Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Companies => Off-the-shelf companies => Topic started by: himanshuvohra on October 08, 2013, 08:41:30 AM
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HEY FELLOW board members
Been on this forum for quite sometime now, read and participated in many topics.
But one thing which really revolves my mind is why INDIAN bats are considered inferior as compared to ENGLISH bats by many of our friends on this forum.
I have used a lot of INDIAN bats from the top batmakers in india like SM, SS, SG and BDM(never tried BAS though) and i have been very much satisfied with the quality of bats, and i have used only 2 english bats(GN POWERBOW EXTREME and GN maverick) and what i observed was that they are at par with INDIAN bats if not less.
and the price at which the indian bats come(IN INDIA), i can say it makes a lot of difference.
so, why this hype
please enlighten me....
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I think the key point of difference is consistency - I have seen some superb bats from SS and BAS, and to a lesser extent from SG, and likewise from companies such as Kookaburra and Slazenger who have most or all of their bats made in India. But I have also seen some shockingly bad ones; in my opinion, quite a high percentage of the same. In contract, with a UK batmaker, you get a more consistent approach and better quality control - as well as the benefits of a boutique service from many.
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You can get wonderful bats from Aus, NZ, India, Pakistan, UK and a number of other countries - in the past the quality of handles and the finishing on the bats have been the difference, but the Asian manufacturers have really upped their game in the last few years.
I don't think there is much of a difference - other than the generic Asian bats are frequently dried more than non Asian bats so appear bigger and don't last quite as long.
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I think the key point of difference is consistency - I have seen some superb bats from SS and BAS, and to a lesser extent from SG, and likewise from companies such as Kookaburra and Slazenger who have most or all of their bats made in India. But I have also seen some shockingly bad ones; in my opinion, quite a high percentage of the same. In contract, with a UK batmaker, you get a more consistent approach and better quality control - as well as the benefits of a boutique service from many.
^Well summarised tbf.
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I think it is consistency of pressing and the materials used!
Most of the handles from the Asian makers have improved over the lady couple of years (Pakistan bat handles in particular used to be shocking!!) I have used some amazing BAS and SS bats which have compared well to any UK brand!
But when I look at the consistency of the quality from Salix, Redback, black cat,H4L, aldred, choice, etc then I realise that some of the Asian brands still need to do some work to get the same consistency and quality!!
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I find Indian , Pakistani made cricket bats true to the JS Wright grading system whereas the English made are graded slightly less stringent especially grade 1/2 and lower. I find the standard of pressing is fairly uniform in the U.K . Asian bats are concaved to the maximum mostly with the standard shape being low middle with not much alternatives. There are some exceptions in both cases. The attention to detail is simply superb with English made bats.
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For me, although it may not have an impact on the finished product, I find I am swayed by even something like the differences in factories.
Watching the Ishan video and all their willow is drying in the sun on the factory roof tops, where as a brand like Gunn and Moore it is shaded and moisture is monitored to stop over drying.
Working conditions (which I understand are cultural differences) but to me a man working at a work bench with the bat clamped securely seems a higher quality control than someone sat on the floor supporting the bat in their bare feet!
Also on the Ishan factory video, once a bat is made it get thrown into a pile of bats (literally) rather than videos over here which shows the bat placed upright in a rack. I want my willow to be treated like a freshly minted bar of gold rather than like a tv remote being tossed onto the sofa!
These may not effect performance, but it has put a negative image on how I view Asian bats being made and looked after.
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I have used a lot of INDIAN bats from the top batmakers in india like SM, SS, SG and BDM(never tried BAS though) and i have been very much satisfied with the quality of bats, and i have used only 2 english bats(GN POWERBOW EXTREME and GN maverick) and what i observed was that they are at par with INDIAN bats if not less.
and the price at which the indian bats come(IN INDIA), i can say it makes a lot of difference.
So, depending on what sort of Maverick it was, it is actually highly unlikely you have used an English made bat.
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Very little difference now IMO
SS and BAS compare with many of the top batmakers in the UK.
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a decent BAS or SS cost the same as a bat off the forum sponsors on here so i would hope they are the same quality. different story if you can source them RELIABLY every time direct from the factory to guarantee the quality but i doubt it.
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So, depending on what sort of Maverick it was, it is actually highly unlikely you have used an English made bat.
it was a maverick colossus bat my brother baught from UK, i am not saying that it was a bad bat, but what i mean is that when compared to TON bats which are way cheaper, they dont offer anything other then brand name.
Maverick colossus would cost somewhere between 150-170 GBP and the TON i use is way cheaper then that....even SS TON LE costs lesser then these medium level bats.
