Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: Buzz on November 20, 2014, 05:55:55 PM
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Does his face not fit?
Has he slept with the skippers mrs?
does he hit the ball too hard/far
does his batting make the Skipper look bad?
answers below please.
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Because the ECB are not really cricket minded.. they are city businessmen and career managers. They don't care a jot about the future of the game.
His style is risky and England are risk averse.
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Because they are stuck in the past.
That's the politest reply I could put, i deleted a few.
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Does his face not fit?
Has he slept with the skippers mrs?
does he hit the ball too hard/far
does his batting make the Skipper look bad?
answers below please.
lol After Flintof Peterson Butler he is the attacking batsman that i d love to watch toniking bowlers brutaly in England team, lol
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it just a ridiculous situation especially after the good season he has had.
im guessing he has probably upset somebody somewhere
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Because, if he is picked, Eng VS WI matches will never finish due to bad weather, Gayle Storm and Hale (Hail) Storm
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Because we aren't allowed to attack early doors
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He's outspoken and has a sleeve tattoo!
They seem to prefer yes men who look like choir boys, so it's probably that his face doesn't fit...
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Actually I can refute most of the above we played Denham cc this year where alex started-his dad still plays there-and I got chatting with them and he's a lovely bloke who still goes on their golf days when he can and presents some awards for the colts!!!
But of course the bottom line is hales should be in before Cook
You pick the captain from those available(the Aussie way)
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Here is what I think they should have done....
Cook will play in the ODI's & WC, like it or not, as he is the captain/stubborn. So the problem is who to pick? Moeen or Hales? they should have left cook out of the first warm-up game and let both Hales and Moeen play, then who ever did better would have played the 2nd warm-up game with cook as the other opener etc etc...
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Tbf it's only a warm up game but it does sound like that's their strategy for the SL series. Saw an interesting stay on Twitter, the last time Ali opened for England it was with limb who out scored Ali in all 3 games but hasn't played for England since.
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The ECB suffers from the same condition that afflicts other long standing institutions - the entrenched old guard hold sway and make decisions that whilst politically/financially savvy are detrimental to the core ethos and aim of the business at hand. In this case the aim is to win.
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Cook as much as I admire him(I may be in a minority) is a square peg in a round hole in one day cricket
I've nearly totally lost faith in the ECB
If they have any intention at all of looking after one of our best players they should of left him at home and got someone else to skipper-thats looking after his long term interests(tests) and given the place to a more suited player-hales.
The ECB are clueless.
The media will be straight onto Cook if he does not get big runs straight away
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I really don't care any more. It's like backing a Weston donkey in the Melbourne Cup. A waste of time and effort.
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Because in ODI cricket since the introduction of the latest set of playing conditions. the main focus is wickets in hand for the final 10 overs.
Example batting plan for a OD game.
After 10- 50/1 (5s)
@ 35 overs - 190/3 (5.5s)
@ 40 overs - 220/4 (6s)
@ 50 overs - 280/ (6s)
= a score of 280! And note thats only going at 6s in the last 15 overs!
Now i know that is all well and good on paper but that is the method being adopted by sides. Big partnership early at a steady rate with accumulation then a late onslaught using the T20 hitters late in the order.
As for the bowling sides they see the extra fielders being bought up in the powerplay as their chance to get wickets as the pressure is on the batter to find the gaps.
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As a test batsmen Cook is class and is every chance he will go on to be one of the greats of the games in the amount of runs he will score. His record already makes him world class.
But in one day cricket I'm afraid he is just not the modern type of player at the top of the innings, explosive, dynamic and a player bowlers don't want to bowl too. His game is just not set up too play international 1 day cricket. But you can't drop your skipper end of. He appears to have the full backing of the 10 men he leads on to the field as well. Hales should open the batting with Lumb in my mind but it won't happen unfortunately.
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I think the loss of swann has also played a part. They dont have a real attacking spinner only Tredwell (who i dont really think is international quality despite having decent stats) who is more of a containing spinner IMO. This means they have to try and share the spin duties around with Ali and no doubt Root. Not such a bad strategy for Sri Lankan conditions but for the World Cup in Austrailia it doesnt strike me as the best strategy.
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It's probably a good job they had the extra bowler. Jordan was apparently shocking. 25 runs of 2 overs last I looked!
