Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Forum News and Suggestions => Old Advertisers => Admin Board => It's Just Cricket => Topic started by: joeljonno on March 14, 2013, 01:40:17 PM
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Was in London at the weekend for a stag do and had a few minutes to spare on Saturday morning so thought I’d drop in to IJC. Jumped off the tube at the Elephant and Castle and within a good five minutes was at the store.
Welcomed nicely and had a good chat. There is some quality willow in that place, especially as it is not as big as I expected.
Must admit that it was the first time I’d seen the Hammer bats “in the flesh” and was pleasantly surprised with the quality. Plenty of willow and grains for your money and if I had that money to spare and needing a new bat, I would definitely consider Hammer.
I also got to see a Vantage for the first time and these picked up especially nice for their weights.
I’d highly recommend IJC if you are in London and requiring cricket stuff as you’ll get a top service and great advice.
I was lucky enough to get to pick up a couple of bats and have a look at a bag which have not been released yet. Impressed is an understatement. Looking forward to them coming out.
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. Plenty of willow and grains for your money.
really? £180 bat plus shiny stickers = £300+ really good value
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really? £1800 bat plus shiny stickers = £300+ really good value
Sounds like a real bargain to me!
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1800 quid?? I'm confused where does that figure come from?
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1800 quid?? I'm confused where does that figure come from?
I'm no expert but it looks like a typo for 180 to
me.
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Yeah that makes sense!
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really? £1800 bat plus shiny stickers = £300+ really good value
I never said it was 'really good value'. I said that it had some nice grain and plenty of willow for your money.
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It may look like good value next to a £375 Milichamp or a £400 Legend but when you think there's a few guys here that will make a filly custom bat with any specs you want for less (£250.00 for a BR) it puts the value into question. But we are very spoilt here :)
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We are in a priviledged position that we can liaise with the batmakers direct, and there are often amazing deals provided here. However, to the regular cricketer who is not on here and who are often influenced by less relevant things such as the stickers, the name or the fact that it is £300 "so it must be good" when in fact it is a piece of wood that have ended up at any batmaker. It is what the batmaker does with it afterwards that makes the difference.
I'd say that the other "big" ranges have bats at £300 or more so I wouldn't write off Hammer just because it was £300.
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I'd say that the other "big" ranges have bats at £300 or more so I wouldn't write off Hammer just because it was £300.
The other 'Big' ranges have spent years in the business earning the reputation and kudos to demand £300+ bats.
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The other 'Big' ranges have spent years in the business earning the reputation and kudos to demand £300+ bats.
It's ridiculous to suggest that no new business can come into a market with a high price point product though!
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I'm not dismissing hammer bats mate. They are made by some quality pod shavers. Thing is though like Bird says the big boys and a lot of the bespoke brands have been at it for years and years and still use the ame channels for equipment, willow etc etc brands like Hammer and a few others seem to pop up to milk the market quickly and then disappear when the money is made or the sales dry up. Tbh I'd rather throw my £300 at a bespoke brand I know are in it for the game, good of the business etc or even the shelf stuff that are going to be around longer should I ever need them to be. These guys make money to make equipment. They are not a potential money making hobby
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It's ridiculous to suggest that no new business can come into a market with a high price point product though!
It is when the competion offer exactly the same product if not better for less money.
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The other 'Big' ranges have spent years in the business earning the reputation and kudos to demand £300+ bats.
Right, so because they have spent a long time in the business, they must be better then.
Or
The bats are of comparable standard and should be priced accordingly.
I'm not getting into an argument just because there are some on here who don't like a particular brand. I just gave "my own personal opinion" on a bat because they are a sponsor of this board.
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I just think charging into a market waving your arms about and charging the earth isn't the right approach if you want the customer to believe and invest in your product. Build up a reputation and gain respect first.
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At the end of the day guys, they're obviously good bats. Otherwise nobody would ever buy them.
I don't care what he wants to charge tbh, I was just saying Value for money can be sourced elsewhere and personally if I had that kind of Moolar to spend on a bat I'd probably go to a more established brand.
Saying that though, if the same Guys are still making for Hammer in. Few seasons and the brand is still around I will probably invest because they always look good
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I think Hammer might have every right to charge the prices that they do. However without trying them I can't say if it is justified. For me I'd rather grab a similar made bat from a different brand for less.
If Jason wanted to give a few bats out to review to get good honest feedback then I am sure there are a few on here that would do so.
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I just think charging into a market waving your arms about and charging the earth isn't the right approach if you want the customer to believe and invest in your product. Build up a reputation and gain respect first.
