Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: CrickFreak on September 07, 2016, 12:22:49 AM
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Looks like India will dominate. Have high regard for KW, Boult, Southee etc but without quality batting against spin and a genuine spinner, i doubt NZ will win any....
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Taylor will be ok.
Yip, can't see us doing too well unless another couple of batsman step up.
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Ish Sodhi - this guy isn't part of the team ?
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i think he is.
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Just woke up and put it on.
Ten overs gone, Santander already in his second over of spin and Rahul Justin sweeper him for six! Run rate over 4 an over.
Procricket1882 will be livid at this!
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Just woke up and put it on.
Ten overs gone, Santander already in his second over of spin and Rahul Justin sweeper him for six! Run rate over 4 an over.
Procricket1882 will be livid at this!
Another example of Indian cricket ruining test matches. I have no problems with teams producing "home" pitches but I have a problem where spinners are being used BEFORE lunch on the 1st day.
Just goes to show that cricket is following the majority of sports where money unfortunately dictates what the major teams want, they get. :o
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Another example of Indian cricket ruining test matches. I have no problems with teams producing "home" pitches but I have a problem where spinners are being used BEFORE lunch on the 1st day.
Just goes to show that cricket is following the majority of sports where money unfortunately dictates what the major teams want, they get. :o
But the ball is hardly turning though? I'd say probably a better pitch compared to what they've produced in the past.
If NZ play 3 spinners then of course they are going to bowl spin before lunch, can't really expect seam and swing??
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Yep, the dinner time chat was nonspin yet, and that NZ severely under used there seamerss.
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Nothing wrong with a spinner on before lunch on the first day.
This works both ways, because if you prepare a dusty bunsen then the ball will also reverse swing round corners just after lunch.
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Nothing wrong with a spinner on before lunch on the first day.
This works both ways, because if you prepare a dusty bunsen then the ball will also reverse swing round corners just after lunch.
if that's true England would be favourites for the upcoming series in India. We got a two or three who can get it reverse swinging.
And that's even with Ravi Bop's and his super special shining technique :)
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Nothing wrong with a spinner on before lunch on the first day.
This works both ways, because if you prepare a dusty bunsen then the ball will also reverse swing round corners just after lunch.
It's all.about opinions. For me if ball is turning then reversing on the 1st day then "usually " the test match doesn't last 4 days...
For me personally that is not test match cricket. I like to see bowlers and batsmen using their skills and NOT relying on the pitch to make them look good...
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But the ball is hardly turning though? I'd say probably a better pitch compared to what they've produced in the past.
If NZ play 3 spinners then of course they are going to bowl spin before lunch, can't really expect seam and swing??
Why are NZ playing 3 spinners though ? The pitch... And to be honest they could of had pace from both ends whilst the ball is still hard.
The ball is also turning. Another example of winning the toss, batting and winning the test match???
Probably...
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if that's true England would be favourites for the upcoming series in India. We got a two or three who can get it reverse swinging.
That was my theory (on another thread), instead of taking average spinners (batty et al) which are fodder to Indian's brought up on spin. Why not take good quicks who can reverse it instead.
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Australian conspiracy theorist Tate035 is on one...The reason why New Zealand are playing three spinners is because their seam bowling all rounder Jimmy Neesham was injured in the nets yesterday and unable to play. Neesham would've played ahead of Mark Craig.
There's nothing wrong with this pitch whatsoever, because if it was a square turner, then India would've played their leg spinner Mishra, but the opted for two quicks and two spinners. That said Ashwin and Jadeja are vastly superior to the Kiwis spinners
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That was my theory (on another thread), instead of taking average spinners (batty et al) which are fodder to Indian's brought up on spin. Why not take good quicks who can reverse it instead.
indeed....our quicks did a great job in the UAE are they tracks were pretty flat there. Personally I don't think we will play three spinners in Asia, two yes and one of them might be Batty...
Anderson and Wood(if fit) can def reverse it, and Woakes.
I don't know how much reverse swing we will get out there thou....don't think it's going to go round corners.
If you play India, you got to expect it to spin big. New Zealand today have done very well indeed.....
