Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: himanshuvohra on July 15, 2013, 06:11:07 AM
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Hiii friends
Was just wondering if there is any other difference then that of hieght in harrow and short handle bats.....
As I am 5 feet 8 and I am getting GN LEGEND harrow at 175 GBP...as compared to 400 gbp short handle....quite a difference for 3/4 Inch.
As there are many retailer friends in here.....help me guys...
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Harrow bats a narrower too. Small Mens might be a more appropriate compromise?
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Being at 5'8 and for that price difference I would go for the Harrow sized bat!
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The difference in width is only about 2.1mm. The difference in length is 0.75 inches, as you said.
At 5'8" you are on the borderline, so an Academy/Small Mens/Super Short Handle might be worth considering. Ultimately, it's a personal thing, though, and it depends which one feels best in the hands...
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The only problem with harrow size is the availability of weights above 2 lbs 7oz.
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Buy a harrow from MSR, I'm sure they've got some for about £20, to get used to the size. Or chop 3/4 of an inch off the bottom of an old bat?
Personally, for the price, and your height, I'd go for the harrow. I can never understand how junior bats sell for so much less than full size bats, when in reality they're not much smaller.
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Most of the young lads at my club are around my size 5'7 i know short (No Swearing Please), but they all use harrow and not the cheap specs the full Gunn and moore LE models only ones that don't are sponsored or half sponsored and get their kit for a discount, otherwise an academy would be a good idea i think.
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Hi,
You haven't said how old you are. If you are still growing then before you spend 175 pounds I would suggest getting a SH from a place like MSR (net bat or lower grade) and have a few nets with it. This way you can then take some length of the bottom of the bat or even the handle. I bought my son SH bats because he needed a heavier bat (long story!). I then cut the handle down and then counter balanced the bat with weights.
If you have stopped growing then I would still get a cheap SH and take it from there.
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I think the handles a lot thinner on junior bats as well.
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I too have been thinking this, i use light bats as it is so i might as well save huge amounts and just go for a harrow. Would 2 mm off width make much of a difference at all?
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I think the handles a lot thinner on junior bats as well.
Ha! That's part of my long story :) my son has big hands and he felt uncomfortable with the thinner handles and double grips didn't help either. :(
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thanks for the reply guys.... i am 25...i dont think i ll grow more :-p
actuallly i am from India and have always wanted to own a gray nics legend...but the retail price of that bat is vey much out of my budget. So, after receiving a good deal on this one made me think of going for a harrow bat.....
I am more of an attacking batsman, and at present i am using a 2.8 lbs bat.
so my point is...will that 2.1mm and 3/4 inch make much of a difference?\
:)
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I think if you get it,you would soon adapt to it, as long as you keep using that bat and not using another of different dimentions.
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I've just bought myself another harrow and I'm 6ft1, I alternate between harrow and short handle depending on my mood haha
My logic was its the weight I use and the difference in size isn't noticeable 95% of the time
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sometimes people can get away with a harrow if your lucky,
im 6 foot on the dot and ive used a harrow in the past, although a heavy one and worked well and saved some money too!
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Why dont you try BlackCat Prodigy. Its in between a harrow and short handle bat plus you get the same great quality of a Shadow.
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Becaus the whole point of this thread wasto save money
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I don't really find a difference between them
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I've been using a harrow willostix stick for the last 2 seasons. Its 2.9 with 34mm edges and I can honestly say I can't tell any difference between that and a full size. Lots of mates have used it and haven't told them its a harrow and they not noticed either. Just said it saw inch shorter blade like my Uzi. Saved over £100 and there's no difference, its the way to go!
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Becaus the whole point of this thread wasto save money
FYI - The prodigy sells for the same price as GN Harrow he is getting for... GBP 175 ... plus a bigger size than harrow...
Do we not all recognize that batmakers on this forum are better than these big brands.... better value for the money i feel...
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Crickfreak has a valid point ....but friend as I told you I am from india....and trust me there are plenty of good batmakers....the whole point is buying a gray nics which I have desired since my childhood....
