The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
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ianbuchanan

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2010, 10:07:09 PM »

No debate for me- Pietersen is our best batsman who is currently been out of form for a long while. It will do him and England no good if we drop him in the last test before the ashes....

PM7

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2010, 10:13:44 PM »

Totally valid point Buzz, I havea 6 month old lad and my batting average has dropped this season !
 
I think, after having a chat to a mate - that KP is having a problem being to much of a new age dad - he is spending too much time changing nappies and giving midnight feeds.

He needs to take a leaf out of Rooney's book!!

This may sound slightly ridiculous, but I have an 8 month old, so have some experience of not sleeping and having to go to work and not being 100% committed to my day job...
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AlRidd

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2010, 01:33:41 PM »

I am not a huge KP fan, but it has to be said in recent times he has still been more successful than Cook and I would argue is a better player, all it will take is one big knock like Cook's and the doubts will be removed. It is just a question of confidence at the end of the day.
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RichW

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2010, 01:57:06 PM »

I ask you the question if KP was bowler would he still be in the England team, well in my opinion he certainly wouldn't be he would have been dropped shock he needs to up his game and prove he really wants it. We all agreed we need him for the ashes but there is something lacking with kp and we were all unsure if its his ambition or attitude.

Whats your thoughts ?

I totally disagree with what you have said about if KP was a bowler he wouldn't be dropped, Stuart Broad has put in below average performances on a regular basis since the first test he has played, he is of course a player with imense potential and talent and so occasionally once a series or maybe once every two series he puts in a wonderful performance. This somehow manages to stop his selection every being up for debate despite the fact that he takes his wickets at a very average 35 a piece. He needs to go back to county cricket like Anderson did and learn how to bowl. Although Anderson is very dependant on conditons since his break away from england in swinging conditions he is now deadly. Broad needs to find out exacltly what works for him and test cricket is to hard a place to do that no matter how good you are.

As for KP like many people who have a talent that is far better than even the very good players it as has already been said aits all about whats going round his head. He is totally competitive person I believe the ashes will bring the best out of him as I think to him that is the ultimate and it should relight the desire in him to knuckle down and do the hard yards.
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Buzz

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2012, 02:58:12 PM »

This is sure to spark some debate...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/feb/17/kevin-pietersen-england-delhi-daredevils-ipl

Kevin Pietersen is England's greatest modern batsman – flaws and allKP's record is dizzyingly fine, the last of the high-water-mark 2005 Ashes team still playing in all formats of the game

by Barney Ronay


This week I went to the kind of sporting sub‑event that puts you in mind, rather uneasily, of the old joke about being the type of person who turns up to the opening of an envelope, or the launch of a rubber dinghy, or the unfoiling of a Pot Noodle.

In this case it was the unveiling of a shirt: not just any shirt, but the one Kevin Pietersen will wear for his new IPL franchise, the Delhi Daredevils. The shirt's coming-out was staged at the ICC cricket academy in Dubai and was a spectacle that, it must be said, required a certain amount of politicking to witness. Initially English press were banned from attending. This shirt launch was simply too big, too thickly caked in event-glamour.

Then a twist: English journalists could attend, but they must not ask questions. They may look upon the shirt, but only in the role of penitent mutes, struck dumb by its splendour. And so it was that after a tantalising delay, flanked by a cartel of grinning bigwigs, Pietersen finally appeared decked out in full Daredevils get-up, as ever surprisingly tall and lean and tanned and goofily charismatic.

We'd come not to bury KP, but perhaps to smile a little and to draw arch analogies between his recent travails in 50-over cricket and this knee‑trembling Twenty20 canonisation. But as he ran through his lines, doing really rather well, name-checking the right people, posing for a photo with all four attendant bigwigs clutching at a single corner of the shirt, as though it were some holy healing shroud, it was hard not to soften and feel a little proud of this most peculiar cricketing personage.

This is the thing about Pietersen. You may think you have measure of him, but for all his enduring celebrity-ism he remains both appealing and surprisingly persistent. It is perhaps only when he is finally gone that we may feel he has been slightly underrated, rather than, as many would suggest, the opposite.

Naturally, none of the attendant shirt-launch shenanigans were actually Pietersen's fault. He is simply the product here, retailed aggressively by his time-share owners. Plus, he fits this world so well it is tempting to imagine he harbours ambitions of becoming soon a facsimile of Chris Gayle, the world's most post-modern cricketer, who has basically pared himself down into a hired global six-hitting machine: just dial the 24-hour emergency number and Gayle will emerge from the nearest disco carrying his baseball bat.

But we know Pietersen better than this by now. The fact is, he hasn't disappeared from view, hasn't shied from difficult times in 50-over cricket, but has instead embraced his reinvention as an opening batsman at precisely the moment in his career he seems least equipped for its demands.

Many have remarked on the technical flaw in a defence that sees him present his bat with a dramatic swish from the right, like a matador brandishing his cloak. And there is something epically poignant about Pietersen being humbled by the forward defensive, this telescopicallyassembled uber-athlete with his nylon warrior's gait, baffled by cricket's ancient first position, like Tarzan starving to death because he just can't hold his knife and fork properly.

Some see this as symptomatic of a fatal flaw, a hubristic failure to refine and adapt his kung-fu forward lunge. Some will say he has always had a flawed technique, relying instead on those astronaut's reflexes. But this overlooks his fervent dedication to practice. Frail, ungrooved techniques are for lazier players. Instead Pietersen is simply

at a time when he is suffering chronic uncertainty at the crease, induced by the brutal new world of UDRS with its unblinking pedant's eye for lbw.

It is a system that has on certain pitches made cricket into a game of lbw, turned pads into stumps and cricket into french-cricket, stumps and bails a backdrop to the real G-spot, the batsman's legs.

Pietersen has not yet rebuilt his batting to counter this assault on the shins. Will he be given time? Certainly there is no real pillow of enduring public affection to sustain him through the lean times. Instead, Pietersen is often viewed a bit like a piece of machinery bought in at great expense: when he doesn't work he seems suddenly useless, like a combine harvester with a broken axle. This is despite the fact that his career record is not just fine, but dizzyingly fine. In ODIs Pietersen has the highest batting average of any England player with more than 50 matches. He is England's greatest player yet in Twenty20. And only Ken Barrington and Wally Hammond have played as many Tests and had a higher batting average. Forget for a moment comparing attacks across the ages. Judged solely on his stats, Pietersen is England's greatest batsman of the modern age.

His value lies in intangibles, too. Few other sportsmen have provided such distinctive and memorable physicality: that bravura forearm-extension to meet the clouting cover drive, or the quick step and loft over midwicket he produced on Wednesday night off the bowling of Abdur Rehman.

Then there are the innings: the 158 at The Oval in 2005 will remain his most dizzying extreme, an innings of fearless skunk‑haired dufus-genius. Since then there have been more rhythmic masterpieces – and this is the lovely paradox about Pietersen. He may have been painted as brash and new world‑ish, a twitching future‑phile. But it is his Test match deeds that will endure.

Plus, he has the added lustre of having simply not gone away, the last of the high-water-mark 2005 England team still playing in all formats. For two years now he is supposed to have been on the wane, already engaged in the roadrunner years, that modern sporting phenomenon where from a distance it is clear you've already gone skittering out over the edge of the cliff, held up by nothing more than fame-momentum and celebrity ballast. But Pietersen is dogged as well as explosive, as all great sportsmen are. And beneath the excitingly zippered, multi‑chevroned inanities of his latest act of shirt-shifting, this is still a truly great English cricketer.
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"Bradman didn't used to have any trigger movements or anything like that. He turned batting into a subconscious act" Tony Shillinglaw.

basket case

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2012, 03:53:01 PM »

Pietersen's lack of back foot gameplay means he's nothing more than a decent player. If he'd stayed with us, maybe Kallis, Kirsten etc could've made him the greatest batsman after Bradman!
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shirazi_r

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2012, 08:05:20 PM »

KP just has an incredibly short attention span as of late, seems like his brain is everywhere but where it should be. Perhaps some Ritalin will do him good.
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Riddy

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2012, 08:46:06 AM »

KP averaged 86 for England in tests last year. 1 bad series and people are calling for the chop. disgraceful imo
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steiner

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2012, 09:27:22 AM »

Personally I don't think you can judge Pietersen purely on average - there are also times he has left the team in trouble because 'that's the way I play'

My main issue with him would be the fact that (from an outsider point of view) he doesn't seem well liked by his team mates. You can't help but wonder if this is having an effect on the team as a whole.

It was also noticeable that he did no media during the Pakistan series but as soon as there was IPL tickets to be flogged he's straight up there on the stage.

For me the issue is not KPs form more the fact that he represents KP first and England second no matter how many tattoos he may wear of the 3 lions!

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Riddy

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2012, 09:56:24 PM »

is there still a debate? ;)
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roco

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2012, 09:20:17 AM »

Did anyone spot the difference in kp's technique yesterday I'm sure buzz did
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Buzz

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2012, 09:21:26 AM »

Did anyone spot the difference in kp's technique yesterday I'm sure buzz did
Buzz hasn't watched any of it, but I would hazard a guess that he used his bat and actually hit the ball and stayed stiller at the crease...
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"Bradman didn't used to have any trigger movements or anything like that. He turned batting into a subconscious act" Tony Shillinglaw.

mdl_1979

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2012, 09:22:24 AM »

He was taking guard outside leg stump against the spinners which meant his pad wasn't getting in the way.  Seemed to work quite nicely for him.
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roco

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2012, 09:22:56 AM »

He stopped using a trigger and was not quite still but as still as kp is going to be haha

Looked infinitely better to me
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The first cricket box was used in 1874.  The first cricket helmet was introduced in 1974. So, it took 100 years for men to twig that their brains were also worth protecting.

Dan W

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Re: The Big Kevin Pietersen Debate
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2012, 09:23:46 AM »

Talk about perfect conditions for a KP good innings. Couldn't be less to play for and the guy knocks out 2 centuries. Typical!
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