Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: CrickFreak on October 07, 2013, 08:11:00 PM
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As the subject says - a dumb question, but cant find an answer to it. :D
I read here and other places that asian bats ping better because they are lightly pressed. and break faster for the same reason.
Question - Is it true? if yes, why? I thought harder the playing surface, the better the ping and thats why bat needs knocking before its used.
I understand knocking the edges can press the fibers which can then withstand the impact and prevent damage. but why knock the sweet spot?
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As the subject says - a dumb question, but cant find an answer to it. :D
I read here and other places that asian bats ping better because they are lightly pressed. and break faster for the same reason.
Question - Is it true? if yes, why? I thought harder the playing surface, the better the ping and thats why bat needs knocking before its used.
I understand knocking the edges can press the fibers which can then withstand the impact and prevent damage. but why knock the sweet spot?
Not too dumb a question. ;) To be honest, I think Asian bats tend to play well because they are slightly drier, because the climate there is drier. I wouldn't say they play better than bats made in England though! You get some duds and some very special bats from both parts of the world. Also, I think that the talk of Asian bats being lighter pressed isn't really always the case, some are pressed pretty hard! I find that most Asian bats just tend to go really well from ball one, that might be why folk say they ping better.
You should knock the sweetspot as that also prevents damage to the sweetspot. I generally knock mine in lightly around that area, and finish it off with some throwdowns. I'm also convinced that if you don't knock in the middle properly, there's an increased chance of delamination. :-[
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So the notion that light pressed bats are better is false.
This also raises another question - if someone orders a custom bat and ask for hard pressed bat than normal will get a bat which will perform from day one?
I doubt if the pros spend hrs knocking their bat like us.
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Such a complex area, there are so many talking points. I'm far from the best person to comment but I'll throw my thoughts in.
Each individual piece of wood has an optimum pressing point, the perfect amount to get the best performance out of the bat it is made into. 'Ping' is generated from the natural elasticity in the willow fibres, rebounding the ball back from whence it came. Pressing helps to 'toughen up' the wood making it more resilient, whilst maintaining that springy pingy loveliness we all crave. There are some interesting side points here though. A quick example is butterfly stain. A butterfly stain is much harder and less elastic than normal grain structure, and if you have ever used a bat with a butterfly, you"ll know the ball rockets off this harder area.
A harder bat may take a while to get going, but should perform just as well once it's been used for a while. Not a fan Of the term 'opening up' as the true meaning of this is when the grains start to break apart and eventually the face slides off, the sign of a bat at the peak of its powers.
Generally Laver and Wood bats are considered quite hard, mine certainly felt it at first, but the more I use it, the better it gets. Are bats pressed harder for better durability? Who knows.
Asian (especially Pakistani) made bats are drier, definitely. They aren't necessarily softer. The generally perform well instantly but may not last as long due to the dry/brittleness.
Knocking in is important to protect the wood from the damage a new ball can cause when batting. The most vulnerable areas are the edges and toe, but the middle Can be damaged by a prominent seam too. A scuff sheet is handy to help protect the middle of the bat if you don't wish to knock it in. Knocking in also helps to get a harder bat going, see my previous point about the more you use one, the better it gets.
Notice I use words like 'May' a lot, because there are no hard and fast rules here. Willow is a natural product.
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Such a complex area, there are so many talking points. I'm far from the best person to comment but I'll throw my thoughts in.
Each individual piece of wood has an optimum pressing point, the perfect amount to get the best performance out of the bat it is made into. 'Ping' is generated from the natural elasticity in the willow fibres, rebounding the ball back from whence it came. Pressing helps to 'toughen up' the wood making it more resilient, whilst maintaining that springy pingy loveliness we all crave. There are some interesting side points here though. A quick example is butterfly stain. A butterfly stain is much harder and less elastic than normal grain structure, and if you have ever used a bat with a butterfly, you"ll know the ball rockets off this harder area.
A harder bat may take a while to get going, but should perform just as well once it's been used for a while. Not a fan Of the term 'opening up' as the true meaning of this is when the grains start to break apart and eventually the face slides off, the sign of a bat at the peak of its powers.
Generally Laver and Wood bats are considered quite hard, mine certainly felt it at first, but the more I use it, the better it gets. Are bats pressed harder for better durability? Who knows.
Asian (especially Pakistani) made bats are drier, definitely. They aren't necessarily softer. The generally perform well instantly but may not last as long due to the dry/brittleness.
Knocking in is important to protect the wood from the damage a new ball can cause when batting. The most vulnerable areas are the edges and toe, but the middle Can be damaged by a prominent seam too. A scuff sheet is handy to help protect the middle of the bat if you don't wish to knock it in. Knocking in also helps to get a harder bat going, see my previous point about the more you use one, the better it gets.
Notice I use words like 'May' a lot, because there are no hard and fast rules here. Willow is a natural product.
This may sound abit silly but i remember Sachin using a bat that looked truly awful very dark and almost black in the centre is that what you mean by the face slipping as he still used it to great effect and in fact scored his 100th 100 with it against South Africa i believe.
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Can't really find a good enough picture to tell. But a bat that is really opened up will resemble crazy paving. First of all you may notice it looks like the grains are separating from each other somewhat, then cracks will start to run parallel alongside the grains and over time will begin to also occur at 90 degrees to the grain, causing the crazy paving effect. Further use of the bat (which will really be performing well at this stage, again this is all generalisation, wood is wood and nothing is guaranteed) will see these cracks begin to affect the structure of the bat itself.
It's like a mass delamination I suppose, the top few millimetres of the face of the bat will just slide off.
