exactly why, but Ollies very curmudgeonly batting coach actually commented last year on Ollies bat being nice and light, so he obviously didn't feel it was heavy or restricting him at all.

It seems logical to me that if he's using a Harrow aged 12 that weighs 2-8/9 then his next bat up should be heavier. I'm not sure how much- but even 4oz (100g) doesn't seem like much of a step up in mass for bats being used by a boy of 12 and the same boy at 15! I think what I am coming to recognise is this probably isn't going to be the last bat I buy! I think in my head I had visions of getting this blade rehandled to a long handle when he reaches 6'3"; Now I'm resigned to having to find another �300 further down the line! At least this one might last more than 1 season!

Rez · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2022, 08:40:22 PM »

There really is no right or wrong. It speaks volumes that 2 of the greatest batsmen that have ever played the game, Tendulkar and Lara were at complete opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of bat weight. Batting is all about feel so if something feels right then go with it.

From a coaching perspective, my only concern would be that a bat that is too big or too heavy can have an impact on a young players development but if his coach is happy and most importantly it is working for him then all is good.

Personally, I sit in the light bat camp and much prefer the bat speed. I've tried heavy bats but again.... for me, light bats just feel right. It has little to do with build or strength unless you are someone like Chris Gayle who can wield a 3lb bat like most of us would something half a pound lighter.

Chad · « **Reply #25 on:** December 11, 2022, 10:25:14 PM »

Quote from: cobweb1510 on December 11, 2022, 08:00:28 PM

It is funny- especially as I've always thought I was being very careful not to give him a bat which was too heavy. When he was younger I bought him a size 4, as he was the correct height for a size 4. I refused to buy him a size 5 until he was tall enough according to the charts. I saw lots of kids being bought bats that were too big/heavy and how much harder it made learning to bat. This has continued through size 6 and Harrow, even whilst all his friends were using bigger bats. The thing is, whilst there are easily findable tables re. suitable bat sizes, there's almost nothing about how much a different sized bat should weigh- although as we've seen in this discussion that appears to be a very open question. It was this question that led me to this forum initially. We'd been recommended the bat maker, but I simply didn't know what kind of questions I should be asking. It sounds like his bats have been pretty heavy all along, although they seem to "pick up" pretty light. I assume that's in the balancing skill by the batmaker. I can't remember exactly why, but Ollies very curmudgeonly batting coach actually commented last year on Ollies bat being nice and light, so he obviously didn't feel it was heavy or restricting him at all.

It seems logical to me that if he's using a Harrow aged 12 that weighs 2-8/9 then his next bat up should be heavier. I'm not sure how much- but even 4oz (100g) doesn't seem like much of a step up in mass for bats being used by a boy of 12 and the same boy at 15! I think what I am coming to recognise is this probably isn't going to be the last bat I buy! I think in my head I had visions of getting this blade rehandled to a long handle when he reaches 6'3"; Now I'm resigned to having to find another �300 further down the line! At least this one might last more than 1 season!

2lb 11oz is definitely more on the heavier side of commonly used bat weights amongst adults - most bats that sell in retail are 2lb 10oz or less. To be fair, a fair number of folks don't weigh their bats, and assume they're using a 2.8-2.9, while in reality they've been using a 2.11 all along. 2lb 11oz is quite heavy for a youngster - normally for their first SH bat, I'd recommend juniors to go for 2lb 5oz - 2lb 9oz at the very max. Thing you have to remember is that SH bats will generally pick up heavier, as they're longer so there's weight further away from the hands.

Many schools of thought - heavier bat means you only have to focus on timing and letting the bat do the work, but lighter bat means more bat speed, etc etc. But my biggest worry would be joint injuries caused by repetitive strain if the bat is too heavy, especially if he's a wristy player, or likes to play ramps and scoops and cross bat shots. 2lb 11oz is certainly heavier than I would recommend someone going into their first adult bat, but as he's used a heavier harrow before, so maybe it will suit. 3oz is quite a large jump in bat weights, especially if you're going up a size too whilst you're at it.

Rez · « **Reply #26 on:** December 11, 2022, 10:50:06 PM »

Quote from: Chad on December 11, 2022, 10:25:14 PM

To be fair, a fair number of folks don't weigh their bats, and assume they're using a 2.8-2.9, while in reality they've been using a 2.11 all along.

This is a good point Chad. Certainly when I was younger nobody weighed their bats or knew what weight they were playing, they just swung it around a bit and if it felt good it felt good.

Even now when it is fairly trivial to weigh a bat accurately, it's probably still something quite niche and reserved for obsessive folk like us who frequent this forum..... although with your collection, weighing them all is probably quite time consuming

SurreySam · « **Reply #27 on:** December 11, 2022, 11:37:51 PM »

On a similar note, it's amazing how much a bats weight can fluctuate throughout the year.

Thamesvalley · « **Reply #28 on:** December 11, 2022, 11:40:59 PM »

What can they fluctuate From and two if you leave them in a well aired room and not near a radiater but room has heating

Rez · « **Reply #29 on:** December 11, 2022, 11:54:45 PM »

I'm probably on the more obsessive end of the spectrum and weigh my bats quite often. Some of them will shift by a full 2oz throughout the year in various conditions.

Author Topic: Is this acceptable? (Read 4631 times)

Jimbo

Re: Is this acceptable?

cobweb1510

Re: Is this acceptable?

alba caerulea

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Kai

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Thamesvalley

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jonny77

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cobweb1510

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Rez

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cobweb1510

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Rez

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Chad

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Rez

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SurreySam

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Thamesvalley

Re: Is this acceptable?

Rez

Re: Is this acceptable?