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a decent BAS or SS cost the same as a bat off the forum sponsors on here so i would hope they are the same quality. different story if you can source them RELIABLY every time direct from the factory to guarantee the quality but i doubt it.
But the fact is top of the line SS bat(TON RESERVE EDITION at present) will cost not more then 200-210 GBP in india at present and there is hardly any sponsor who offers pro grade willow at this price.....
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TON or SS LE is the best value bat you will buy anywhere period
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TON or SS LE is the best value bat you will buy anywhere period
i totally agree with you....
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i totally agree with you....
So how much are the SS/TON LE bats?
As I would say, getting Roger at Solitaire to make you a bat for £125 or £150 is extremely hard to beat. The quality of his pressing is immense and I know that he has a new set of digital scales...
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Made in India Bats are of very good quality. Specially if you buy the top 2/3 (like SS Gladiator,BAS Shadow etc )of any brand. These are top quality and at par with UK made bats.
Kookaburra, GN, TON, Puma and many other companies have bats that are being produced in India and then sold back in UK. These companies would not survive if there Made in India bats were not good.
You would see the difference when you get a bat that is Made in UK by one of these top batmakers like TK, Matt and many more.
The pressing of wood, the finishing quality, less concaving - there are some fine differences. Obviously you pay top dollar for the higher quality and higher cost of labor. I am sure there are equally good craftsmen in India who make top bats for International players but i don't think we get access to those directly.
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So how much are the SS/TON LE bats?
As I would say, getting Roger at Solitaire to make you a bat for £125 or £150 is extremely hard to beat. The quality of his pressing is immense and I know that he has a new set of digital scales...
Hmm....SS/TON LE bats at present will cost around 110-120 GBP in india.....and i would have seen around 10-12 LE bats by now and all of them have been big guns.....
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I'd like to see someone from Uzi Sports have some input into this as they hand select a lot of bats from a number of sources.
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So on Uzi Sports a TON LE is £240 which puts it in the same price range as top end bats here.
Have a colleage going to India next year, are there implications on buying a bat out there and bringing it home?
Or to rephrase that question is it easy to get it past customs a) without having to pay import and b) without them drilling holes in it searching for drugs
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I reckon the implication is how much do you trust the judgement of your mate?
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Hmm....SS/TON LE bats at present will cost around 110-120 GBP in india.....and i would have seen around 10-12 LE bats by now and all of them have been big guns.....
Okay, well I expect these bats to be about double the price in the UK at least.
What is their after sales service like? For example, if your bat gets damaged prematurely?
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Out of interest, are their smaller custom companies in India to similar scales of the forum sponsors?
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Hmm....SS/TON LE bats at present will cost around 110-120 GBP in india.....and i would have seen around 10-12 LE bats by now and all of them have been big guns.....
And therein is the point. Very few people in the UK can buy these bats at this price point. Even looking at the Indian websites, the top end bats seem to be around £175 which, while it is sill relatively cheap, it's not the quoted numbers.
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My thinking is that I will try to use the best bat suited to me that I can afford.
I do have several SS bats (LE, Gladiator and one from an IPL player) plus other Asian bats. As good as they are (the SS LE is the least impressive of the 3 mentioned, but still a very good bat!) I am still always going to use the best bat that gets me runs! So if it is a choice between the SS LE (even if it did cost me £120) and an AJK (which for example, could be purchased for £350) then I will always use the better quality, better pickup, and better performing bat. i realise that the SS LE may cost less but I would never use a bat purchased purely on value and performance for money alone!
Now I realise that some people have a very strict budget where value for their £ is vital!
But if my budget was strictly £120, then I would patiently see what (almost new) bats are in the 'For Sale' section. For example, I picked up a Charlie French Premier Cru which was barely knocked in for £110 and it went like absolutel stink. Also picked up an Adidas Incurza Elite and a BAS Bow T20 for £100 which both went like rockets and were amongst the best bats I have held!
So trying to state that an SS LE is the best value bat you can pick up anywhere, is quite frankly, very blinkered thinking!
It's like saying that the Ford Fiesta or Focus is the best value car you can pick up anywhere! In some ways, it may have some truth in it and there is no denying that they do offer a lot for the money! But who will put it top of their 'most wanted' list?
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TON or SS LE is the best value bat you will buy anywhere period
Going to disagree here. Our forum sponsors all offer great quality for a great price, and there are done great quality lower grade bats off the shelf if you look around.