Still would rather watch hales open instead of cook. Keep all up there then
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I think the loss of swann has also played a part. They dont have a real attacking spinner only Tredwell (who i dont really think is international quality despite having decent stats) who is more of a containing spinner IMO. This means they have to try and share the spin duties around with Ali and no doubt Root. Not such a bad strategy for Sri Lankan conditions but for the World Cup in Austrailia it doesnt strike me as the best strategy.
Swan didn't really get much from the Aussie conditions anyway.
The problem also was Swann could slap a quick 20 where I doubt Tredwell can. Although it is not his job to bat, every little counts.
Rashid can bat and experienced in batting and bowling in Aussie conditions.
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Yep good point with swann in aussie conditions, was talking in more general terms that theyve lost an attacking bowler and without a real replacement they are making up for it with 2 possibly 3 members of the team.
You'd hope with a 7 game series they would try and mix things up and try a few combinations out. However knowing England they'll pick the same team for all 7 and then admit the formula isnt working
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Moeen's going along at the Hales-like lick of 36 off 14
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Go on Moeen!
Anyone any idea why SL only batted 43 overs?
I think we need to make it clear that no one has anything against Moeen opening the batting, the problem lies with Cook opening the batting instead of Hales! Hales and Ali would work very well together I recon.
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It was reduced over due to a delay from what i saw on twitter when i woke up
Ali is smashing it - always said he should play over Hales! :)
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Well same as a cricket meeting i went to last night with a senior English county and one of the current selectors. Every face in the room was a grey haired 60 year old upper middle class probably very well meaning but was so out of touch with reality its not true. This lot run English cricket and it wont change in the immediate future because they are running it for themselves and there mates
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I think the bigger issue is that England are playing warm up games in conditions totally alien to what they will experience in the WC. Possibly, with NZ in the middle east and Aus playing SA, they couldn't get games there...
They are playing the tri-nations tournament next up - I would think (hope) that Hales will have a chance then, or preferably sooner. He has gone big in the big bash there, but there is the thought that Hales struggled against India (spin) in the ODI series in the summer.
England selectors are traditionally conservative and risk averse. They possibly haven't seen enough from Hales in ODIs in the summer to put him in against spin-friendly conditions and/or without a spin threat, they want to have six capable bowlers (4+Bopara+Moeen). I accept that Cook shouldn't be in on form, but suggesting dropping him isn't gonna happen - we should speculate on who will play with him in the side, otherwise its fantasy cricket selection.
I think Bell's under the bigger pressure. If he struggles against SL, we may well see Hales in for Bell and Moeen at 3. Weird that Bell averages 45 since opening and was dropped down for Hales, yet stays at 3 when Moeen comes in? Bell has suggested England need to be more expansive, I hope he does. He's got the ability and I hope he watches players like De Villiers, Amla, Jayawardene, etc. and wonders why he isn't scoring ODI runs like they do. Its a conservative mentality, a British trait...
I'd pick Hales and pick Moeen instead of Tredwell. I do think we need to follow the Aus/SA model of throwing the hitters in knowing they will go big/have an impact 50% of the time. Trust Moeen and Root, who may go for runs, but a batting top eight of Cook, Hales, Bell, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Bopara, Moeen, with hitters like Stokes and Jordan to come should be capable of getting 300 runs.
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lumb
Hales
pieterson
Ali
Morgan
Ravi Bop
butler
Stokes
Broad
Tredwell
Finn
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blimey I forgot Root. Sorry tredders your out
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blimey I forgot Root. Sorry tredders your out
Rooty batting at 10?? haha ???
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lumb
Hales
pieterson
Ali
Morgan
Ravi Bop
butler
Stokes
Broad
Tredwell
Finn
For me:
Cook
Hales
Root
Ali/Bell
Ali/Bell
Butler
Bopara
Jordan
Stokes
Broad
Finn
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Bearded Wonder got runs, that's all we need. It will be him and Cook either going at 4 an over or not getting beyond a partnership of 20. Cook will not do much and we'll get knocked out pretty early on despite the efforts of Buttler and Morgan. Cook will resign at the end of the WC to concentrate on tests. England will "move on" having mucked up the WC yet again.
Sound familiar? Strauss did the same at the end of the last WC, albeit with 150 odd against India to his name.
How an ODI series in SL prepares you for Perth and some serious fast bowling I have no idea.
