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Buzz

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South Africa vs India
« on: December 15, 2010, 10:21:33 AM »

The series between the two top ranked teams is about to take place in SA - it should be a cracker. This is the review on Cricinfo - which I think is very accurate... No mention of Kallis in this though, I think the key battles will be Stein vs Sehwag (I would pay serious money to watch this) and Zaheer vs Smith.

for the record, I think the Saffa's may just shade it as their fielding and catching is traditionally better than the Indians and in a series as close as this the small things will make the difference

Top-of-table clash too tight to call
Sidharth Monga in Centurion

December 14, 2010

It's there in the rarefied air of the Highveld. It's on the radio, it's being talked about in pubs even during a Manchester United-Arsenal game, it's on the streets, it will soon be seen from the grass banks. The No. 1 Test side in the world is here for a three-Test series, no longer the miserable tourists of the past, still with history against them. South Africa are ready, they are going to spice the pitches up a bit, they are going to try and make a move towards the ranking that was theirs before India took it away. It is a series that could define both the teams, but with two days to go the prudent thing to do is to sit on the fence and not call any favourites, as the following breakdown shows.

Top orders
Virender Sehwag and Gautam Gambhir are arguably the best opening combination going around today, but they haven't been tested in seamer-friendly conditions consistently by bowlers of the calibre of Dale Steyn and Morne Morkel. Still it would need a very good combination to hold an edge over Sehwag and Gambhir. Graeme Smith is as tough as they come, and Alviro Petersen scored a century on debut against India. However, if Sehwag and Gambhir have to face a test of conditions, Zaheer Khan holds a mental edge over Smith. As it often happens, and as it might happen for the series overall, this one might just come down to Sehwag.

Following the openers we have one of the best Nos 3 ever, and another who is in the form of his life. Rahul Dravid is usually just the man for overcast and seamer-friendly conditions, but he last faced such a test in Australia in 2007-08. Since then he has had dips in form, he has been hit by a bouncer that made him miss a Test for only the second time in his career, and there have been calls for younger blood. That there was no question about his selection is testimony to his value to the team, and he is coming off a 191 against New Zealand. Hashim Amla is the most Indian of batsmen you will get to see out of India, and he has serenely and surely been scoring runs by the truckloads. Since he came to India earlier this year, he has averaged 88 in Tests and 76 in ODIs. It is tough to argue against such a No. 3.

Between awe and toughness, reputation and form, it is difficult to stick a neck out here.

Middle orders The Nos 4 of the two teams are absolute legends and have been around forever. In the last series, both of them scored centuries, and nothing much is expected to change there. Sachin Tendulkar is having one of his best years with the bat, Jacques Kallis is not out of form either. Has he ever been? Tendulkar knows the conditions as well as any batsman not South African. You wouldn't bet against Kallis either, who has already scored four centuries this year, and can also bowl pretty mean bouncers and outswingers if needed.

VVS Laxman at No. 5 carries bundles of class and a first-class degree in crisis management with him, AB de Villiers the confidence from having just scored the highest individual score for a South African. However, like Dravid, Laxman hasn't put his fire-fighting skills to test on spicy pitches under overcast skies for a long time. Does that make de Villiers more reliable? Still hard to tell.

Ashwell Prince and Suresh Raina are relative weak links, but Prince's experience and knowledge of home conditions edge out Raina. South Africa might hold a slight edge here, but Tendulkar and Laxman are not batsmen to be written off.

Wicketkeepers
Mark Boucher is more likely to score important lower-order runs than MS Dhoni, if only because the conditions suit his game better. Behind the stumps, there isn't much between them. If Dhoni is flashy with stumpings, he has been a touch slow going for the catches to his right. South Africa hold a slight advantage here, but in the final equation it might not count for a lot.

Spinners
India hold an edge here, but the conditions might negate the spinners as attacking options. Harbhajan, though, will love the bounce on offer after a long season on slow Indian tracks. Don't forget what Lord Harris did to India in the deciding Test on the last tour.

Fast bowlers
Tight. Very tight. You would want to back South Africa with Steyn and Morkel arguably being the most dangerous opening bowling combination. It's the third seamer's slot where India level the scales. Zaheer, Ishant Sharma and Sreesanth are all aggressive bowlers, all three capable of utilising helpful conditions. There is a rider, though. Except for Zaheer, you are never quite sure what you will get from the Indian seamers. Ishant and Sreesanth can be very good on their days, but on an off day they can be very bad. With Steyn and Morkel, you are assured of a degree of control.

Zaheer's fitness remains dodgy. He did bowl in the nets today, making the Indian camp feel better, but they were still not completely certain that Zaheer will make it for the first Test. If he doesn't, South Africa will have a clear advantage.

Slip catching
In seaming conditions, there will be quite a few coming the slippers way. If there is such a thing called catching form, Dravid hasn't been in it. He also injured his finger while dropping one against New Zealand, and is not even sure if he will be standing in the slips. Tendulkar has been out of slips for some time now, with an injured finger, and Laxman's back doesn't let him stay there for long durations. Expect to see a lot of Sehwag and Raina there.

South Africa are not sure of Smith's presence there he recently fractured a finger but Kallis and de Villiers provide their cordon a more stable look.

Final equation
On paper, nothing gives. It could come down to what kind of mental state the Indian batsmen are in. Collectively and individually, South Africa is the only country where they have failed to compete consistently. Tendulkar's average falls from 57 overall to 40 in South Africa, Dravid's from 53 to 34, Sehwag's from 55 to 26, and Laxman's from 48 to 41. Consequently, just one win in 12 attempts. They all know they need to correct it, but how much does that play on their minds? It might not matter much if India get off to a good start, but history which says something about India's dislike for the conditions here gives South Africa the slight advantage.