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Right now I am using SS bats....and trust me....I get them at ridiculously cheap prices....
Got this one at a little under $100...
And its one of the finest bats.
Grade 3 or 2(cant tell :p) ,12 straight grains 40 mm edges and 2.8
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/uhy4apyb.jpg)
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/16/qytesypu.jpg)
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I want to buy it Just for the feel of playing with a gray nics....
And thanx guys for the replies...
I think I ll go with the harrrow legend :)
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I know I am bringing this thread up from the dead...
I'm 5ft 4/5, and have been using a SH for 5 seasons maybe now... I'm 18, but there is definitely no sign of growth. I've tried standing in a grow bag but it just won't work!
I've always struggled with the weight and scale of SH bats, and never actually had a harrow. I just find balance an issue, I don't know whether this is because of my lack of height or not...
I'm currently using a Hunts County Clipper because it was the lightest bat in the shop, but do you reckon getting a harrow in the end of season sale is a good idea, just to try it out?
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Wh not try an academy, or small men's sized bat?
They are cheaper too :)
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I found the small mens bat to be virtually identical to harrow, just more expensive? Thing is, if I can get a top of the range harrow for say £100 notes... I'm laughing.
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My take on it is that harrows have a narrower blade, small men's have a full size blade in terms of width. This can vary by manufacturer though.
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Oh right? What are the GM Academy bats actually like?
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Newbury 7even and kudos are similar to Academy as the blade length is shorter. We have some CA bats which have shorter blade length. Also BAS harrow bats are like small men bats.
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Not sure if someone has already answered this, but have often wondered why is there such a price difference between Harrow size and SH (given the fairly small differences in dimensions).
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Hiii friends
Was just wondering if there is any other difference then that of hieght in harrow and short handle bats.....
As I am 5 feet 8 and I am getting GN LEGEND harrow at 175 GBP...as compared to 400 gbp short handle....quite a difference for 3/4 Inch.
As there are many retailer friends in here.....help me guys...
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
hey mate did you buy the GN legend in the end, was thinking of doing the same myself (buying 175 GBP GN Legend) and wanted to know how you got on with it, in case you bought.
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I always buy harrow bats, and im 6ft 2in. It may sound crazy at that height but I've always held the bat right at the top, with some of my glove peaking over, so essentially, it is the same as someone my size playing a SH with a conventional low placed grip. What i see is with the little bit off the width of the bat and the toe, more meat goes where i want it to while still maintaining a 2lb 5oz to 2lb 7oz weight. This could be attributed to the fact that i require a light blade as my hands are very quick, but i also need substantial meat for my slaps down the ground and i feel harrow bats fit that criteria. I reckon if you hold it high up, harrow's the way to go, but if you hold it at the bottom, that saved $150 won't be worth it , however at your height, i'd go harrow either way. One disadvantage is that every once in a while i miss the crease when turning for a run but that usually ends up with me getting one less run, so no biggy.
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I always buy harrow bats, and im 6ft 2in. It may sound crazy at that height but I've always held the bat right at the top, with some of my glove peaking over, so essentially, it is the same as someone my size playing a SH with a conventional low placed grip. What i see is with the little bit off the width of the bat and the toe, more meat goes where i want it to while still maintaining a 2lb 5oz to 2lb 7oz weight. This could be attributed to the fact that i require a light blade as my hands are very quick, but i also need substantial meat for my slaps down the ground and i feel harrow bats fit that criteria. I reckon if you hold it high up, harrow's the way to go, but if you hold it at the bottom, that saved $150 won't be worth it , however at your height, i'd go harrow either way. One disadvantage is that every once in a while i miss the crease when turning for a run but that usually ends up with me getting one less run, so no biggy.
I'm not the only one! :D
Another point I make is that the blade is at most 5mm narrower, that may sound a lot but when you think about it, that's virtually nothing off each edge. An you tend to try and use the middle of the bat anyway so the difference is so small you don't notice when using it.
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What an interesting topic. Kinda miffed that I missed this.