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That was my theory (on another thread), instead of taking average spinners (batty et al) which are fodder to Indian's brought up on spin. Why not take good quicks who can reverse it instead.
Because the only fast bowler to dominant in India in the last decade has been Steyn. Guys like Lee and Johnson have been smashed to pieces
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Remember frequently the best way to win a test match in India is to lose the toss, bowl, bowl the side out for 300, score 450 plus then skittle the other side in the 3rd innings.
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Because the only fast bowler to dominant in India in the last decade has been Steyn. Guys like Lee and Johnson have been smashed to pieces
From memory Lee had a pretty good record in India.
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Australian conspiracy theorist Tate035 is on one...The reason why New Zealand are playing three spinners is because their seam bowling all rounder Jimmy Neesham was injured in the nets yesterday and unable to play. Neesham would've played ahead of Mark Craig.
There's nothing wrong with this pitch whatsoever, because if it was a square turner, then India would've played their leg spinner Mishra, but the opted for two quicks and two spinners. That said Ashwin and Jadeja are vastly superior to the Kiwis spinners
Lol.. Not sure what you mean by Australian conspiracy theorist.. Brexit campaigner maybe...
I have no problem with what type of bowlers are played or why people are missing or haven't been picked... My problem is that I don't feel spinners should be bowling more overs than pace bowlers before lunch on the 1st day of a test match.
I have no thoughts positive or negative about the team NZ have picked. :)
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This is some comeback by the kiwi's. 7 down on a flat wicket. Some ball from boult!
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This is some comeback by the kiwi's. 7 down on a flat wicket. Some ball from boult!
Hopefully NZ can put the Buzz theory of batting in India to the fore. A nice 450 in the Nz 1st innings should put them in the box seat...
H
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It's all.about opinions. For me if ball is turning then reversing on the 1st day then "usually " the test match doesn't last 4 days...
For me personally that is not test match cricket. I like to see bowlers and batsmen using their skills and NOT relying on the pitch to make them look good...
Recent test match between NZ and SA in SA got over in 4 days. Bouncy green top or slow turning pitch, home team will produce a pitch that suits them. Period! Its the same trend seen everywhere. Do I agree, probably not.
As far as practice games are concerned, its same everywhere. Give the visitors an ordinary opposition and flat tracks.
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Remember frequently the best way to win a test match in India is to lose the toss, bowl, bowl the side out for 300, score 450 plus then skittle the other side in the 3rd innings.
Bat first if you win toss, any test anywhere in the world. With batting second, you are always catching up, plus the fatigue makes batting harder on 5th day. Even chasing 200 in 4th inning seems like a challenge.
I think you are referring to India vs England test match in Mumbai few years ago. Doesnt happen often, KP played the inning of his life :)
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New Zealand surely tour well now! Playing pretty well.. this is going to be one well fought tour!
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Watched it this morning before work. Williamson is some player and will surely go on to be regarded as the Kiwi's best ever bat (although Martin Crowe will always be the best for me).
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Would rate KW the best test batsmen in the world. Runs in all conditions and against all teams.
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good stuff from the Kiwi's so far, this could be an interesting series
having grown up watching Martin Crowe(rip) JT struggling to think of a better NZ batsman but Williamson is top draw.
He's got just about everything you want in a batsman.
Crowe was superb thou, and carried NZ (batting) when they were not very good
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Gotta hand it to NZ from a small player base and funding pot they compete with and often beat much more wealthy and larger countries.
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This games been turned on it's head by the indian spinners! Hoping for some runs from the tail
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This games been turned on it's head by the indian spinners! Hoping for some runs from the tail
Only 1 wicket left. Jadeja with 3 in 5 balls.
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All out 262, 56 looks like a big lead on this wicket now
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Really outstanding spin bowling partnership between the two Ravi's, guess it helps that they've been playing together for nearly 6/7 years now. Just read that Jadeja has 55 wickets in India at 15 a piece! Filthy!
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Funny to think with Jadeja's bowling now being his calling card, that he actually has 3/4 triple hundreds in domestic cricket. If he worked on his batting again, