Bat tech talk with norbs
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norbs

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Bat tech talk with norbs
« on: September 15, 2010, 08:09:15 PM »

Good Evening

Welcome to this evening Bat tech talk please ask away!!!!!

peplow

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2010, 08:10:20 PM »

Do you agree with/promote the use of counter balancing with tape on top of handle, not particularly techie but interested don your views!
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thebd11

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2010, 08:11:03 PM »

I like to come in at the end of the innings and give the total a good boost, but I generally play straight. However, as I play a good standard the wickets are covered. I was thinking of getting 2 custom made bats, one high middle and one low, any advice on this ?
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norbs

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2010, 08:24:15 PM »

Do you agree with/promote the use of counter balancing with tape on top of handle, not particularly techie but interested don your views!

Good evening Peplow and congratulations on the first question
I will make the question techie for you  :o

Counter balance with normal tape will take some doing but if you feel the bat is heavy it is an option. You'd have to and an 1oz or 2oz to make a difference

Which leads me onto Cricket bat pickup. Basically pickup is how the bat feels relative to its actual weight on the backlift of the cricket bat swing.  Think of a lump hammer with its head flat on the ground and the handle sticking up in the air.  Now imagine yourself wielding it like a cricket bat it would feel heavy right?  Now the same hammer same length etc but raise the hammer head up the handle towards where you’re griping it…. same hammer same weight but the back lift is lighter?  Now add loads of tape to the top of the handle of the hammer and hey presto ligther. That in a nutshell is pickup, it’s relative to the position of the middle [most wood] on a cricket bat

But you promised me you'd make it techie!!!!!  >:(

Pick up of a Cricket bat and adding a grip or weights to the handle

Ok you’ve added a grip or some sort of weight to the handle because the cricket bat you have bought picks up like a railway sleeper.  The cricket bat feels better with regards to picking up but all of a sudden you’re getting bat vibration from the where the middle was.

<clear throat> The techie bit

The point at which you get the least vibration from the bat is called the coefficient of percussion [COP].

Hmmmm, so by adding weight, e.g. an extra grip, you've moved the centre of mass or the balance point of the cricket bat towards the handle and this moves the COP [the point of least vibration].  That is because the coefficent of percussion is related to the total mass of the cricket bat, the balance point and the moment of inertia…..

So what the fudge does that mean?  ???

The cricket bat picks up better but all of sudden the middle feels like it has shifted by about an inch all because of the extra weight at the handle end!

Thanks you, paypal is accepted on all questions answered

Colesy

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2010, 08:24:23 PM »

which gives better results, high spine and smaller edges or low spine and bigger edges?
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Opener

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2010, 08:32:43 PM »

I don't understand how bigger edges / profile can add to performance of a bat. Isn't the density or mass the defining factor rather than the volume?
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norbs

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2010, 08:34:50 PM »

I like to come in at the end of the innings and give the total a good boost, but I generally play straight. However, as I play a good standard the wickets are covered. I was thinking of getting 2 custom made bats, one high middle and one low, any advice on this ?

Not very techie again but I will eloborate for whilst explaining the difference between a high middle and a low middle.  You as the batsman need to be comfortable and confident with both

The Higher Middle

This depends sometimes on where you bat, that is, in the batting order and the type of bowler you are facing!  If the bowlers you face, more often then not, are pitching it up [not in the sense that it is a fuller deliver but a short pitch ball that bounces high] you'll find yourself playing off the back foot so a higher middle will suit you. Why? because you'll be hitting the ball higher up the bat.  A higher middle will make the bat feel lighter and you will be reacting quicker and the swing the bat faster.  Also if you are player that like's to cut, play a hook shot etc this is the middle for you.


The Low Middle [Easy Rider Middle]

I like to think if you are a front player and hitting the ball where it is pitched, a low middle will suit you.  So if I’m saying that then it must also be if you play on pitches with little bounce. The low middle may make the bat feel heavier.  It is more of agressive players bat and a player that drives the ball and suits a lower order batsmen.  It provides club like capabilites because of the low middle and drags you through your swing because of momentum and therefore has a fast swing speed. SAF put a low, easy rider, middle on the Audax!!!

The Low Toe Theory  :o

Ummm your on a merri-go-round and you stand at the end then your weight is propelled around faster [greater momentum] then if you stand in the middle. By moving the weight of the bat further down it has greater momentum then if it is was distributed around the blade….

norbs

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2010, 08:47:42 PM »

which gives better results, high spine and smaller edges or low spine and bigger edges?

Ola' colesy

This is a very difficult question to answer.  As a smaller edge allow more mass in the back of the bat then a larger edge which in generally concaved and has a higher.