Sometimes that's the only way mate. Lots of competition around nowadays. I keep telling RP to make more noise AMD advertise his stuff but he's quote happy doing things the old way
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It is when the competion offer exactly the same product if not better for less money.
Does your avarege punter even know who the Keeleys are, all they see is nice stickers and clean grains. You have to price for your market, not for a 'select' ground of geeks!
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I think Hammer might have every right to charge the prices that they do. However without trying them I can't say if it is justified. For me I'd rather grab a similar made bat from a different brand for less.
If Jason wanted to give a few bats out to review to get good honest feedback then I am sure there are a few on here that would do so.
its worked in the past. I bet there would be a decent cue as well. Myself included. But I agree with the other options, for £300 you could probably get two bats here that equal the quality, craftsmanship and performance. Depending on who you talk to that is.
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Does your avarege punter even know who the Keeleys are, all they see is nice stickers and clean grains. You have to price for your market, not for a 'select' ground of geeks!
But the market doesn't warrant more £300+ bats does it? I'm interested in the lesser priced hammer bats that are on the horizon, I would've started with that first in my personal opinion.
Mr Soulman revealed yesterday about the abundance of grade 2/3/4 bats from a known batmaker. What a great way to get into the market and offer something different to an amazing ping tastic bat that costs £300+, Everyone is doing that nowadays.
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Definately, Who has purchased a Hammer bat on here so far? I think Chris *Soulman* has. would be interested to see what his feedback on the bat is.
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Does your avarege punter even know who the Keeleys are, all they see is nice stickers and clean grains. You have to price for your market, not for a 'select' ground of geeks!
As I said earlier.... we are very lucky here. We all know too much and source gear from far too many quality merchants. The average cricketer who is used to paying shelf prices for gear will not have an issue with it. I've found that having a retail, discount and forum price has worked for BR stuff. You guys get a special discount, my team mates and friends aren't used to spending big cash on gear so they get a small discount and the walk through the door guy pays what he sees.
Mayne something for hammer to consider here???
Let's not forget he has the bats made so will pay more for the service than say a cleft costs a batmaker. It all comes down to what profit he wants to make as well. The price isn't too high compared to what others charge, there's just too much competition to fight off now.
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But the market doesn't warrant more £300+ bats does it? I'm interested in the lesser priced hammer bats that are on the horizon, I would've started with that first in my personal opinion.
Mr Soulman revealed yesterday about the abundance of grade 2/3/4 bats from a known batmaker. What a great way to get into the market and offer something different to an amazing ping tastic bat that costs £300+, Everyone is doing that nowadays.
As stated before though, the stuff really aimed at the Us and Oz, where 300 is a pretty normal price for a grade 1 bat.
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As stated before though, the stuff really aimed at the Us and Oz, where 300 is a pretty normal price for a grade 1 bat.
Totally understand that mate, advertising on here was a mistake then wasn't it.
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Totally understand that mate, advertising on here was a mistake then wasn't it.
Nah, nothing wrong with trying to expand, esp at the cost of 15 a month or whatever it is. Can't imagine he'll get many sales from it, but it's pretty cheap publicity to a bunch of people who spend a lot of their time looking at and talking about cricket equipment.
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269.99 for regular grade 1 and 334.99 for le. The prices aren't bad for retail at all when you look at the bigger picture. If Hammer can get some sales in and a regular showing here with a few forum sales and reviews is like to think the brand will do ok.
Just need to establish themselves in the UK and let's remember, we are a horrible lot to please on here. The forum has ruined our innocence ;) :D
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Nah, nothing wrong with trying to expand, esp at the cost of 15 a month or whatever it is. Can't imagine he'll get many sales from it, but it's pretty cheap publicity to a bunch of people who spend a lot of their time looking at and talking about cricket equipment.
It could turn into a very established and regular customer base as well. The guys know their stuff and if this Hammer kit is worth its salt it will have its day like the others. Easiest and cheapest advertising going. I cannot disagre with that mate
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Nah, nothing wrong with trying to expand, esp at the cost of 15 a month or whatever it is. Can't imagine he'll get many sales from it, but it's pretty cheap publicity to a bunch of people who spend a lot of their time looking at and talking about cricket equipment.