#Trottsfault
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How an ODI series in SL prepares you for Perth and some serious fast bowling I have no idea.
It's a choice between playing ODIs in the sun continent or not at all.
Some practice is better than none.
The best way to prepare would to play a range of games against a range of opposition in Aus, no point having too much practice against quicks when you are playing Pakistan or India who rely on spinners more.
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Example batting plan for a OD game.
After 10- 50/1 (5s)
@ 35 overs - 190/3 (5.5s)
@ 40 overs - 220/4 (6s)
@ 50 overs - 280/ (6s)
There is some logic to this in English conditions or in the UAE but on Australian pitches I suspect the ability to make rather more than 280 is a necessity.
Cook should stay as skipper. I don't agree with it, but a chance at this point would be detrimental to the team ethic. And Ali really should play because aside from his bowling, his bating early doors is a good balance between aggression and common sense.
With those two in the side, and with Root and Morgan at four and five, it would make most sense to drop Ian Bell. Cook could then drop to three and build an innings after the openers have looked for a fast start - if they really rocket away, he can always drop further down (if Bopara was in as the fifth bowler so much the better here)
My side for the WC would be:
Hales
Ali
Cook
Root
Morgan
Buttler
Bopara
Stokes or Jordan
Broad
Finn
Anderson
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Agreed the method is more suited to English and probably NZ conditions but it can be adapted to fit where in the world you are, but i reckon most teams would take 280 batting first in most places.
And todays ODI scores in Oz 267 chased down with an over to spare and the saffer were close to those scores mentioned previously.
I still feel with Mo at the top of the order the scoring will be quick enough.
And do people not realise Cook has a T20 hundred?
50 overs is a long time... As Rohit Sharma proved the other day, albeit in very friendly conditions.
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Sorry but how exactly is Moeen Ali a viable option as opener on bouncy pitches? Ali was struggling against India's medium pacers earlier this year.
So what's he gonna do against Johnson/Starc/Hazlewood/Cummins etc? On rapid pitches?
Sri Lanka aren't exactly providing the most spiteful attack going around are they?
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pieterson
Wow! Progressive!
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Agreed the method is more suited to English and probably NZ conditions but it can be adapted to fit where in the world you are, but i reckon most teams would take 280 batting first in most places.
They may well do - the issue is, the England side is set up with 280 as the absolute limit of its possible ambitions, as opposed to an acceptable enough near par score when the big guns don't quite go on to make a really big contributions, which is where the best teams in the world would have it.
You also have to factor in the fact that England lack a real game changer with the ball, a mystery spinner or a death bowler, any of whom would make 280 a much more defensible score.
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Sorry but how exactly is Moeen Ali a viable option as opener on bouncy pitches? Ali was struggling against India's medium pacers earlier this year.
So what's he gonna do against Johnson/Starc/Hazlewood/Cummins etc? On rapid pitches?
Sri Lanka aren't exactly providing the most spiteful attack going around are they?
Because he is young and learning quickly.
Got to give the man a chance.
The medium pacers weren't too quick for him, he might use the pace of those guys.
Either way, at least we'll get them out of way first up, will make others seem easier after that.
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PLEASE CAN ALEX HALES OPEN THE BATTING WITH MOEEEEEEEN.
Seriously, only in England would Alex Hales not be first name on the team sheet. They would really complement each other too.
Only just seen the suggestion of cook at three... not a bad one based on he has to get picked according to the ECB. I would rather have ballance at 3.
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PLEASE CAN ALEX HALES OPEN THE BATTING WITH MOEEEEEEEN.
Seriously, only in England would Alex Hales not be first name on the team sheet. They would really complement each other too.
As in:
"I like your beard"
"Thanks mate, your tattoos look sick as well!"?? :D
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As the ECB seem to be grooming Joe Root, couldn't they give him the ODI captaincy?
They also seem to be paving the way for him to be test captain at some point in the future, wouldn't it make sense get get the future of the side (Hales) opening so that Cook can put his feet up and not worry about failing in ODIs
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It's ballance even in the squad
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It's ballance even in the squad
nope.
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I know Hales had a great season in the UK but I really don't think he is good enough for international cricket.
I know that's probably and unpopular view and I think he probably deserves a chance to show what he can do but he won't be good enough to take it.
The Indians figured his game out in about 2 games and then he could hardly get it off the square.
