Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => World Cricket => India => Topic started by: kouservice on February 18, 2013, 02:15:33 PM
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The question always comes across every Indian cricket fan .
This was a analysis of Michael holding of why Indian bowlers are not fast enough,
" There is nothing wrong with their technique. If you don’t take care of what you are eating, then you are bound to lose your strength.”
Also there are few crictics who say that Indians dont have meat in their diet, so they dont get the proper nutrients.
Just to point out that the Australian , peter siddle is a vegetarian and the list goes on if you consider fitness.
My view, Its about diet and also will to bowl fast. Its not necessary to eat meat, but we need to substitute it with supplements and that is where we lack. I have known a lot of sports persons in india, they dont care about their nutrition needs and boost of eating anything and still healthy :) .
So what are your Views on this issue.
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First, you need the ability to bowl fast - you are quick or you aren't.
Second, you need to be interested in bowling fast - ie, interested in cricket, though on the sub continent I'd tend to expect this to be a given.
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it always seems strange to me that Pakistan has a heritage of fast bowling and India doesn't.
Going to be harder now as who wants to be a fast bowler in the IPL and get smashed all over the park on dead tracks.
actually tracks with life in them is a big issue...
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The lack of pace bowlers there is just down to the conditions more than anything. There just is no reward out there
for bowling express pace and so you might as well use subtle changes of pace and seam movement to get the reward
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I think in India there is no incentive to be a fast bowler, batsman get paid a lot more and thats what indians see cricket as, a means with which to escape whatever cycle of poverty they are in , Many indians have had to live viciously hard lives and this gives them probably one of the best work ethics to succeed in the world, but they dont work towards the correct stuff, they have a lack of opportunities and a lack of a structured coaching infrastructure, the conditions dont help either, favouring spin and swing and going against express pace. and bearing with a comment made in the op actually indian bowling actions leak a lot of pace and are more geared towards acccuracy and swing than pace. Indians I think are also genetically weaker as it is a trend I have seen among their athletes, and between indians and people of caucasian and negro backgrounds who do similiar exercise
Pakistan develop so many fast bowlers due to the legacy of the likes of shoaib akhtar , tendulkar serves this purpose for india
One thing I work for is to disprove the myth that Indians cant be fast bowlers, I want to smash that myth up , I'm going to be the first indian over 100 mph.
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http://www.cricketaakash.com/blog/?p=742 (http://www.cricketaakash.com/blog/?p=742)
this just about sums it up :(
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Need a lot of motivation and backing from the selectors, captain and coaching staff. With the amount of home games India plays, its just slog like a donkey for fast bowlers. By the time they go overseas their moral and confidence is down. In favouring conditions during overseas series, when the fast bowlers get wickets they want to bowl on, they overwork themselves (bowling outside their strength areas) just try and generate pace to impress the selectors.
Not sure if the selection committee has ever had a decent fast bowler in the committee.
Think now is not too late for the cricketing body to rethink their game plan - we don't even have batsmen who can bat 2 days to save a test. (Now we realize the value of Dravid and VVS).
The more relevant question would have been "Why can't India produce world class bowlers?"
Even the spin bowlers are shameful. Eng spinners could take wickets in Tests in India, but not Indian bowlers.
Hope India does not get down to the stage where they have 5 specialist batsmen and 5 batting all rounders - we could see 3 innings ins a test match.
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I think in India there is no incentive to be a fast bowler, batsman get paid a lot more and thats what indians see cricket as, a means with which to escape whatever cycle of poverty they are in , Many indians have had to live viciously hard lives and this gives them probably one of the best work ethics to succeed in the world, but they dont work towards the correct stuff, they have a lack of opportunities and a lack of a structured coaching infrastructure, the conditions dont help either, favouring spin and swing and going against express pace. and bearing with a comment made in the op actually indian bowling actions leak a lot of pace and are more geared towards acccuracy and swing than pace. Indians I think are also genetically weaker as it is a trend I have seen among their athletes, and between indians and people of caucasian and negro backgrounds who do similiar exercise
Pakistan develop so many fast bowlers due to the legacy of the likes of shoaib akhtar , tendulkar serves this purpose for india
One thing I work for is to disprove the myth that Indians cant be fast bowlers, I want to smash that myth up , I'm going to be the first indian over 100 mph.
Do you think Pakistan has better economic condition. I think there far more in economic turbulence, so the issue of condition and economic stability is out of question.
For how many years we will only say Tendulkar, kumble ...etc We can count on fingers.
Come on I would love to see an Indian smash that myth.....
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The lack of pace bowlers there is just down to the conditions more than anything. There just is no reward out there
for bowling express pace and so you might as well use subtle changes of pace and seam movement to get the reward
But that is the case in International cricket, bowling is always considered second. Did you forget the recent match where Ajmal (vs India) took 5 wickets in a one day but MOM was a batsman. How many times have you seen a bowler MOM, very few times.