Of course, most bats don't ever get to this point, as people stop using them long before this would happen, either through breaking the handle/toe or from buying/using a new/different bat.
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Something like this?
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/706671578_o.jpg)
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Something like this?
([url]http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/2/4/6/3/9/9/webimg/706671578_o.jpg[/url])
That would be the image I have been searching for :)
Kept getting a lot of baseball bats on google image, even when I specified 'cricket'
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I remembered I'd seen this on a bat care guide, so I searched for "cricket bat care guide" :)
I had a CA bat once and the middle has almost disintegrated, yet still performed very very well
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Good thread.
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(https://image-prod.iol.co.za/16x9/800/Sachin-Tendulkar-used-his-favourite-Vampire-bat-andquot-a-run-down-taped-up-willow-in-need-of-TLC-andquot-to-score-his-50th-century?source=https://xlibris.public.prod.oc.inl.infomaker.io:8443/opencontent/objects/58269b72-2af5-53ff-861d-850571fa0e4b)
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Crawley, Pope and Foakes were all using visibly 'opened up' Gray Nics bats during the recent Test series. At least two have moved on now though, I think.
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* No 'were they really Gray Nics?' stuff, please!
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To be fair the GN lad was making bats at headingly that weren’t for sale and they were all monsters. Salt had a giant butterfly that I was very keen to make off with.
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Salt was also using a gray Nics with SS edge stamps in the recent Holland games
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I noticed SS edge stamps on Broad's Adidas during the Test series.
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To be fair the GN lad was making bats at headingly that weren’t for sale and they were all monsters. Salt had a giant butterfly that I was very keen to make off with.
The GN stall at Headingley had a £300+ 'for sale' bat that apoeared to have a butterfly stain protrouding from the sides of the sticker on the back. I was going to take a photo, but managed to convince/kid myself that I wasn't really that tragic.
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The vast majority of bats are Asian made so depends what your talking about. Do you mean SS and SG to name a couple vs GN and Kook that are not Asian bats but are nearly all made there!
SS and SG are in my experience pressed very well from the off and do leave indents easily if you use straight off. GN are very good, kook can be a bit hit and miss. This is a very small comparison of Indian made bats and I imagine a lot of the sticker brands use Asian made bats as well. Generally I don’t feel you get many planks these days
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My interest this thread was more about the 'opening up' side. But is it true that a well-pressed bat is one that 'leaves indents' when new?
A lot of people talk about well-pressed bats. But surely all bats are 'pressed' about the same after hitting several thousand balls? (No, I don't mean they all perform the same.)
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'Opening up' as Jake mentioned, was more a term for the grains separating when the bat is well used. It's now become a term used for when a bat starts to feel more pingy i suppose. However, any bat will generally only get better the more its played with and will feel its best just before it delaminates i feel. Maybe its the face getting better, maybe it's the handles softening a little.
In terms of pressing, the batmakers I've spoken to believe there is no such thing as 'soft pressed' or 'pro pressed', just under pressed. I see a lot of new bats coming through the workshop for repair with big indentations and cracks. Maybe because they're underpressed, or probably more because they're overdried and underpressed to achieve 'big specs'. Either way, imo neither is good for the longevity of the bat.
I've also had people saying they've knocked their bats in for 5 - 6 hours and are still seeing big indentations. Surely that's not what anyone wants! 😆
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This is a great thread to read and really informative. I still struggle now with the whole "knocking in " process and it still feels a little an element of trial and error with it with potentially big consequences! My eldest son has just bought a new bat (will post about it soon) where he opted to buy locally and pick it out rather than buy via online - but I struggle to answer his question of how long to knock it in. But I guess it comes back to the amount of pressing its had and how dry etc. it is. He's spent many hours on it and first net with soft balls has seen a couple of indentations.
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Biggest difference I found with knocking in was getting a proper heavy mallet instead of the GM/GN generic ones. Speeds it up massively and actually gets the bat knocked in.
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Isn't knocking-in just continuation of pressing? Which is where my point about saying a bat is 'well-pressed' after it has hit thousands of balls being a nonsense came from.
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Biggest difference I found with knocking in was getting a proper heavy mallet instead of the GM/GN generic ones. Speeds it up massively and actually gets the bat knocked in.
Do you have any recommendations? I'm looking for a better mallet as I am using a standard GM one currently.
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G'day Bungle,
The best mallet I own is a Lignum Vitae mallet from Elviar's Shed. Its the godzilla of mallets.
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Do you have any recommendations? I'm looking for a better mallet as I am using a standard GM one currently.
They're not cheap, but these are phenomenal - https://elviar.co.uk/product-category/knocking-in-mallets/
Really is a case of you get what you pay for. If that's out of budget, the chunky GN mallet is better than the standard efforts.
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Second the abv. Workout for the arms too! 😆
In terms of indentations on new bats. Take a look at this from an Instagram post i saw.....
(https://i.postimg.cc/FFD80jMs/20220715-105919.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c6tFS81V)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pdb6PkFk/20220715-105947.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wd8nnGSJ)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mgFnxKtt/20220715-110021.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5XbgL75V)
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbyyHspB/20220715-110039.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/JGbKyVkx)
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Second the abv. Workout for the arms too! 😆
In terms of indentations on new bats. Take a look at this from an Instagram post i saw.....
Someone went crazy with a Nail Hammer?
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It's Just Cricket back from the dead and knocking bats in again?
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Someone went crazy with a Nail Hammer?
No, this is some random small Indian company and this is a one of their new bats. This is a partly the issue with modern bats, much drier and you see much more indentations
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No, this is some random small Indian company and this is a one of their new bats. This is a partly the issue with modern bats, much drier and you see much more indentations
should we blame Global Warming :D :D