Team should be (Assuming everyone is fit)
Ali
Bell
Ballence/Taylor
Root
Morgan (C)
Bopara
Butler
Tredwell
Broad
Anderson
Finn
Woakes just isn't international class with the ball especially when not in UK conditions.
Stokes sorry I know he did ok in the Ashes but I just don't rate him. As a genuine all rounder you need to average more with bat then with the ball and he doesn't do that.
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Is Morgan just hopelessly out of form, or do we reckon he's a busted flush?
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I'm never one to usually criticise national coaches/managers, etc. I figure they've got to where they are knowing a heck of a lot more about a game than I do (still makes me laugh when people genuinely believe they could do a better job). However...
Once you get to a point where you're dropping players who are more destructive than your captain (Bell, Stokes) or cant get a look in (Taylor, even Ballance) or putting square pegs in round holes (Hales), something's got to be done. Why not put Cook at first drop if you want to drop Bell for Hales? Why stick a young guy in a position he's never played?
I just get the sense across all British sports that the national staff select through fear. I acknowledge we are a naturally conservative nation, and much more so than Australia, for example, and traits like that embed themselves within institutions, but if there's a time to be bold its now.
That said, we may be saying at the triangular tournament that Hales is in a shocking run of form, Moeen can't play the short ball and Cook is flaying anything short and wide, while Bell is trusting the pitch to hit 360 degrees. So I'll be the one sitting at the back reserving judgement!
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Bearded Wonder got runs, that's all we need. It will be him and Cook either going at 4 an over or not getting beyond a partnership of 20. Cook will not do much and we'll get knocked out pretty early on despite the efforts of Buttler and Morgan. Cook will resign at the end of the WC to concentrate on tests. England will "move on" having mucked up the WC yet again.
Sound familiar? Strauss did the same at the end of the last WC, albeit with 150 odd against India to his name.
How an ODI series in SL prepares you for Perth and some serious fast bowling I have no idea.
#Trottsfault
Strauss got 400+ runs in the last world cup if I'm not mistaken.
EDIT: I am mistaken. His stats were:
AJ Strauss (Eng) 7 7 0 334 158 47.71 357 93.55 1 1 1 34 3
Which was the second highest English batsman after Trott by quite a distance.
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All these comments about us playing in Perth are misleading... our group games are in New Zealand...
Still it was good for Hales to get a go yesterday and he will play in the next game, hopefully opening.
The other scenario is that Bell opens with Moeen which is hedious.
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Yes - imagine if he grew a long ginger beard!!! Hidious indeed!
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I agree with everyone that Hales needs a good few games opening to see if he can warrant the opening spot for the world cup as it should be Ali, Bell & Hales fighting it out for the 1,2 spot and Cook shouldn't even be on the team bus. But at the same time morgans form is shocking so why can't we give Taylor a shot !
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Not a great game for Mr Hales after a duck and dropping a fairly easy chance.
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Personally think you have to stick with Hales. Will come off 1 in every 4 innings but that knock could win you the game single handed. So long as you pick the right top 5 to cover in case he gets out cheap then we are laughing ie accumulators in the Taylor, Bell, Root mould at 3/4
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i think he needs to be given loads more games personally and I was gutted he got out for 0 yesterday.
In an ideal world the Eng management team would say to Cook - we know what you can do, lets give Moeen and Hales a few more games... I think there is an outside chance of this happening...
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I like your optimism Buzz but I think there is zero chance of that happening
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Robbing a living, didnt warrant selection for the tour, should be sat at home
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Robbing a living, didnt warrant selection for the tour, should be sat at home
What are you on (and where do I get some?)
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Robbing a living, didnt warrant selection for the tour, should be sat at home
You have pretty high standards if someone with his season stats doesn't warrant selection...
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I never see Cook being a match winner, for me he is square peg/round hole.
Hales
Ali
Taylor
Root (c)
Buttler
S Patel
Bopara
Jordan
Broad
Anderson
Finn
Patel is the weak link, toyed with Lumb opening instead of Ali, Thought of Jason Roy/Lees too but Patel can deliver and bowls left arm which could be handy.
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England might wish they picked Hales if this one dayer is significantly reduced with weather
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good point
if we start at 1600 it's a 20 over revised target whack a thon...
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I know Hales had a great season in the UK but I really don't think he is good enough for international cricket.
I know that's probably and unpopular view and I think he probably deserves a chance to show what he can do but he won't be good enough to take it.