I am 5ft 8, and when I was looking into getting bats made I fell into the borderline of harrow or SH. I went for the SH because I just want to feel taller. Also I am super strong, HENCH all day long, so a 2.7 or less would be ridiculous I think in my hands. 2.10/2.11 is what I feel comfortable with. 2.9 is when I want speed any thing less and it's almost like I don't feel the bat (odd I know)
So not really sure if there was a definate answer on here but can harrow bats get heavier?
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What an interesting topic. Kinda miffed that I missed this.
I am 5ft 8, and when I was looking into getting bats made I fell into the borderline of harrow or SH. I went for the SH because I just want to feel taller. Also I am super strong, HENCH all day long, so a 2.7 or less would be ridiculous I think in my hands. 2.10/2.11 is what I feel comfortable with. 2.9 is when I want speed any thing less and it's almost like I don't feel the bat (odd I know)
So not really sure if there was a definate answer on here but can harrow bats get heavier?
Custom made ones could be made heavier I'd imagine. Can's see a lot of kids using a 2.11 bat though so you might want to invest in some lead tape to make one heavier :)
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Custom made ones could be made heavier I'd imagine. Can's see a lot of kids using a 2.11 bat though so you might want to invest in some lead tape to make one heavier :)
I guess the price only plays a part if I am going for off the shelf bats, if I get one of the sponsors I guess I would be paying the same price as a normal SH.
Edit: just saw the RPC custom for £190 instead of £280, food for thought.
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It all sounds rather promising, might take a punt on the GMs in Harrow at Pro Direct, can always return them if no good.
GM Epic Original LE £95
or
GM ICON Original £80
Decisions, decisions.
Also, sorry Asad but I will never buy a Newbery product again.
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It all sounds rather promising, might take a punt on the GMs in Harrow at Pro Direct, can always return them if no good.
GM Epic Original LE £95
or
GM ICON Original £80
Decisions, decisions.
You might as well buy both mate, still half the price one of the mentioned bats in short handle ;)
I don't know how good Pro Direct would be, but when I bough my Harrow Octane I asked for one in 2lb7 in the special comments when I ordered and got that exact weight. :D
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I guess the price only plays a part if I am going for off the shelf bats, if I get one of the sponsors I guess I would be paying the same price as a normal SH.
Maybe you want to try a SSH bat? Just an idea I've been thinking of, as I feel the extra handle length does mean the handle sometimes hits my top hand wrist, but I think this may be due to the technique rather than anything else. I'm 5 8-9, and I imagine I'm near 5 10 if I'm wearing trainers and my insoles, so a SH bat shouldn't cause too many problems. Does anyone know if the bat manufacturers factor in shoes, or are their recommendations based on height without shoes?
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Maybe you want to try a SSH bat? Just an idea I've been thinking of, as I feel the extra handle length does mean the handle sometimes hits my top hand wrist, but I think this may be due to the technique rather than anything else. I'm 5 8-9, and I imagine I'm near 5 10 if I'm wearing trainers and my insoles, so a SH bat shouldn't cause too many problems.
Can't help on the shoes Chad, but if the handle is hitting your wrist you could try cutting the top of the handle off (leaving a bit so the binding doesn't come off the top).
A couple of guys at my club always do this as soon as they buy a new bat and they've not had a problem caused by doing it yet.
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Maybe you want to try a SSH bat? Just an idea I've been thinking of, as I feel the extra handle length does mean the handle sometimes hits my top hand wrist, but I think this may be due to the technique rather than anything else. I'm 5 8-9, and I imagine I'm near 5 10 if I'm wearing trainers and my insoles, so a SH bat shouldn't cause too many problems. Does anyone know if the bat manufacturers factor in shoes, or are their recommendations based on height without shoes?
I am pretty sure it is factored in without shoes. The height of shoes vary so much between brands that it would never give a customer the right measurement. To be honest I have never noticed any issue with standard SH blades, maybe I am just used to it.
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The height charts from the manufacturers are just guides. They aren't even consistent. The Gray Nics one we have on one wall is noticeably different to a GM one we have elsewhere.