Fair point mate
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MY view is ..
if you walk into a shop there are 2 bats on the shelf
1 bat is a GN legnend other bat is a Hammer both bats are lets say £400 quid
joe public is usually gonna pick the legend. because gn have spent the last 100 years creating there brand..
when a new company comes out and says wow look at this its also 400 quid but no body has a bloody clue who it is.
where as if it was priced a little cheaper id be more likley to look at it buy it
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MY view is ..
if you walk into a shop there are 2 bats on the shelf
1 bat is a GN legnend other bat is a Hammer both bats are lets say £400 quid
joe public is usually gonna pick the legend. because gn have spent the last 100 years creating there brand..
when a new company comes out and says wow look at this its also 400 quid but no body has a bloody clue who it is.
where as if it was priced a little cheaper id be more likley to look at it buy it
Not always though, especially if the hammer looks better in their eyes.
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MY view is ..
if you walk into a shop there are 2 bats on the shelf
1 bat is a GN legnend other bat is a Hammer both bats are lets say £400 quid joe public is usually gonna pick the legend. because gn have spent the last 100 years creating there brand..when a new company comes out and says wow look at this its also 400 quid but no body has a bloody clue who it is. where as if it was priced a little cheaper id be more likley to look at it buy it
Actually from what I have seen if someone walks in (with a 400 quid budget) and sees two bats Legend & Hammer, both priced the same and they have average knowledge of products then they will buy whatever stickers look better to them...at this point I think Hammer is ahead on stickers...although retro GN looks nice too but I think Hammer is edging it...
I think Hammer's target is people who walk in with a wad of cash, which is fine as it will setup the brand as top of the line stuff (which they are anyways)...remember most people think expensive = good quality...
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I think Hammer needs at least 1 lower grade/cost bat to rope in people who are hesitant, and you know how it works...if you have had 1 great bat from a brand chances are you are going to stick with them for a long time and most likely buy more expensive models in future...look at me with RPC, Pedals with Chase, Procricketer with SS etc...
P.s. I would be more than happy to review a Hammer and compare it to my RPC, SCat, Salix, H4L if Jason wants to send me one. I can also gurantee you an honest review considering I sold my virtually brand new Hades on ebay for 11.50 GBP....
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MY view is ..
if you walk into a shop there are 2 bats on the shelf
1 bat is a GN legnend other bat is a Hammer both bats are lets say £400 quid
joe public is usually gonna pick the legend. because gn have spent the last 100 years creating there brand..
when a new company comes out and says wow look at this its also 400 quid but no body has a bloody clue who it is.
where as if it was priced a little cheaper id be more likley to look at it buy it
I'd be tempted to think the opposite. Because GN have a big range I reckon the view might be '£400 for a GN? - They must be joking.'
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MY view is ..
if you walk into a shop there are 2 bats on the shelf
1 bat is a GN legnend other bat is a Hammer both bats are lets say £400 quid
joe public is usually gonna pick the legend. because gn have spent the last 100 years creating there brand..
when a new company comes out and says wow look at this its also 400 quid but no body has a bloody clue who it is.
where as if it was priced a little cheaper id be more likley to look at it buy it
And for every person who thinks that, there is one who thinks "ooooh that's different, I might try Hammer". There will always be people who like and dislike companies for whatever reason. Personally, I have never really got on with GNs as much as other bats (no idea why?) and if I had to spend £400 and the was a choice between the two, I would not be as quick to go for the Legend. It would come down to how the bats feel in the hand.
I think there is room for plenty of bats, companies, prices, etc. If you don't like something then you don't buy it. Simple.
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I think Hammer needs at least 1 lower grade/cost bat to rope in people who are hesitant, and you know how it works...if you have had 1 great bat from a brand chances are you are going to stick with them for a long time and most likely buy more expensive models in future...look at me with RPC, Pedals with Chase, Procricketer with SS etc...
P.s. I would be more than happy to review a Hammer and compare it to my RPC, SCat, Salix, H4L if Jason wants to send me one. I can also gurantee you an honest review considering I sold my virtually brand new Hades on ebay for 11.50 GBP....
You'll have to let me know next time you list a bat on eBay.
But more seriously this all comes down to if you like the bats and what you're willing to spend. I've no doubt that a hammer is just as good as the other more expensive bats Paul sells. Personally I think £300 is too much for any bat given how you can buy bats that will probably perform as well for far less that just don't look as nice. I don't play premier league and if I was good enough too my opinion may be different but I think £150 is probably the most I'd spend on a bat. At the moment that rules me out if buying a hammer, if they released a cheaper bat I might consider it.
I think the argument about spending less on a bat and more on coaching has been made before on here and is probably the best advice for most of us.
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We've sold more Hammer bats than any other brand from mid-Feb through to today. All to UK based customers too. Make of that what you will...