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it always seems strange to me that Pakistan has a heritage of fast bowling and India doesn't.
Going to be harder now as who wants to be a fast bowler in the IPL and get smashed all over the park on dead tracks.
actually tracks with life in them is a big issue...
I would partially agree with you that we need good tracks that can help fast bowlers, but again the same question remains. Do pakistan have these bouncy tracks , NO. Still they produce fast bowlers. I can further say that we can take it to our advantage, the pitch dosent help so we need to do extra...
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You might want to look at these two pages. They seem to contradict our argument...
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/253774.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/253774.html) -from 2006
http://www.itsonlycricket.com/cricket/answers/question.php?qid=630 (http://www.itsonlycricket.com/cricket/answers/question.php?qid=630) - from 2010
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You might want to look at these two pages. They seem to contradict our argument...
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/253774.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/253774.html[/url]) -from 2006
[url]http://www.itsonlycricket.com/cricket/answers/question.php?qid=630[/url] ([url]http://www.itsonlycricket.com/cricket/answers/question.php?qid=630[/url]) - from 2010
Great :)... I never new of these statistics. Nice piece of information.
But still if you see the Onedays, most of them are Batsman.
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All that goes to show is that the less important form of the game, batsmen have more impact than bowlers, which from what I've watched anecdotally, doesn't surprise me.
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All that goes to show is that the less important form of the game, batsmen have more impact than bowlers, which from what I've watched anecdotally, doesn't surprise me.
True...
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Back in the day when Mohammed Sami was playing , Waqar Younis or Ramiz Raja was commentating on the reason why he was quick . The tape ball or tennis ball cricket prevalent in Pakistan needs a quick arm action to gather any pace and this quicker arm action when using a cricket ball translates to even more speed . Furthermore there was a similar explanation to how Malinga's action evolved on cricinfo . He used to play tennis ball cricket by the beach and learned over time that a sideways slingy release was more useful to generate pace against the breeze from the sea than the classical release . He was also an excellent swimmer infact the best in his village which aided him to develop strong musculature suitable to cope with his slingy and potentially injury causing action.
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How come he has retired from tests then (malinga)?
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How come he has retired from tests then (malinga)?
Save the body I believe.
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/467602.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/467602.html)
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Indians I think are also genetically weaker .........................
Disagreed - Punjabis and Pakistanis have same gene pool Sir. Diet can be one thing as we being Vegan/ Vegetarian by religion.
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Pitches has been briefly covered but look at the Indian 1st class cricket stats for triple
Hundreds. There was 2 in one day!!!
My friend text me and I couldn't believe it.
Who would want to be a fast bowler on those pitches?
Batsman get the large pool of aspiring crickets, then what would an Indian child
Rather be? Spin bowler or pace?
Is height an issue? The Indians aren't the tallest of chaps
are they?
Would be interesting
If you asked 500 Indian children how many would be a) a batsman b) a spinner c) a bowler
Then did the same over here, or Oz or SA.
Jimmy is praised in UK, Steyn in South Africa. Not many pace idols from India
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Disagreed - Punjabis and Pakistanis have same gene pool Sir. Diet can be one thing as we being Vegan/ Vegetarian by religion.
Totally agree with you Jagminder. If India want to produce fast bowlers they ought to be scouting in Punjab.
Jai Punjabia de.
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Back in the day when Mohammed Sami was playing , Waqar Younis or Ramiz Raja was commentating on the reason why he was quick . The tape ball or tennis ball cricket prevalent in Pakistan needs a quick arm action to gather any pace and this quicker arm action when using a cricket ball translates to even more speed . Furthermore there was a similar explanation to how Malinga's action evolved on cricinfo . He used to play tennis ball cricket by the beach and learned over time that a sideways slingy release was more useful to generate pace against the breeze from the sea than the classical release . He was also an excellent swimmer infact the best in his village which aided him to develop strong musculature suitable to cope with his slingy and potentially injury causing action.
Then what you would say about the Australians and SouthAfricans ?? They dont use tape ball, but still the quickest..
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Totally agree with you Jagminder. If India want to produce fast bowlers they ought to be scouting in Punjab.
Jai Punjabia de.
Its not about scouting in a specific region, we need proper guidance on nutrition,fitness and some motivation to ball fast. Its a misconception that vegetarians dont get all the nutrients...
When I was a kid, I used to always hear stories of Gavaskar palying a drive, vishwanth late cut, Azaruddin flick........ but never heard of a bowler bowling a leg cutter, reverse swing....- Most of the times I heard stories of the fearsome 5 of the WI.
