Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: The Doctor on November 09, 2015, 04:54:28 PM
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Hi chaps,
Done my first post on - the science behind the spin (a post about the technology used in cricket - what the marketing spin means and is it justified).
The first blog is about the honeycomb handle brought out by Laver&Wood - http://wp.me/p69Qw2-1g (http://wp.me/p69Qw2-1g)
This is really difficult for me as I have my views and want the public to hear them, as I read some stuff and think what the hell does that mean.... but also I dont want people to think that "its that mad bloke from B3", or "he would slate anything non B3" As this is not the case - (might be a little bonkers....)This is truely a personal blog and in no way associated to B3.
Anyway - testing it out on you guys to see if you think its a good idea, is there a niche for this kind of blog?
Would like to hear your opinion warts and all.
Streaky
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Nice blog - at the end you touch on the counterbalance point - I think more information and some thoughts on that would be really interesting as they seem a load of nonsense to me, but some people think it is a great plan...
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Nice blog - at the end you touch on the counterbalance point - I think more information and some thoughts on that would be really interesting as they seem a load of nonsense to me, but some people think it is a great plan...
Hi @Buzz will update the blog and talk a little bit more on this subject - might even be ablog in it's own right.....
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Would be nice if L&W comment on the C-Ten handle via this blog.
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Interesting read @thedoctor hard to argue with the theory/logic. Just wondering if you had the actual weight of the resin insert or did you just do 10% of the weight calc? Also in the cut up pic of the handle the resin, i thought, penetrated deeper into the handle than the 1 inch hollowed out area...could that impact the stiffness of the handle too?
Hard to see but you can kind of make out the resin in the 2nd and 3rd piece as well of the middle pic
(https://cricketbatblogdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/laver-wood-4.jpg)
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I was shocked when Jason posted the handle, but when I posted the pics, it seemed many was aware that that was the amount of depth given.
I was glad I chose a standard handle on my laver and not the extra for this one.
What difference does cork vs rubber make in terms of weight? Read somewhere a player(can't remember who) always request rubber as it helps the counterbalance theory.
So wondered what the big difference is?
(Have to say I prefer the feel of a cork handle over rubber)
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Interesting blog as I considered one like this
Would be interesting to see how far the carbo cane goes down as when I had one of those it felt and sounded different so I can only assume it went further down?
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Interesting blog as I considered one like this
Would be interesting to see how far the carbo cane goes down as when I had one of those it felt and sounded different so I can only assume it went further down?
I had a GN bat with Carbo at the bottom of the handle
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Another interesting read, I'm sure Jacques Kallis always had something that looked like a massive counter weight on his handle.
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Interesting read @thedoctor hard to argue with the theory/logic. Just wondering if you had the actual weight of the resin insert or did you just do 10% of the weight calc? Also in the cut up pic of the handle the resin, i thought, penetrated deeper into the handle than the 1 inch hollowed out area...could that impact the stiffness of the handle too?
Hard to see but you can kind of make out the resin in the 2nd and 3rd piece as well of the middle pic
The model and caculations use density data for all the materials and then calculates the final weight so its all pretty accurate. The resin would have too higher viscosity to penetrate into the handle further than the cut out.
Initially I couldnt see it - and just thought it was the honeycomb but reading between the lines and also from the picture of the honeycomb cut in half I think it is there.
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Interesting blog as I considered one like this
Would be interesting to see how far the carbo cane goes down as when I had one of those it felt and sounded different so I can only assume it went further down?
If any one has any pictures I'd be interested.
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I was shocked when Jason posted the handle, but when I posted the pics, it seemed many was aware that that was the amount of depth given.
I was glad I chose a standard handle on my laver and not the extra for this one.
What difference does cork vs rubber make in terms of weight? Read somewhere a player(can't remember who) always request rubber as it helps the counterbalance theory.
So wondered what the big difference is?