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We've sold more Hammer bats than any other brand from mid-Feb through to today. All to UK based customers too. Make of that what you will...
That is the only factor that matters mate. If they sell theres nothing else to worry about.
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We've sold more Hammer bats than any other brand from mid-Feb through to today. All to UK based customers too. Make of that what you will...
what RP just said! ;)
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They sell because they are quality, and quality will always sell, no matter the price. End of...
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Actually from what I have seen if someone walks in (with a 400 quid budget) and sees two bats Legend & Hammer, both priced the same and they have average knowledge of products then they will buy whatever stickers look better to them...at this point I think Hammer is ahead on stickers...although retro GN looks nice too but I think Hammer is edging it...
I think Hammer's target is people who walk in with a wad of cash, which is fine as it will setup the brand as top of the line stuff (which they are anyways)...remember most people think expensive = good quality...
No disrespect to Paul and Jason here (I'm just playing devils advocate) if you had £400 and an average knowledge of bats, would you choose a Hammer over a Laver? I know which I would pick. I've seen the Hammer bats and they are lovely sticks, but would I want to part with that much money for something that isn't custom made to my specifications?
One other thing about visiting Tall Paul's which I believe that quite a few people on here miss, is his knowledge of what kit will fit peoples needs and what won't, bear in mind we aren't just talking about forum nerds like us who make up about 0.1% of cricketers. Your average club player won't know the difference between an unstickered Hammer and an unstickered Legend, which is where someone like Paul comes in as he is able to educate mr average in his decision making.
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No disrespect to Paul and Jason here (I'm just playing devils advocate) if you had £400 and an average knowledge of bats, would you choose a Hammer over a Laver? I know which I would pick. I've seen the Hammer bats and they are lovely sticks, but would I want to part with that much money for something that isn't custom made to my specifications?
One other thing about visiting Tall Paul's which I believe that quite a few people on here miss, is his knowledge of what kit will fit peoples needs and what won't, bear in mind we aren't just talking about forum nerds like us who make up about 0.1% of cricketers. Your average club player won't know the difference between an unstickered Hammer and an unstickered Legend, which is where someone like Paul comes in as he is able to educate mr average in his decision making.
You'd be surprised to know but there are a lot of people who have never ever heard of L&W as well...
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You'd be surprised to know but there are a lot of people who have never ever heard of L&W as well...
True, I'm just trying to use a what if scenario where someone with some knowledge has heard of both.
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At least 75% of the people that walk through my door don't know anything beyond GN, GM, Kookaburra, Slazenger and a handful of others.
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I thought i would start off with this...
(http://i1359.photobucket.com/albums/q790/Jason_Mellet/IMG_0035_zps4d383eb4.jpg)
The many faces of texting ( forums )...probably 5/10 of my posts for some reason seem to upset people. I know there is one guy who gets upset when i do this......
Please note i am making a concerted effort to stop doing that. And will try not to rape the english language for you guys.Please note today i am happy and am actually quite impressed with this discussion so far. No one has really been one sided, rude or just trying to stir the pot. Which i must say is refreshing.
I think one of my biggest challenges in getting accepted on this forum has been the question, " why are you more expensive than brand X who get their bats from the same place "? and for me the answer is simple but i can understand why you perceive me as being more expensive. I saw this same issue now as im developing some kit bags in india and a similar bag is already for sale from the same supplier here in the Uk from brand X. Its simple, brand X isnt for sale in stores. They are only available on the Brands website. If he wanted to ever grow and put them in stores he would have to increase his prices 30%. same issue with bats. Im also not going to say my bats are better than brand X who get their bats made at the same place, Its simple, im 4000 miles away from my bat maker and i sell my bats in stores. to do that everyone wants to make money and therefore the prices are higher.
A question may be, why are indian made bats the same price as bats made in England, shouldn't they be cheaper?
There is also the issue of How dare i charge a similar price to the top boys, who do i think i am? :) Did you know, if Paul sells a Hammer bat, he makes more money than me off that bat but doesnt make more off my bats than any other brand. My thought is my prices are comparable with other brands in that respect.
My gear is quality, and quality is not cheap. That little sticker on the side of my bat that says " made in England " and " made in NZ " thats a very very expensive sticker, far more expensive than any £300 bat. It also carries a lot on its shoulders. many of you would not even look at a bat unless its made in England and thats probably the same for many people around in the world.