The Indians figured his game out in about 2 games and then he could hardly get it off the square.
I said this before his last two failures, he just isn't good enough for international cricket you need to have more than mow to the leg side.
Cook isn't the answer nor is Hales.
Mo and Bell to open with Ballence at 3
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@RichW so after Taylor has been a revelation coming into the side at 3 you'd replace him with Ballance?? ???
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@RichW so after Taylor has been a revelation coming into the side at 3 you'd replace him with Ballance?? ???
Yep that's a good point Taylor has done really well at number 3 in this series and I wouldn't be that by fussed by Taylor 3 and Ballance 4.
But I think that Balance 3 and Taylor 4 would be better, I'm pretty sure Taylor bats 4 for Notts and has had a lot of success in that position.
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But Root is scoring runs at 4. Ballance instead of Morgan at 6.
Moeen
A N Other
Taylor
Root
Bopara
Ballance
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I still think Lumb or Carberry are as good as anything opening up in limited overs games. People may well disagree?
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I always liked Lumb. Much rather see his style of opening the batting than Cooks. Whatever he makes he won't mess around doing it. When you consider Hales and Ballance aswell I'm really struggling to get Cook anywhere near my squad for the World Cup
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I think we'd all agree if cook wasn't odi skipper he wouldn't be anywhere near the team. The selectors s/b removed and moores banished back to county ranks where he seems most suited. I'm trying to think of one benefit of going on this tour apart from a bit of sight seeing.
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I'm not judging hales on this tour
Square peg round hole.
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Lumb scored a ton and got dropped. Great message to send out by team England.
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Lumb scored a ton and got dropped. Great message to send out by team England.
Lumb was never in the odi set up though, we have to re member that the West Indies tour was merely a warm up for the t20 World Cup so only the t20 squad travelled......
Amusingly it's the only odi series we have won in quite a while. Maybe it tells a direction England should be looking to go. Rather than the "250 in a test match style" direction we are going/at.
#bringbackgilesallisforgiven
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Alex Hales has been exposed by better bowlers than he would face playing for Nottingham.
Flogging around 70mph medium paced dobbers is a hell of a lot easier than facing a lively attack(Lakmal and Prasad both bowled at 140kph in this series).
Hales is a T20 slogger. In T20 you pin your ears back and have a dart. Looks stupid in ODIs slogging from ball 1.
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Hales isn't a ball one slogger however to be honest as he's proven when playing for Notts (Where Lumb has had more of that role) and England. To be fair I reckon he's regularly facing 80mph playing Notts, not quite regular 70mph medium paced dobblers but I personally think he deserves a longer run in the side. He's obviously done something to be able to convert from originally being a t20 specialist struggling to get a gig in his county side to having had such a good season and if he can carry that across to internationals he could come off very well.
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Maybe Hales needs time to improve. What about the number 6 berth instead of Morgan who is horribly out of form?
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Maybe Hales needs time to improve. What about the number 6 berth instead of Morgan who is horribly out of form?
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You mean like the great aussie side used to do?? bring newbies in to bat at 6 then filter upwards... now, if only the ECB would think of that!
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Without doubt I would have trott in at 3
I will take his 80strike rate every time
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Luke Wright has also been in outstanding form in 50 over cricket this year
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Luke Wright has also been in outstanding form in 50 over cricket this year
Luke Wright has over 100 England caps and he has never shown he's international quality...
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Luke Wright has over 100 England caps and he has never shown he's international quality...
Only 39 in the longer format.
Still learning, maybe another year and might be worth another look.
Have to remember that not all superstars come in to international cricket and perform from the off.
Look at ABdV. He took about 30 games before his average got above 30 and now look at him. One of the best around.
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Luke Wright has over 100 England caps and he has never shown he's international quality...
He got 99* against Afganistan, yeah fair point...
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Luke Wright has over 100 England caps and he has never shown he's international quality...
Nobody who hales hails from Britain is International standard according to you!
I'm sure that somebody loves you.....somewhere! And that you'll be on one of Santa's lists!
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Nobody who hales hails from Britain is International standard according to you!
But there will be members of the England squad past and present who Gerry will love!
Tong Greig
Andrew Strauss
Kevin Pietersen
Matt Prior
Jade Dernbach
Gary Ballance
Ben Stokes
To name just a few...