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Then what you would say about the Australians and SouthAfricans ?? They dont use tape ball, but still the quickest..
conditions in sa and australia are suited towards fast bowlers so it is rewardin bowlin fast on pitches over there
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That's why England will never consistently produce world class spin bowlers. We are fortunate in having Swann and Panesar but I don't see a great queue behind them. The conditions are just not conducive to the spinning ball so we have had to rely on our spinners being accurate and changing pace to get wickets. Things are changing in regards to our young spinners getting more exposure to subcontinental conditions and hopefully we will see more talent come through.
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I would like to put forward another angle and this is the culture of India and the way the cricketers are treated and worshiped like no other country. The biggest problem with Indian cricketers is that they simple do not have the time to practice and properly develop as cricketers..as firstly they play too much cricket (i think the most ODI's anyway) plus many of the national cricketers have to play for there government teams like Air India, Indian Oil (which is nothing but a corporate event! Also if you look at the test team, odi team and 2020 team the nucleus of players is generally the same...For example if you look at Dhoni he looks physically and mentally jaded not just him many of the indian cricketers this is not only due to playing cricket but also the below reasons.
What I mean by culture is that Indian Cricketers (the top contracted players) have so many distractions apart from playing Cricket, such as shooting tons of commercials, attending TV SHows, Bollywood events...so when do they practice or thrive to improve? The answer is they are too mentally tired to do this and once all this is over (events, commercials shows) they just want to rest.
In which other country do you see cricketers on pretty much every TV Channel appearing in commercials or some TV show or another?
Until these cultural changes are made (do not think it is possible) Indian cricket will never sustain world dominannce like Australia in the 2000s and WI in the 70s, 80s..they will always produce ridiculously talented cricketers but until these things are changed things will not improve.
Of course pitches do not help..but Pakistan pitches are very flat too and I can't see them having the most controlled diets..
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I would like to put forward another angle and this is the culture of India and the way the cricketers are treated and worshiped like no other country. The biggest problem with Indian cricketers is that they simple do not have the time to practice and properly develop as cricketers..as firstly they play too much cricket (i think the most ODI's anyway) plus many of the national cricketers have to play for there government teams like Air India, Indian Oil (which is nothing but a corporate event! Also if you look at the test team, odi team and 2020 team the nucleus of players is generally the same...For example if you look at Dhoni he looks physically and mentally jaded not just him many of the indian cricketers this is not only due to playing cricket but also the below reasons.
What I mean by culture is that Indian Cricketers (the top contracted players) have so many distractions apart from playing Cricket, such as shooting tons of commercials, attending TV SHows, Bollywood events...so when do they practice or thrive to improve? The answer is they are too mentally tired to do this and once all this is over (events, commercials shows) they just want to rest.
In which other country do you see cricketers on pretty much every TV Channel appearing in commercials or some TV show or another?
Until these cultural changes are made (do not think it is possible) Indian cricket will never sustain world dominannce like Australia in the 2000s and WI in the 70s, 80s..they will always produce ridiculously talented cricketers but until these things are changed things will not improve.
Of course pitches do not help..but Pakistan pitches are very flat too and I can't see them having the most controlled diets..
All the perks and bonuses start when you become a star cricketer. So distration is only when you go to the top. But grooming of a player start's way early.
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Yes you are right in that aspect..but I do not think Grooming the players early is an issue at all as look at Ishant Sharma before the IPL 1 started... just after the tour of Australia he was being billed as the best young bowler around and I would agree to some degree as he made the Australia batsmen look average esp Pointing...however once he came back home he got numerous deals for TV commercials, appearances on chat shows.. and got snapped up by KKR for a silly 1.3million dollars (around that figure) after a couple of good outings in TEST Cricket...
Also same good be said for Sreesanth these days all he does is dance more then he bowls and to be honest is a wasted talent as even Alan Donald said whilst at Warwickshire that Sreesanth has a special talent but only is he focused more he would be a world class bowler!
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Yes you are right in that aspect..but I do not think Grooming the players early is an issue at all as look at Ishant Sharma before the IPL 1 started... just after the tour of Australia he was being billed as the best young bowler around and I would agree to some degree as he made the Australia batsmen look average esp Pointing...however once he came back home he got numerous deals for TV commercials, appearances on chat shows.. and got snapped up by KKR for a silly 1.3million dollars (around that figure) after a couple of good outings in TEST Cricket...
Also same good be said for Sreesanth these days all he does is dance more then he bowls and to be honest is a wasted talent as even Alan Donald said whilst at Warwickshire that Sreesanth has a special talent but only is he focused more he would be a world class bowler!
I agree with you on this. We have lot of upcomming talents but they indulge in uneccessary activities and ruin their skills. But why does this not apply for batsman ?? They too do the same, but we have really good batsman.