As i said, they are guides, they can only advise on a suitable bat based on overall height. They do not factor in someones limb length. 2 kids at 5 foot tall may need totally different sized bats if one of them has really long legs and/or arms.
The best way to decide if a bat is the correct size for you is to get advice from a batmaker/retailer/coach like me (i'm not a batmaker but you know what i mean) when you are younger, parents appreciate this input as mostly they don't know much! As you get older into your late teens you can start to decide exactly what you like.
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I recall seeing a Harrow bat that MSR had on ebay a year or so ago which was 3.1, so you can occasionally find heavy or very heavy ones. They got one on ebay at the moment at 2.11 if someone was interested.
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The height charts from the manufacturers are just guides. They aren't even consistent. The Gray Nics one we have on one wall is noticeably different to a GM one we have elsewhere.
As i said, they are guides, they can only advise on a suitable bat based on overall height. They do not factor in someones limb length. 2 kids at 5 foot tall may need totally different sized bats if one of them has really long legs and/or arms.
The best way to decide if a bat is the correct size for you is to get advice from a batmaker/retailer/coach like me (i'm not a batmaker but you know what i mean) when you are younger, parents appreciate this input as mostly they don't know much! As you get older into your late teens you can start to decide exactly what you like.
Lol everything about me is short! Youth pads and gloves. Opps! Maybe I should look at harrow haha (say this after £350 spents on bats) opps
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The reason for the sharp difference in price between a harrow/academy/small mens is primarily due to the fact that these bats are made from the smaller trunks (hence most of these nats have a very tight grain structure).
I have been told this by GN Australia and 2 big retailers in Australia.
I had a GN XXVI in Small Mens and apart fort he handle thickness, I couldn't spot any other difference with the naked eye. There are few millimetres shaved off if you measure, but nothing significant.
For the price difference, I would not mind loosing a few millimetres and get a very top end bat.
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Just to show a side by side of a harrow and a SH i found this on the for sale section (Jake at Vita Cricket)
(http://i.imgur.com/WKbesv4l.png)
Note that the harrow is the same width as the SH.
So for example you can get a Custom Harrow bat with the same width for half the price.
Not bat really if your short.
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Just to show a side by side of a harrow and a SH i found this on the for sale section (Jake at Vita Cricket)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/WKbesv4l.png/[img]
Note that the harrow is the same width as the SH.
So for example you can get a Custom Harrow bat with the same width for half the price.
Not bat really if your short.
This is not the best example in all honesty. Both bats are Pakistani made and are good examples of showing how Pakistani batmakers can be a bit 'lax' when it comes to getting sizings right/consistent. Both bats are supposed to be SH and are both labelled as such.
Generally, harrow bats are narrower.
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This is not the best example in all honesty. Both bats are Pakistani made and are good examples of showing how Pakistani batmakers can be a bit 'lax' when it comes to getting sizings right/consistent. Both bats are supposed to be SH and are both labelled as such.
Generally, harrow bats are narrower.
Opps. Sorry
Would be great to have a harrow next to a SH. Would you be able to put the BS bats up? If I remember you guys had the same model in for both SH and harrow.
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@yvk3103 That is actually pretty interesting, makes sense sort of. I always figured whether you made up a Harrow bat or a SH, the cost was still basically the same ie one cleft and similar number of man hours etc. Given the differences in size are pretty small though I'd have thought you would have had to use a standard size cleft anyway, which meant the same amount of raw material.
Taking a guess here, but I assume by smaller trunks they are actually cutting different trees to use for harrow and other smaller size bats, and using different trees for SH and above.
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Opps. Sorry
Would be great to have a harrow next to a SH. Would you be able to put the BS bats up? If I remember you guys had the same model in for both SH and harrow.
(http://i.imgur.com/q966wdAl.png)
In terms of blade width, i measured both just above the toe tape:
SH is 108mm
Harrow is 103mm
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([url]http://i.imgur.com/q966wdAl.png[/url])
In terms of blade width, i measured both just above the toe tape:
SH is 108mm
Harrow is 103mm
Not much of a difference at all! Thanks Jake!