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Nobody who hales hails from Britain is International standard according to you!
I'm sure that somebody loves you.....somewhere! And that you'll be on one of Santa's lists!
McIlroy and Murray are...
Santa is owned by Coca-Cola...
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But there will be members of the England squad past and present who Gerry will love!
Tong Greig
Andrew Strauss
Kevin Pietersen
Matt Prior
Jade Dernbach
Gary Ballance
Ben Stokes
To name just a few...
Thanks that list helped remind me South Africa dodged a bullet with Dernbach...
Stokes is from New Zealand...
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Thanks that list helped remind me South Africa dodged a bullet with Dernbach...
Stokes is from New Zealand...
I was just going for anyone not "British" rather than just South Africans.
The eagle eyed will notice Ballance is Zimbabwean :D
Did you rate one test wonder Darren Pattinson??
And I forgot Andy Caddick, how could I do that??
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McIlroy and Murray are...
Santa is owned by Coca-Cola...
You like McIlroy because he said that he wanted Aus to win and England to lose, so it's obvious that he isn't keen in the English.
And we all know how little Murray likes being called a Brit, and sees himself as Scottish. So obvious why you like them!!
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Hales look shot. Avg 0.5 in the bbl!
Well ruined England!
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Usual slog from hales. Really needs to get himself in, before attempting that shot
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He just dropped a sitter too....... Not a great time for hales.
Lumb going well. Why'd England drop him after his odi ton again?
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Hales look shot. Avg 0.5 in the bbl!
Well ruined England!
Or maybe he is just not that good.
I can't see how a couple of games batting at three, and failing there too, is England's fault.
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Or maybe he is just not that good.
I can't see how a couple of games batting at three, and failing there too, is England's fault.
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I presume you believe there is no mental part of the cricket game, and it's a simple matter of if your good, you perform, and if you aren't you won't. Nothing else will effect you?
I suppose Finn was merely "not that good" when in last years ashes, and sent home, and nothing to do with mental frustration off the then coaching staff constantly changing his game?
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Well ruined England!
By picking him? Damned if they do, damned if they don't?
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He just dropped a sitter too....... Not a great time for hales.
Lumb going well. Why'd England drop him after his odi ton again?
Wasn't quite a sitter really. Head height ball on the boundary rope, can't really get your body behind it so have to take it side on and it just burst through his hands.
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Shall we re-name this thread: "Why won't England pick Michael Lumb?"
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I presume you believe there is no mental part of the cricket game, and it's a simple matter of if your good, you perform, and if you aren't you won't. Nothing else will effect you?
I suppose Finn was merely "not that good" when in last years ashes, and sent home, and nothing to do with mental frustration off the then coaching staff constantly changing his game?
Maybe you should do less presuming and supposing and provide something, anything of fact to back you point up rather than just being disparaging towards others.
Yes, the mental part of the game exists, but to blame England for poor shot selection.
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If we're blaming 'England' for everything, let's give them credit when we won the T20 and were number one in the world and winning back to back ashes. Blame the current situation on capitalism, greed and british conservative values at the top of sport that lead to white, middle aged men with risk-averse opinions and decades old attitudes to how sport is always played. It's not always the people you want to blames fault. Look at the cause, not the symptom...
The general public mock the Rooney rule, while those who have experience say it can't be a bad thing. The more diversity and new ideas at committee level leads to broader ideas of how things should be run and picking more mavericks, like hales. Until then, we will always view players who.play with initiative as inconsistent and give them less leeway than a cook or ballance.
There are lots of younger, more diverse people trying to break down barriers. But getting the institutionalised execs to change is like getting turkeys to vote for Christmas...
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I personally believe there is something wrong in the england set up. I may well be wrong. And am probably on my own. But.
Trescothick
Trott
Yardy
3 guys who had reported mental breakdowns
Swann
Leading world off spinner retiring halfway through a series.
Finn
Anderson
Two world class bowlers. Turned to club level cubbies in pace and accuracy after having there actions worked upon(and the counties were the ones that bought them back to world level)
Kerrigan
A guy picked for a test that then bowled like he'd struggle to get in my 3rd team.
Then probably scraping the barrel but.
Hick
Ramprakash
2 blokes with county records that embarrass many internationals stars fc records. But always went backwards when with England.
Does any other international set up have such a record?