(Have to say I prefer the feel of a cork handle over rubber)
From experience the cork handles will on average be 0.75oz lighter than that of the rubber. I think the counterbalance theory is a bit of a myth
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If any one has any pictures I'd be interested.
http://www.laverwood.co.nz/carboproduct_detail.php (http://www.laverwood.co.nz/carboproduct_detail.php)
seems I've answered my own question with a bit of digging
MCC laws prevent it being more than 10% as of 2008
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seems to be about stiffening the handle but are there other ways to do this maybe double binding the handle?
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seems to be about stiffing the handle but are there other ways to do this maybe double binding the handle?
Again not convinced about this stiffness claim on something that does not penetrate that far, For me it would certainly need to go past the pivot point and almost certain into the blade to have any effect.
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I think it has come from slow mo on tv seeing how much a handle does flex has to have an effect on energy transfer but I'm not 100% convinced a super stiff handle could transfer enough energy back to have a massive impact
saying that the carbo handle I had did seem to play different to my normal bat at the time so its confusing me a bit
might need to do the math on a few things if I get round to it
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Another interesting read, I'm sure Jacques Kallis always had something that looked like a massive counter weight on his handle.
Saw a picture of kallis is handle with the grip rolled down at the top pretty certain the counterbalance was lead tape.
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seems to be about stiffening the handle but are there other ways to do this maybe double binding the handle?
Also Used to have a GN with Carbon fibre springs to give the bat a stiffer handle therefore reducing the energy lost when striking the ball the bat made an hollow sound when you gave the ball a thump.
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yeah it was the gn fusion but that was whole handle as before the new laws
I had one and sounded very funny
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yeah it was the gn fusion but that was whole handle as before the new laws
I had one and sounded very funny
Yes that's the one couldn't remember the name also around the same time GN made a carbon fibre handle designed to help keep the weight within the blade giving the bat a bigger profile
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from my point of view its weird as the comparison with hockey where tech has moved on dramatically from wood stick to composite as it gives no one the advantage as everyone has them so now sticks feather light but so much more powerful
but as it would give the batsmen a big advantage the tech in cricket has remained the same barring a few little tweaks
I'm all for more power etc but having seen the difference in hockey it would be too much in favour of batting so maybe we should just be happy with tweaks every now and again and work on our ability rather than blame the bat haha
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Streaky I have a cargo core handle you can take a look at on Saturday lad
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Again not convinced about this stiffness claim on something that does not penetrate that far, For me it would certainly need to go past the pivot point and almost certain into the blade to have any effect.
So there's nothing to the claim it's the resin penetrating down through the handle that aids stiffening?
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So there's nothing to the claim it's the resin penetrating down through the handle that aids stiffening?
Not quite sure where it states that (info direct from L&W website;
L&W C-Ten
The C-Ten is brand new technology and is proving to be incredibly popular.
The feedback we have received has been amazing and we know that this handle is the future!
Due to the honeycomb structure at the top of the handle it is reasonably rigid so performance is increased (similar to the CarboCane offering) but it is not so stiff that it feels strange in the hands.
The other main benefit is that the clear resin used to infuse and secure the honeycomb is heavier than the cane it replaces. This brings the balance point of the bat further up the blade towards the hands and therefore makes it feel lighter.
These factors improve balance and performance which are the two main factors looked for in an elite cricket bat.
The L&W C-Ten handles can be made in Oval, Round, Thick, Thin, Long, Short, and Super Short sizes.
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I think it has come from slow mo on tv seeing how much a handle does flex has to have an effect on energy transfer but I'm not 100% convinced a super stiff handle could transfer enough energy back to have a massive impact
saying that the carbo handle I had did seem to play different to my normal bat at the time so its confusing me a bit
might need to do the math on a few things if I get round to it
Majority of flex shown on TV is after bat/ball impact.
I don’t think you can compare 1 bat and scientifically say it was the handle; you would need to look at batches and ensure all other factors were constant otherwise it would be like the small print in a ladies make up advert
“survey 66% of agree that this magic cream makes you look 50 years younger (survey based on 2 ladies from the local nursing home …) “
As bats are made from a natural product(s) it is always hard to justify a claim, and you will tend to find that the “advantages” of a feature are created by the marketing department with very little or no testing/research. This is the reason for me starting the blog to try and put a little bit of reasoning behind the claims.