Weight probably is the major diff, however a shorty looking for a 2.8 should defo look towards these harrows
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My personal preference is to have a bat as wide as the laws will allow, to help stop the ball hitting the stumps, but everyone has their own feelings on this.
When going down the custom route, all of this discussion is fairly moot, you tell the batmaker what you want and they will make it for you: full width blade, handle length, whatever you want. Will you have to pay $$$ for a true custom made? Of course.
Off the shelf it will be cheaper to get a harrow, but you do have to weigh up that generally they will be lighter and also narrower.
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Yeah but just think when the ball just skims past your edge and you can think 'I'd have snicked that with a full width bat!'
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Yeah but just think when the ball just skims past your edge and you can think 'I'd have snicked that with a full width bat!'
but then it hits the off stump and you think with a full width bat the keeper may have dropped it (and first slip definitely would have).
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Yeah but just think when the ball just skims past your edge and you can think 'I'd have snicked that with a full width bat!'
That argument just doesn't work though, does it, because those balls you hit off-centre with an SH will surely become closer to edges on a Harrow?
I'll take a punt on one when I can afford to eat again, and let you all know how it goes.
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Reviving this from the dead a bit (thank you search function). Has anyone successfully made the switch from SH to Harrow? Interested to hear people's experience as I've been mucking about with a borrowed Harrow in the garden and it actually feels pretty nice in the hands.
Just considering it as I've always had problems with bat speed and playing the ball too late, plus I'm not the tallest so debating whether it might be worth a go now I've got plenty of spare time to practice with a smaller, lighter bat.
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Reviving this from the dead a bit (thank you search function). Has anyone successfully made the switch from SH to Harrow? Interested to hear people's experience as I've been mucking about with a borrowed Harrow in the garden and it actually feels pretty nice in the hands.
Just considering it as I've always had problems with bat speed and playing the ball too late, plus I'm not the tallest so debating whether it might be worth a go now I've got plenty of spare time to practice with a smaller, lighter bat.
I've thought along the same lines - but the narrower face width makes me a lil hesitant. Casually, if I find a fat n thick used harrow in round handle at 2.6, I will give it try.
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I'd thought much the same but when I actually measured how much difference 2mm on either side of the bat would make it's pretty negligible.
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I use a 2 8 Harrow with a men’s thickness handle from b3 and its great. Massive specs, feels like a wand and the face width difference is a quarter of an inch or 0.3cm each side - actually get a ruler out and look at that!
For me as a short (No Swearing Please) not having a bat I either occasionally hit the ground with or that whacks me on the wrist due to gripping it low down the handle (which happened a lot when I tried short blade long handle SH bats) was a revelation.
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I use a 2 8 Harrow with a men’s thickness handle from b3 and its great. Massive specs, feels like a wand and the face width difference is a quarter of an inch or 0.3cm each side - actually get a ruler out and look at that!
For me as a short (No Swearing Please) not having a bat I either occasionally hit the ground with or that whacks me on the wrist due to gripping it low down the handle (which happened a lot when I tried short blade long handle SH bats) was a revelation.
Mind me asking what height you are? Being a shade over 5ft8 I reckon I'm around the borderline.
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I am 5'6'' and have successfully used size-6 bats. They are great! They are a 6-3 configuration with regular SH blade width.
HEre are some details:
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=46757.msg753483#msg753483 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=46757.msg753483#msg753483)
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Mind me asking what height you are? Being a shade over 5ft8 I reckon I'm around the borderline.
5’8 on dating sites - more like 5 7 and a bit really :D
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This is not the best example in all honesty. Both bats are Pakistani made and are good examples of showing how Pakistani batmakers can be a bit 'lax' when it comes to getting sizings right/consistent. Both bats are supposed to be SH and are both labelled as such.
Generally, harrow bats are narrower.