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I think Indians simply prefer the glamour of batting with people like Yuvraj and Laxman who appear somewhat sloth like are admired adoringly, while guys like srinath, khan and current seamers who slog their guts out always seem to cop the flack when India don't perform.
IPL and t20 in general is adored out there simply because they prefer the ball flying out the park compared to a skillful spell of seam or spin bowling.
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IPL and t20 in general is adored out there simply because they prefer the ball flying out the park compared to a skillful spell of seam or spin bowling.
In one interview Sachin was telling an incident, his son always wants to hit a six. "He said hitting a six is not bad, but if you would keep the ball down, you get more chances of scoring."
In the T20 era we have forgotten to respect the good balls and just hit out on any deliveries. A batsman can use a + 3 lbs bat, reason he is strong. Then why cant a bowler ball with a 7 oz ball if he is stronger ??
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I think Indians simply prefer the glamour of batting with people like Yuvraj and Laxman who appear somewhat sloth like are admired adoringly, while guys like srinath, khan and current seamers who slog their guts out always seem to cop the flack when India don't perform.
IPL and t20 in general is adored out there simply because they prefer the ball flying out the park compared to a skillful spell of seam or spin bowling.
Agree.... we in India prefer the glamour of batting than bowling. I have friends from Pakistan as well and I have noticed that they idealise bowlers more than batsmen? In India we idealise batsmen more than bowlers ..its just inherent in Indians.
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now... wat if india and pakistan joined up o.o
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now... wat if india and pakistan joined up o.o
That will be a major mistake. We already have a huge cricket playing population and due to this a huge number of upcomming talents drops out at early stage. Reasons are obvious, politics, money, competition , luck etc etc...
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The pitch for 1st Test will kill any young cricketer's dream of becoming a fast bowler ..
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now... wat if india and pakistan joined up o.o
Political nightmare...
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well, I'd pay to see the results, lets put it that way ;)
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In 2nd Innings ( India vs Aus test), out of 93 overs ( Indian bowling), spinners bowled 90 :( ................
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Back in the day when Mohammed Sami was playing , Waqar Younis or Ramiz Raja was commentating on the reason why he was quick . The tape ball or tennis ball cricket prevalent in Pakistan needs a quick arm action to gather any pace and this quicker arm action when using a cricket ball translates to even more speed . Furthermore there was a similar explanation to how Malinga's action evolved on cricinfo . He used to play tennis ball cricket by the beach and learned over time that a sideways slingy release was more useful to generate pace against the breeze from the sea than the classical release . He was also an excellent swimmer infact the best in his village which aided him to develop strong musculature suitable to cope with his slingy and potentially injury causing action.
I also think India as a country most everyone wants to be a batsman or want to bat. Kids from an early age want to be like Tendulkar or Sehwag, we have never really had real good fast bowlers which can serve as role models for these kids. From club school teams all the way to bigger club teams the kids much rather bat then go out there and bowl.
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Reactivating an old topic, btw new to this forum..
During the days when I used to play for State U-15, U-19 days I have seen quite a few quick ones up North especially in Punjab when we used to tour these states for matches. Not many down south of India.. So, maybe the food culture and the weather do have a role to play for a fast bowler??
Alas, none of these guys were interested in pursuing and making a career in cricket.. Would have quit the next time we tour the same state..
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the pitches in india destroy quick bowlers. Why would you pursue a craft which makes you run in 40 degree(celcius) heat bowl on a dust pit and get smashed to all corners of the field because the only movement you get is with the curry you have after the game.
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because the only movement you get is with the curry you have after the game.
:D :D :D
Well that's true with pitches in Pakistan as well, no? But they still end up producing a couple of good ones every era..
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:D :D :D
Well that's true with pitches in Pakistan as well, no? But they still end up producing a couple of good ones every era..
true but in India batsmen are more revered.
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I know diet has been discussed but ruled out because Peter Siddle is a veggie.
But how do the diets still compare? Siddle has a full time team of nutritionists when with Australia, so will be taking shakes etc etc to get missing nutrients.
Siddle became a veggie in 2012, so was already established as a fast bowler and will have built up his muscle strength.
What is a junior indian veggie eating? I doubt they're getting all the required nutrients to build up enough strength to be a 90mph bowler.
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It's been touched on in this thread. It's because every young player in India wants to be Sachin. Now they want to be Kohli.
Where are the fast bowling heroes?
As a slight aside, it's good to see Duncan Fletcher belnding the side he wants. Younger players all round, fast bowlers (Yadav, Shami) and multi-purpose cricketers (Ashwin, Jadeja). Hopefully we'll see a much more competitive side next summer in the UK...