In a way the Bespoke industry in the UK ( although its good for the consumer as its gives you a big selection ) is hurting the industry as well. As the bespoke bat maker only puts his % on top of the price. It may be the reason i think GM eventually will move their production to india one day. They cant compete on price for much longer and will follow slazenger and gray nicolls to india. And i think that will be a sad day when they do.
Moving to another continent now. Ive been hard on aussie stores in some of my videos in the past for being so damn expensive and now that im working to get into that market i know why, and you will be surprised to know my bats are in fact at present not expensive enough to fit in there. The reason is this, a 20% import tax on all shipments over $1000.
As far as cheaper bats go, please contact Paul if you are interested in a £190 Hammer.
I hope that has clarified some issues for you guys and hope you guys see this in the context in which its intended.
I also want to say, i know my bats arent for everybody. I understand if you want a legend over a hammer. Legends are awesome bats. As many of you may know at present im not even using a hammer bat myself. Yes you heard it, im not using a hammer. Im in the business of cricket bats and there are so many wonderful bats and bat makers out there. I currently have an Affinity and a H4L. both are just beautiful bats and if either move to america they would very quickly become bat makers for Hammer. I would love to own a screaming cat one day ( hopefully not with 5 grains though )some of you know what thats about. the GM players edition epic is a belter, would love to have a blue room and thats just to name a few. i certainly wouldnt mind one of the GN dynadrives that are made in england with 10 grains. that would be a beauty. so why limit yourself to only one bat and one brand. go out there, enjoy life, dont take it to seriously and have a pint with mates as often as possible.
thanks
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:) your best post to date
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:) your best post to date
thanks mate....maybe i will send you one of my new Power grade bats....or is it performance grade or maybe Grade X...
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thanks mate....maybe i will send you one of my new Power grade bats....or is it performance grade or maybe Grade X...
Cool, I wouldn't mind that...if you want to try any of mine let me know...
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I'm not sure why you have to keep justifying your prices.
Its getting boring reading the same posts from the same people saying there over priced. If they are over priced they won't sell. Simple. If they are selling which Paul has said they are, then they are priced to sell. Simple.
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Why has this turned into a hammer debate? Its a shame that this thread has taken the shine of Paul's good customer service a it was intended to do
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I'm not sure why you have to keep justifying your prices.
Its getting boring reading the same posts from the same people saying there over priced. If they are over priced they won't sell. Simple. If they are selling which Paul has said they are, then they are priced to sell. Simple.
Well said - it's not compulsory to buy them y'know!
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I think Hammer needs at least 1 lower grade/cost bat to rope in people who are hesitant, and you know how it works...if you have had 1 great bat from a brand chances are you are going to stick with them for a long time and most likely buy more expensive models in future...look at me with RPC, Pedals with Chase, Procricketer with SS etc...
P.s. I would be more than happy to review a Hammer and compare it to my RPC, SCat, Salix, H4L if Jason wants to send me one. I can also gurantee you an honest review considering I sold my virtually brand new Hades on ebay for 11.50 GBP....
11.50 GBP for brand new Hades? Hope you are not kidding. :)
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Why has this turned into a hammer debate? Its a shame that this thread has taken the shine of Paul's good customer service a it was intended to do
Agreed. amazing how the word "Hammer" leads to all these discussions
if one doesn't want to buy a Hammer bat because its expensive then don't buy
None of those guys will ever comment on other high priced brands as laver and wood or screaming cat (no offense to either one) etc
Hammer brand is selling well and Jason has a good handle on the marketing of his product
So good luck to Hammer and lets try to avoid negative criticism
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Who on here has bought one? Be good to see a review.
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Here you go, enjoy! http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=21964.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=21964.0)
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Jason, quality post. No need for you to have to explain your prices or strategy but you do so anyway. To a bunch of bat nerds too! ;) you must enjoy how many threads turn in to a Hammer cricket topic too! Generates a fair amount of interest.
As for Hammer, all I can say is I was might impressed when I saw their bats at IJC. I was just as impressed when I borrowed Paul's Vapen. Really great bat. Ball absolutely flew put of the middle. Like the profile too.
Looking forward to seeing their bats again tomorrow!
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But are hammer selling
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Well from Paul they must be. Was a fairly different selection to when I first saw them a few months ago.
Id wager they have a different selection again right now?
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Correct, Jamie, as you'll see for yourself later today, we don't have many Hammer bats left now and have had to order in more, which should be arriving mid-late next week...
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Anyone else reading this thinking 'I want to try/own a Hammer bat?!'
No such thing as bad publicity!
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And there'll be a new £190 Hammer bat coming out next month remember...