Streaky
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I'd seen the pics of how far down the handle the honeycomb went and immediately dismissed it as twaddle - but what do I know?
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(http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd414/skipper1973/Screenshot_2015-11-10-23-31-03.png) (http://s1218.photobucket.com/user/skipper1973/media/Screenshot_2015-11-10-23-31-03.png.html)
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Majority of flex shown on TV is after bat/ball impact.
I don’t think you can compare 1 bat and scientifically say it was the handle; you would need to look at batches and ensure all other factors were constant otherwise it would be like the small print in a ladies make up advert
“survey 66% of agree that this magic cream makes you look 50 years younger (survey based on 2 ladies from the local nursing home …) “
As bats are made from a natural product(s) it is always hard to justify a claim, and you will tend to find that the “advantages” of a feature are created by the marketing department with very little or no testing/research. This is the reason for me starting the blog to try and put a little bit of reasoning behind the claims.
Streaky
Having worked extensively with wood and machining wood I tend to agree as with any natural product they are never 100% the same as nature is not
it is why in hockey with the composite design they can make these claims and they are justified
As long as bats are made from mostly wood no 2 bats will the same regardless of how they are made or what is added, that is why I said I wasn't 100% convinced other than the fact the 2 I had did seem to feel different.
if you locked the handle in place ( where hands are placed) and pushed the bat back from the "sweet spot" would it snap first at the bottom of the handle or splice?
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Would it not be just easier to drill narrow deep holes and then pour resin in instead of a drill for an inch and then let it seep through...you can definitely see the absorption in the handle further than the 1inch cut out, looks like black specks on the cane.
Also since you are allowed 10% other materials in the handle why not use carbon fiber tape on the handle, over or under the twine? that would/should cover the entire handle and still could be legal!!
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Would it not be just easier to drill narrow deep holes and then pour resin in instead of a drill for an inch and then let it seep through...you can definitely see the absorption in the handle further than the 1inch cut out, looks like black specks on the cane.
Also since you are allowed 10% other materials in the handle why not use carbon fiber tape on the handle, over or under the twine? that would/should cover the entire handle and still could be legal!!
Now you've got me wishing I still had access to piles of composites and resin... Half an hour's work to wrap a handle in kevlar or carbon fibre instead of twine, don't think cf would be the best plan but kevlar could be an interesting experiment (kevlar is less brittle so handles flex better than carbon).
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Now you've got me wishing I still had access to piles of composites and resin... Half an hour's work to wrap a handle in kevlar or carbon fibre instead of twine, don't think cf would be the best plan but kevlar could be an interesting experiment (kevlar is less brittle so handles flex better than carbon).
:) thanks for sharing, I don't know much about these materials....in think @StrettonFox Sports should do a kevlar grip/sleeve for the handle that we can buy and put on the handle like a traditional grip ;)
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I would be very surprised if the resin pentrated down the handle, especially to the lengths that are being suggested as the resin itself will have a high viscosity, but as I cannot be 100% sure and as I dont like to speculate we will have to take their word for it!
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Would it not be just easier to drill narrow deep holes and then pour resin in instead of a drill for an inch and then let it seep through...you can definitely see the absorption in the handle further than the 1inch cut out, looks like black specks on the cane.
Also since you are allowed 10% other materials in the handle why not use carbon fiber tape on the handle, over or under the twine? that would/should cover the entire handle and still could be legal!!
I doubt that resin alone would make a substantial difference to the properties, I think it would be needed to combine with something that has a higher tensile strength than the cane.
The carbon fibre /kevlar idea would be worth a try however.
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:) thanks for sharing, I don't know much about these materials....in think @StrettonFox Sports should do a kevlar grip/sleeve for the handle that we can buy and put on the handle like a traditional grip ;)
No problem, sadly it's a bit more complicated than being able to use tape (you need resin, some form of compression onto the handle etc). I've just bought a bargain spare bat though, so I might get some supplies in and give it a go... watch this space.