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I would say quality of a bat is inversely proportional to the no. of bats produced. We can get many good Asian bats when they are handpicked or if we are lucky. %age of good bats from the no. of bats being made in Asian made ones will be relatively lower than the English made ones simply because the English bat makers produce relatively lesser nos. I believe the Asian bats are dryer because of the weather in the subcontinent, and if they reduce the no. of bats produced per year I am confident that they can put in more efforts in quality control and make better finished ones.
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So trying to state that an SS LE is the best value bat you can pick up anywhere, is quite frankly, very blinkered thinking!
It's like saying that the Ford Fiesta or Focus is the best value car you can pick up anywhere! In some ways, it may have some truth in it and there is no denying that they do offer a lot for the money! But who will put it top of their 'most wanted' list?
Having bought a 1999 fiesta nearly 2 years ago they're reasonably good, has anyone got an SS LE that's been dented and thrashed by a few previous owners so I can compare notes on the two haha :D
And if the SS LE is available for £120 it would take a lot for me to consider it better value than my Chase 150 finback for the same price. That's just my opinion though, I'm sure you could ask 100 people what the best value bat is and get at least 100 different answers.
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So on Uzi Sports a TON LE is £240 which puts it in the same price range as top end bats here.
Have a colleage going to India next year, are there implications on buying a bat out there and bringing it home?
Or to rephrase that question is it easy to get it past customs a) without having to pay import and b) without them drilling holes in it searching for drugs
I have a very limited knowledge about the customs but my elder brother braught a GN bat from UK without any import duties or drills.........and as i have read many people from UK order sticks from India, so it should be ok.....
and if your colleague needs any help regarding the shops i can help with that....:-)
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Out of interest, are their smaller custom companies in India to similar scales of the forum sponsors?
Yes there are some companies
for eg
RNS Larsons: used to be a decent brand a few years ago, but now they are more into customs....as far as my knowledge goes, they make a top grade stick for 90-100 GBP they have it on their website too....
KayGee sports: One of my favourites, lovely people, great knowledge and they would do the same in 100-120 GBP range
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My thinking is that I will try to use the best bat suited to me that I can afford.
I do have several SS bats (LE, Gladiator and one from an IPL player) plus other Asian bats. As good as they are (the SS LE is the least impressive of the 3 mentioned, but still a very good bat!) I am still always going to use the best bat that gets me runs! So if it is a choice between the SS LE (even if it did cost me £120) and an AJK (which for example, could be purchased for £350) then I will always use the better quality, better pickup, and better performing bat. i realise that the SS LE may cost less but I would never use a bat purchased purely on value and performance for money alone!
Now I realise that some people have a very strict budget where value for their £ is vital!
But if my budget was strictly £120, then I would patiently see what (almost new) bats are in the 'For Sale' section. For example, I picked up a Charlie French Premier Cru which was barely knocked in for £110 and it went like absolutel stink. Also picked up an Adidas Incurza Elite and a BAS Bow T20 for £100 which both went like rockets and were amongst the best bats I have held!
So trying to state that an SS LE is the best value bat you can pick up anywhere, is quite frankly, very blinkered thinking!
It's like saying that the Ford Fiesta or Focus is the best value car you can pick up anywhere! In some ways, it may have some truth in it and there is no denying that they do offer a lot for the money! But who will put it top of their 'most wanted' list?
You have a valid point bud, but what i am talking about is 350 GBP is a big amount for me as it is close to 35000 rupees which is still a huge sum in India...
and the point is i have hardly seen any sponsor quoting 120 GBP for a bat....
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If somebody is carrying the bat in his/her luggage it shouldn't be charged as it would be a personal item. Few of my mates brought complete kits from India as their luggage, it shouldn't be drilled (though maybe inspected). In rare cases, if custom officials ask for cost of the bat, it can be mentioned as very low.
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You have a valid point bud, but what i am talking about is 350 GBP is a big amount for me as it is close to 35000 rupees which is still a huge sum in India...
and the point is i have hardly seen any sponsor quoting 120 GBP for a bat....
No one needs to spend 350 on a bat - it's a silly comparison.
The same networks required in India to acquire these 'pro level' sticks at £120 would get you a similar bat with the same level of contacts over here for a similar price. Most of the stories I hear of the super SS bats are bought back from people who have 'uncles' that work in the factory or know Mr Ihsan himself.
Really this is just plain old nationalism BS. A good bat can be found from anywhere. As mentioned before, I'm a lot more comfortable with the quality control from UK manufacturers. Plus the thought of growing something here, sending it all the way over 'there', (paying the actual shaver a pittance) then sending it all the way back, seems quite bonkers!