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Now look at the constant in your examples. Ideology. Ingrained, embedded attitudes that haven't changed for decades because the structure of sports in this country is totally institutionalised.
Why did the fa never go to clough, sack venables at the first opportunity and will always go for the safe appointment? Risk averse conservative values. Same with the ecb.
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I personally believe there is something wrong in the england set up. I may well be wrong. And am probably on my own. But.
Trescothick
Trott
Yardy
3 guys who had reported mental breakdowns
Swann
Leading world off spinner retiring halfway through a series.
Finn
Anderson
Two world class bowlers. Turned to club level cubbies in pace and accuracy after having there actions worked upon(and the counties were the ones that bought them back to world level)
Kerrigan
A guy picked for a test that then bowled like he'd struggle to get in my 3rd team.
Then probably scraping the barrel but.
Hick
Ramprakash
2 blokes with county records that embarrass many internationals stars fc records. But always went backwards when with England.
Does any other international set up have such a record?
Neither have ever been 'world class'. Both are around Morne Morkel's level eg nearly men
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Neither have ever been 'world class'. Both are around Morne Morkel's level eg nearly men
Don't think that subjective opinion was the point he was trying to make though. Just how both had been introduced to the England set up only to, in Finns case for example become unpickable despite being in the squad.
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Don't think that subjective opinion was the point he was trying to make though. Just how both had been introduced to the England set up only to, in Finns case for example become unpickable despite being in the squad.
Finn's career getting destroyed was pretty tragic to be honest. 6ft7 + 150+kph, the only other bowler with those attributes in world cricket is Marchant de Lange. Finn could have been one of the greats.
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Hales on fire yesterday - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzavXs4z__Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzavXs4z__Y) (you can fast forward through the minute and a half of faff at the beginning!)
I don't care what anyone else says about the quality of the bowling etc, as far as I am concerned he should be in the Eng team in all forms.
Taylor also in the video - he has introduced a very odd move the front foot out of the way trigger movement which looks terrible - is this something that is new or introduced at the whim of some form of ECB madness?
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Hales on fire yesterday - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzavXs4z__Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzavXs4z__Y) (you can fast forward through the minute and a half of faff at the beginning!)
I don't care what anyone else says about the quality of the bowling etc, as far as I am concerned he should be in the Eng team in all forms.
Taylor also in the video - he has introduced a very odd move the front foot out of the way trigger movement which looks terrible - is this something that is new or introduced at the whim of some form of ECB madness?
Bowling pretty reasonable but its his first score for ages - who would you drop to include him, bearing in mind Lyth and Pietersen are already available to come in?
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I personally believe there is something wrong in the england set up. I may well be wrong. And am probably on my own. But.
Nope, not on your own there - in recent years the England Lions have had a load of players come back noticeably worse than they went away - Yorkshire fans still alment David Wainwright going as a quality all rounder and coming back a nervous wreck and could just as easily quote Richard DAwson, Adil Rashid, Adam Lyth (the first time round) and Mattie Wood. Elsewhere, its noticeable that James Hildreth's returns drop markedly the SUmmer after he made the Lions party...
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Very happy to have Lyth and Hales opening the batting. Cook isn't scoring runs, Trott isn't going to work out against NZ or Aus.
KP needs to score runs and isn't an opener. I think KP's best chance of a game is if Bell gets injured - and he will have needed to score 3 or 4 more first class hundreds.
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I'm with Buzz on this one although I disagree with Pietersen. I don't think he's getting in no matter how heavily he scores to be honest. England need to rebuild for the future and utilise players in form and the younger ones they have. Of course it matters how the results go now but really, do they? Short term loss for long term gain. We need to be prepared to lose games to learn how to play positive cricket and keep up with the shift around the world. How many of the top teams in any format have players who are either negative / pedestrian in their batting? There are probably about as many combined from SA, Aus, NZ, India, as there are in Englands squad alone.
A shift is required and the longer it takes the further down the rankings we will slide.
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I think it would be wrong to leave Petersen out of the England team if he scoring runs in County cricket a team can then be built around him if he scores runs in tests rather than continue with any player, Coach or member of the ECB who is constantly failing.
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Whilst Ballance, Bell and Root continue to score runs against the opposition in front of them. Pietersen shouldn't get in.
If they start failing, then that is another thing all together.
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Well I know why Rashid isn't being picked to play.... I was told yesterday via some inside info...