Equally South Africa have a relatively modern history to correct after having failed to close out two Tests against England last season. They have not won either of their last two home series, both against top opposition. That just makes their advantage even slighter. If this is not dead even, it is the closest thing to it.
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Jeet

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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2010, 11:32:20 AM »

Series being billed as Steyn & Morkel vs Sehwag is quite fitting. The 3 match winners from both sides.

If Zaheer is injured, then India has major problems. As mentioned above Zaheer is all over Graeme Smith. In my mind if you keep Smith quiet, you can get on top off SA.

India needs to ditch Raina for Pujara. Raina will be bombarded with bumpers and he can't handle them.

I was surprised SA didn't recall Jacques Rudolph in place of Alviro Petersen, he's had a poor run recently.

I don't agree that India has the better spinner either. Harbhajan is poor away from India and in recent times forgotten how to spin the ball. I would've loved to see R Ashwin take Harbhajan's place.

Tight series that could go either way. 2-1 SA
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Johng

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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2010, 11:35:34 AM »

SA to win as India do not travel well.
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Buzz

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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2010, 11:40:42 AM »

Series being billed as Steyn & Morkel vs Sehwag is quite fitting. The 3 match winners from both sides.

If Zaheer is injured, then India has major problems. As mentioned above Zaheer is all over Graeme Smith. In my mind if you keep Smith quiet, you can get on top off SA.

India needs to ditch Raina for Pujara. Raina will be bombarded with bumpers and he can't handle them.

I was surprised SA didn't recall Jacques Rudolph in place of Alviro Petersen, he's had a poor run recently.

I don't agree that India has the better spinner either. Harbhajan is poor away from India and in recent times forgotten how to spin the ball. I would've loved to see R Ashwin take Harbhajan's place.

Tight series that could go either way. 2-1 SA
Jeet - i posted this mainly topic mainly for you!! I think your assessment of Harbhajan is harsh - but then you have seen more of him than me. The Saffas will stick with Pietersen as they see something in him.
For me AB De Villiers is now SA's best bat - (which is saying something given they have Amla, Kallis and Smith) so if he has a big series it will be huge for them.

What about Dravid - will this be his last tour or will he finish in England - where he started?
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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2010, 11:50:52 AM »

Jeet - i posted this mainly topic mainly for you!! I think your assessment of Harbhajan is harsh - but then you have seen more of him than me. The Saffas will stick with Pietersen as they see something in him.
For me AB De Villiers is now SA's best bat - (which is saying something given they have Amla, Kallis and Smith) so if he has a big series it will be huge for them.

What about Dravid - will this be his last tour or will he finish in England - where he started?
As far as I'm know, Dravid, Laxman and Sachin want series victories in SA and Oz before retiring.

India has an insane schedule for next year WC, tour of WI, tour of Eng and tour of Oz, so it's possible that the old guard could fazed out. Dravid is most under threat, he's been slack vs the big teams in recent times.

I've never really been a Harbhajan fan. Attitude, behaviour  and ego make it difficult to like him. He's stuck in the Ganguly mentality, get under the skin of the opposition. Coupled with him being labelled as 'India's best off spinner', which is a joke. Prasanna was vastly superior!
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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2010, 12:40:05 PM »

I see your point about getting smith cheaply helping out, but with Amla, Kallis and AB (not to mention Pieterson who is no mug with that bat) i think they have possibly the best top order in world cricket right now (very closely followed by India).
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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2010, 01:00:10 PM »

I see your point about getting smith cheaply helping out, but with Amla, Kallis and AB (not to mention Pieterson who is no mug with that bat) i think they have possibly the best top order in world cricket right now (very closely followed by India).
I read somewhere that other than Kallis and Boucher, the rest average considerably less at home. AB averages something like 36 compared to his career average of 45+.

If stats should be believed, it will come down to the bowlers, which would make a great series.
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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2010, 01:31:36 PM »

If it does come down to the bowlers and Zaheer doesnt play id say SA are probably favourites.
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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2010, 02:46:39 PM »

Hope the stadiums wont be empty like last time! Makes such a difference to the atmosphere and the players
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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2010, 05:22:34 PM »

I read somewhere that other than Kallis and Boucher, the rest average considerably less at home. AB averages something like 36 compared to his career average of 45+.

If stats should be believed, it will come down to the bowlers, which would make a great series.


Bolderdash Jeet if your batsman fail India fail your only real class is Zaheer.

There great potential in the others but they have been on the circuit a while now and have not been consistent.

India are on the wain i suspect South Africa to win the series comfortably if there bowlers have success against your top 5 that the key battle for me...

South Africa will score runs against your attack and i struggle to see were 20 wickets are coming from
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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2010, 05:26:32 PM »

India are in a deep hole with Zaheer all but ruled out. I can't understand why neither Munaf or RP Singh are in squad. Jaidev Unadkat or Umesh Yadav will certainly debut. I'd go with Unadkat as he's a left armer
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Jeet

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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2010, 05:29:20 PM »


Bolderdash Jeet if your batsman fail India fail your only real class is Zaheer.

Barring SA, who have Steyn and Morkel, no other country has two world class seamers. Maybe Pakistan, but Asif and Amir are banned.
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procricket

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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2010, 05:34:02 PM »

I think we have been here before i would take England Attack over India all day every day but i going to leave this SA v India which should be a good series.

The Little Master v The blaster
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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2010, 05:40:43 PM »

The Little Master v The blaster
I'm looking forward to Sehwag vs Steyn. Could be brilliant
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Re: South Africa vs India
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2010, 05:43:58 PM »

as i have said mate i think there only one contest your batting v there bowling could be explosive and very good tv
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