Finally, and I guess the UK companies may agree here, but the prices from the small shaver scene is a fair price - you'll hear of few that retire millionaires. Scarcity off the willow, risk of the process not being the premium bat it should be, and not to mention man hours required to produce the end product come close to justifying the price. And I'm happier knowing I'm supporting the UK industry.
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everyone has an inherent bias. and on this forum, the majority of members are from UK, so honestly that should answer your question.
since every bat is unique and different, there is no way to gauge "value for money" (in case of cars, you can have standardised tests).
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No one needs to spend 350 on a bat - it's a silly comparison.
The same networks required in India to acquire these 'pro level' sticks at £120 would get you a similar bat with the same level of contacts over here for a similar price. Most of the stories I hear of the super SS bats are bought back from people who have 'uncles' that work in the factory or know Mr Ihsan himself.
Really this is just plain old nationalism BS. A good bat can be found from anywhere. As mentioned before, I'm a lot more comfortable with the quality control from UK manufacturers. Plus the thought of growing something here, sending it all the way over 'there', (paying the actual shaver a pittance) then sending it all the way back, seems quite bonkers!
Finally, and I guess the UK companies may agree here, but the prices from the small shaver scene is a fair price - you'll hear of few that retire millionaires. Scarcity off the willow, risk of the process not being the premium bat it should be, and not to mention man hours required to produce the end product come close to justifying the price. And I'm happier knowing I'm supporting the UK industry.
There's an obvious and amusing contracting claim to your post. Asian bats have their pros and cons to English bats but it's very clear that Asian bats are a lot cheaper. You can import an Asian bat that will cost £150 or less and the English one will be £250+ for its equivalent. Yes there are differences, I've owned both English and Asian bats but these days I prefer Asian ones because English bats cost far more than they used to. Even with the forum bat makers undercuting the big English makers there is a big difference in price.
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TON or SS LE is the best value bat you will buy anywhere period
The term LE has become a joke in recent times tbh. Nice bats I agree but the term LE is misleading. I can't say quality is much different but Indian bats have very poor resale value. For example I paid 135 for my GM 808 few years ago and it still fetched me 80 after a few seasons use whereas my SS Ton LE sold for only 90 and it was as new (cost me 160).
You do need a bit of luck and contacts when buying in India not just to save money but most importantly to ensure you are getting a genuine product. Even the biggest shops sell fake stickered bats so it is hard to trust them.
I have also found SG to be much better value and long lasting.
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The term LE obviously means Limited Edition and the SS LE is a limited edition bat! They only make 10,000 per year! ;)
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The stickers are often different
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The term LE obviously means Limited Edition and the SS LE is a limited edition bat! They only make 10,000 per year! ;)
It's like the limited edition corsa, of which they make and sell more than standard corsas........
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To throw a spanner in the works and i do support Uk made bats Pakistan i think have slightly better bats than India and alot better value.
Uk bats are priced as such by a few factors like overheads and profit margins.
Indian made bats are getting more expensive at a individual and trade level and the quality like England is varible and the really cheap bats are either samples and the after care if bought direct from India for cheaper it kind of sold as seen and any issues it is kind of tuff.
Pakistan bats offer good value if there sought from a Uk source you pay higher yet get the guarantees and support you have a issue.
If you buy direct once again they will be cheaper but your run the same risk.
I have had many bats from all the countries and they have been all good but if you have not got loads of money like me to be throwing at bats then i possibly would go for the guarantee and after-sales care but you do actually pay for that care bit like insurance..
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The term LE obviously means Limited Edition and the SS LE is a limited edition bat! They only make 10,000 per year! ;)
What and GM and GN do not do the same.....
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To throw a spanner in the works and i do support Uk made bats Pakistan i think have slightly better bats than India and alot better value.
Uk bats are priced as such by a few factors like overheads and profit margins.
Indian made bats are getting more expensive at a individual and trade level and the quality like England is varible and the really cheap bats are either samples and the after care if bought direct from India for cheaper it kind of sold as seen and any issues it is kind of tuff.
Pakistan bats offer good value if there sought from a Uk source you pay higher yet get the guarantees and support you have a issue.
If you buy direct once again they will be cheaper but your run the same risk.
I have had many bats from all the countries and they have been all good but if you have not got loads of money like me to be throwing at bats then i possibly would go for the guarantee and after-sales care but you do actually pay for that care bit like insurance..
Pakistani market is very similar. If you can source a genuine then good else it too is full of fakes and tats. If you are buying from a reputable UK source then their after care and guarantee etc. should be the same really whether you buy a CA or SS.
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Yes that's was what I was trying to say.
It is about source I know a few in India and know a man who can get great bats in Pakistan as well as other areas.
For me it about trust and if your after a bargain asking the right people