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Not a surprise, Ali in for the Injured Tredwell and will no doubt be stuck down at 8, we'll likely win, but learn nothing and not move any closer to building a side that's competitive against the best.
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Well I know why Rashid isn't being picked to play.... I was told yesterday via some inside info...
You can't say that and not tell us ;)
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Following the England Lions Tour, his readiness to play was assessed at 1/10. The only person assessed worse was Samit Patel. He apparently doesn't seem to have the drive/enthusiasm for it, however that it assessed.
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well that does beg the question what is he doing on tour in the first place?
perhaps some of the other forum members will be proved right...he is in the squad as 'reward' for Yorkshires season without any real hope of playing
are we back to a man management issue?
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Andy bloody Flower ... I bet Rashid laughed or something.
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I'm not saying KP should be brought back because I want England to move on with younger players but that doesn't change what Nasser said when he became England captain, he took over(as i'm sure the forum know) when we lost to New Zealand
He was booed thru his post match interview by the England fans I remember it like yesterday
Afterwards he said they will change their selection policy so previously thought of 'difficult characters' like Tufnell, Caddick,Lewis,ramps,thorpe etc would be picked on ability.
Nasser was known as a hot head himself in his younger days.
He was basically saying i'm going to pick these players and it's up to the management to manage them.
Perhaps we need some of that thinking
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well that does beg the question what is he doing on tour in the first place?
perhaps some of the other forum members will be proved right...he is in the squad as 'reward' for Yorkshires season without any real hope of playing
Well, it prevents him playing for Yorkshire, doesn't it? >:(
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Following the England Lions Tour, his readiness to play was assessed at 1/10. The only person assessed worse was Samit Patel. He apparently doesn't seem to have the drive/enthusiasm for it, however that it assessed.
That cannot possibly be true can it? If it was, why on earth would he be there if he has no chance of playing?
Personally, I'd drop a seamer and play him to see what happens. Broad or Jordan being my choice to drop.
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Jordan should be left out and go back to County Cricket and work on his game in particular his bowling he has the potential to become Englands next genuine all rounder.
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That cannot possibly be true can it? If it was, why on earth would he be there if he has no chance of playing?
Personally, I'd drop a seamer and play him to see what happens. Broad or Jordan being my choice to drop.
Let's just say that the source is impeccable and that I assume there has been some changes since then!
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Let's just say that the source is impeccable and that I assume there has been some changes since then!
Tim you sound like Mike Selvey this morning!
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GASP!!!! Perhaps Tim IS Mike Selvey!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you ever seen them in the same room together?
It's just like Latoya and Michael Jackson.
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Which admin was it that claimed he knew Downton personally when he took charge? ?
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Tim seems a thoroughly decent fellow. It would take a better writer than Selvey to consistently cover his character up..,
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Which admin was it that claimed he knew Downton personally when he took charge? ?
Not sure there was one - but he used to work in the next door building to me (and 10,000 others!)
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Following the England Lions Tour, his readiness to play was assessed at 1/10. The only person assessed worse was Samit Patel. He apparently doesn't seem to have the drive/enthusiasm for it, however that it assessed.
Jesus England is so messed up.
He's a pro cricketer, more than fit enough.. Same with samit. This is just another example of the jokers running the national game. Disgraceful
Still, St least Cook is from the right family and s few runs vs a crap WI will of course show how well England are progressing . Sigh.
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Why would you be enthusiastic to play if you know that you won't really get a decent chance, you'll be messed with and then have to take the blame for everyone else not doing well in the team and losing, dropped never to have a proper go again till you are too old and useless, then get a chance again coz they are busy toying with some other young talent and but by then the train has already left the station...
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yes it's poor
Looks like Ali in for Tredwell the only change.I'm sure Moores thinks a 'chance' selection of Rashid backfiring will cost him his job.
Sad really...we will never see any new players at this rate. everyone is scared of losing there job which creates a negative team
We need someone with a set of Kahunas
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We need someone with a set of Kahunas
Stokes, even if lacking in talent (TBD or long haul) has the fire...You need some of these punching the locker, ready for a fight folks in the team...rather than: mommy warner said he was going to punch me in the face when I was at a pub making fun of someone...
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So Alex Hales hasn't made the test squad - but is celebrating avoiding the test thrashings with a trip to India to play for the Mumbai Indians
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think hes on the bench for this game as it happens too!