It is all about wood mass in general a bat with a larger edge and a bat with a smaller edge that has the same starting weight cleft would perform the same.  The smaller edge may have a longer middle and larger edge may have a wider middle but it all depends on the bat profile



Colesy

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2010, 08:54:14 PM »

Ola' colesy

This is a very difficult question to answer.  As a smaller edge allow more mass in the back of the bat then a larger edge which in generally concaved and has a higher.

It is all about wood mass in general a bat with a larger edge and a bat with a smaller edge that has the same starting weight cleft would perform the same.  The smaller edge may have a longer middle and larger edge may have a wider middle but it all depends on the bat profile





I see, so if I bought a more traditional bat like a M&H Solution it would have a longer middle than an Asian bat like a SS which would have a wider middle?
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peplow

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2010, 08:57:43 PM »

Ahhh so have you found an optimum yet, or is it different in every cleft?
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norbs

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2010, 09:10:14 PM »

I don't understand how bigger edges / profile can add to performance of a bat. Isn't the density or mass the defining factor rather than the volume?

There is swing weight, bat mass, density in the hitting area. It all gets a bit techie… but here goes for a couple of routes for you!!!!


Volume is related to density lets look at grains for an example on performance to answer this question

Older trees are more stable but not as strong as middle-aged trees. Younger trees move more and are not ready to use. Tight grain is what some people prefer, but the grain can be too tight because it will start to lose strength at some point.

As trees grow in one season, they grow faster from spring through summer and more slowly from fall through winter. That is what we see in tree rings. Tighter grain means less space in fast-growing fibre. This space in looser grain is where the moisture stays, which is why tighter grain is more stable than looser grain. Density is also heavier in tighter grain. The increased density means that the wood is stronger. Therefore makes a bat come to life but die’s earlier….

Heartwood is just wood that has lost its sap as it moves out through growth therefore brittle it is also denser….

Ok looking at it on density perspective then tighter grains will make for stiffers blade on the outset but it would mean faults develop quickly… It also means, as you probably know, more weight for the same given volume…

Performace of bats is related to a number of things and wood mass in the hitting area is one of them.


Ok cricket bat performance

There are a few ways of looking at why a cricket bat performs and a few schools of thought all correct in there own way.

Let start with Newtons Law!

As you probably know from phyiscs for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, also energy cannot be created or destroyed it can be transfered or transformed converted from one form to another.

The upshot is though, as you can all probably guess, is to transfer as much of the energy you are exerting to swing the bat to the ball and conserve as much of the energy of the bowled ball speed. A real life example is hotspot. We’ve all seen hotspot that is energy loss due to heat from the cricket ball hitting the cricket bat

So what are the  performance options!

There is the option of having increased stiffness, a bat that doesn’t absorb the energy of bowled ball. So for example the Bowler transfers his energy to the ball and bat transfers it back [hopefully] If the cricket bat vibrates as we know it does on impact it absorbs some of the energy. Therefore the less vibration of the bat the less energy absorbtion and the greater the energy transfer.

There is the option of having an elastic bat. A bat that has the ability to hold the ball in the hitting area so the bat vibrates far enough through a cycle so it acts as a trampoline. Basically vibrations are wave’s in simple terms if the ball can be held at the point of impact for the time it takes the wave to go down on impact and then back up again. There is effecitivly a rebound effect.

Imagine yourself on a see-saw you go and the guy at the other end is slightly heavier then you get him up but when he comes downs you ping off the seat.

Believe it or not cricket bat handles make a difference

Then there is the player holding the bat and what he is comfortable with and what makes him confident.

norbs

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2010, 09:13:34 PM »

I see, so if I bought a more traditional bat like a M&H Solution it would have a longer middle than an Asian bat like a SS which would have a wider middle?

Colesy there is no theoretical answer to this question they may both perform the same but looking at in terms of wood distribution then yes but like I said that answer is not a definitive answer
« Last Edit: September 15, 2010, 09:17:45 PM by norbs »
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norbs

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2010, 09:16:20 PM »

Ahhh so have you found an optimum yet, or is it different in every cleft?

Generally I balance to same position but on a bat by bat basis

niceonechoppy

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2010, 09:20:14 PM »

Norbs, what is the difference between a whippy and stiff handle? Does either effect performnce of a cleft? Is there any advantages of one compared to the other?
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Colesy

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Re: Bat tech talk with norbs
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2010, 09:30:25 PM »

Is it possible to create a sweet-spot on a bat where there is not the most wood.

Say you have a standard bat with a low middle, M&H Solution shape, is it possible to create a bat with the same shape but the middle higher up ala Harlequin?

If that makes sense.

I'll think of more questions!!
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