Here is the funny bit: when I found my 6-3 bats (made in NZ by great bat makers) to be a little too light, I looked at a bat maker in UK to replicate them but at a heavier weight. I had bought other bats from this bat maker, and while their other bats remained performance free, who excelled at designing bats to spec. Well, performance free team couldn't get the specs (bat size length wise) right after two attempts. Yes. I have two bats sitting in my house that were not correctly made. They just didn't know what was the correct length of a size-6 bat!!! I gave them detailed instructions of all the measurements and they couldn't get it right. And, to this day those bats remain performance free.
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To be fair bat sizing between manufacturers does vary. I would always go by Lavers chart as that seems like the most comprehensive list
Well, that is news to me although my experience (evidently) would support your statement. :D
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^ Wow! I thought a standard meant same measurements across country lines. You live and learn.
There is an easy fix to this problem. Every standard could be suffixed with a country code to indicate their "standard". SS: SH-IN; LV: SH-NZ; CA: SH-PK; Performance Free: SH-PF (they get their own country code).
Or, we can have a true standard with some ISO certification.
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Think the standard varies between makers rather than by country though!
In a slight aside and back to the main discussion, got the measuring tape out and my favourite bat has a Harrow length blade and longer handle.
Overall size is SH but I don't grip right up the top of the handle which makes me think that Harrow bats may be the way to go if I can find them in an appropriate weight...
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Harrow length blade is only a half inch shorter. AKA L540 (well 546). Plenty of bats with those kind of blade lengths. Only reason to choose a Harrow is if you choke the handle and want the half inch shorter handle too. Or are a cheapskate for a light bat :D
Not going to lie, getting a G1 bat from a reputable source for sub £150 is quite appealing. I love the shorter blade but I don't use the top of the handle and I don't think that an extra few mm on the blade width is worth £100+.
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@Jimbo alternative options would be:
Small mens
Super short handle
Academy
(Whatever anyone else calls them)
Or you could chop some of the knob off an existing handle
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Not going to lie, getting a G1 bat from a reputable source for sub £150 is quite appealing. I love the shorter blade but I don't use the top of the handle and I don't think that an extra few mm on the blade width is worth £100+.
This is an advantage (price) but not all batmakers will make a 'big' harrow for junior prices - I think it depends on the type of cleft that has to be used.
Also big brand harrows are useless as they tend to be 2'2-2'4 and like toothpicks.
As I said, using a short blade long handle I found I gripped it low and the unusued part of the handle would hit me on the wrist when driving, which could actually be quite painful.
I don't think I'll ever go back to using a SH, although I may pay SH prices occasionally if the batmaker I want won't produce my spec at a junior price.
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Overall size is SH but I don't grip right up the top of the handle which makes me think that Harrow bats may be the way to go if I can find them in an appropriate weight...
Weight is a deciding factor which led me back to heavier SH bats. But I hold it low, at the level of the size-6 mark. With the right shape, it worked for me.
What's your ideal weight? Keely's G2-G3 pricing is reasonable and I am sure they can make you a shorter blade bat.
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Weight is a deciding factor which led me back to heavier SH bats. But I hold it low, at the level of the size-6 mark. With the right shape, it worked for me.
What's your ideal weight? Keely's G2-G3 pricing is reasonable and I am sure they can make you a shorter blade bat.
I've used between 2lb 7oz and 2lbs 10oz, wanting to try something on the lighter side so 2lbs 6/7oz is probably about right.
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^ It should be do-able. A quick search led to some Harrow size bats for under GBP135/150, not sure about the weight but you can always call and check.
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I am 5ft 4 inches; ran an experiment - bought an MSR SH 2lb 11oz, chopped off 1 inches from the bottom, cut off the knob from the handle leaving a few millimeter so that the binding does not get undone. The length came to 80.5 cm, weight came to 2lb 9oz - a size 6 with the width of a full bat. Played for a half a season, felt amazing as I still got the heavy punch. Driving was easier as it was not catching my wrist and I could grip the top at my waist height. I was pleased and did the same to my GM Neon - the middle came down to middle - even sweeter. I have played a few longer innings now with them and I am so glad that I took the plunge.