Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
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TheBoyLegend

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #90 on: January 06, 2011, 11:16:16 AM »

This is something I have always questioned about GM is how they can charge so much for what is effectivley a "Machined Bat" I can understand paying a premium to the likes of the guys on here for a hand crafted piece of workmanship. But at the rate in which GM can churn out a computer aided creation and the amount they sell (covering one would think the initial outlay of the machines) it beggars belief really.

also for English skilled labour for something that is bespoke (which all handcrafted bats should be considered as) £80 an hour incl Vat is actually a very good rate.

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Buzz

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #91 on: January 06, 2011, 11:17:53 AM »

Two things - I kind of estimated the £80 per hour, so please don't use this as gospel

secondly you have to pay for the machines that make the bats somehow...!
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mdl_1979

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #92 on: January 06, 2011, 11:21:03 AM »

It's also not a case of whacking a cleft onto the machine, and out pops a bat.  The machine gives the basic shape, but the bats are hand finished.
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procricket

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #93 on: January 06, 2011, 11:23:25 AM »

My point comes here

Ayrtek helmets

Best on the market with evidence to back it up science and weight you pay for what you get the best

Remfry

Best on the market NO....I have them yes because i followed a trend but to be honest you can get the same protection but not at that weight and size(bulkiness)


Bats

There is no governance i find in terms of price as the other products are graded on quality and bar the bespoke stuff like Remfry and such all the softs and helmets are prices all similar whilst the bat pricing seems so far and wide and it feels like you do not quite get what you paid for.....(please note this is not aimed at one individual company but the market in general)
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TheBoyLegend

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #94 on: January 06, 2011, 11:25:10 AM »

I only took it as an estimate Buzz Definately wont be holding you to it!!

I do say in my post that the initial outlay one would have thought would have been covered resonably quickly (usually part of the business plan to purchase large pieces of kit) and seeing as GM have had this process of bat making in place for a while now you'd have thought it would have shown in the prices being charged?
Bear in mind that these machines are put in to ultimately save labour and other overheads.
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TheBoyLegend

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #95 on: January 06, 2011, 11:26:55 AM »

It's also not a case of whacking a cleft onto the machine, and out pops a bat.  The machine gives the basic shape, but the bats are hand finished.

Again I'm not aluding to that either but the skill level and time costs involved are hugely less than a fully hand made bat, thats the idea of having a semi automated process
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roco

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #96 on: January 06, 2011, 11:27:50 AM »

Alot of people will machine prep their bats very very few completely hande make from start to finish as the time it takes they will not make much profit plus the gm bats are all still hand finished so still some craftsmanship in them
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seedy

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #97 on: January 06, 2011, 11:28:38 AM »

I have always rated the smaller brands and foreign bats as you are getting the same product - a willow bat. Grade 1 generally I go for.

I am not paying an extra £200 to line kp or some other pros pockets or pay the marketing costs.

However, some people will use what they see on the tv, it's the same in many sports.

People spend £60 on Phil Taylor darts because of his endorsement, there no better than 95% tungsten darts that sell for £10.

It's all marketing and advertising an fashionable trends.
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procricket

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #98 on: January 06, 2011, 11:31:27 AM »

of course most are machine made i wonder how at the Chalet they produce so many bats a year surely not all by hand
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Buzz

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #99 on: January 06, 2011, 11:32:52 AM »

I would be very interested to know if the chalet have any connections with an Indian manufacturer, such as BAS for example.
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TheBoyLegend

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #100 on: January 06, 2011, 11:33:24 AM »

Alot of people will machine prep their bats very very few completely hande make from start to finish as the time it takes they will not make much profit plus the gm bats are all still hand finished so still some craftsmanship in them


Again I'm not disputing this either However Computer aided machine manufacture is very diferent to the machines used in the small workshops around the country.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11824293


You would be hard pressed to find these machines at SAF or H4L
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procricket

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #101 on: January 06, 2011, 11:34:50 AM »

well work out how many bats come out of the chalet not just newbery bloody hell if they do not use a machine to prep they must have 100 of batmakers there.

I think it naive to think most bats are all handmade.....


There will not be many totally handmade bats around

« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 11:37:20 AM by procricket »
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Simmy

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #102 on: January 06, 2011, 11:38:06 AM »

the chalet have cnc machines

hence why a tim keeleys bats are expensive . as he wont make alot of the bats him self from scratch. thats y when he does u pay for the privalage
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tim2000s

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #103 on: January 06, 2011, 11:39:20 AM »

I only took it as an estimate Buzz Definately wont be holding you to it!!

I do say in my post that the initial outlay one would have thought would have been covered resonably quickly (usually part of the business plan to purchase large pieces of kit) and seeing as GM have had this process of bat making in place for a while now you'd have thought it would have shown in the prices being charged?
Bear in mind that these machines are put in to ultimately save labour and other overheads.
Bearing in mind that you generally aren't in business to make a loss, and the Grays, who are by all accounts a reasonably large batmaker, only make a profit of £780,000 across all their sporting brands, then you start to see why the prices are where they are.

It's simply not a terribly profitable industry, and even with the CNC machining, you have a very large capital outlay and not a large profit margin. The business plan on those machines that GM use will see the capital outlay recovered over 5-10 years and although it will reduce labour overheads, it still hits the bottom line somehow. Any large manufacturer (Newb, Hunts, GM, GN) will be doing some level of machine based preparation.

So where does this leave us? Well, it seems that the reality is, as Dave says, that price doesn't guarantee you quality, but equally, neither does brand. Also that direct sales reduces purchase price, but as AndySAF has discovered, managing the business on your own with the publicity that has been endowed from things such as AOC testing requires you to grow your team to account for it, and that also comes at some form of cost.

Ultimately batmaking is a business that sells a product and as with all manufacturing industries, unless that product makes a profit, there is little point in continuing.
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TheBoyLegend

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Re: Can i have all the prices of the forum sponsors here in one topic...
« Reply #104 on: January 06, 2011, 11:49:01 AM »

well work out how many bats come out of the chalet not just newbery bloody hell if they do not use a machine to prep they must have 100 of batmakers there.

I think it naive to think most bats are all handmade.....


There will not be many totally handmade bats around
Mate seriously I'm not being niave I'm just saying that GM take out the majority of the shaping out of the "Hands" of their labour force thus reducing the time it takes for them to make the bats after all it is the "By hand" portion of the manufacture that takes the most amount of time/labour.

So by having something made on a smaller scale where the majority of the shaping work is done in the traditional way we as a consumer pay a premium (and I for one am happy with that)

All I was getting at was that it had crossed my mind that GM "could have" been passing this onto the consumer in much the same way that having bats in india reduces the cost of a finished bat (sometimes) :-)

Now back of too playing with my trains and vroom vrooms while eating my gob stoppers!! (bit sad at 29 eh)
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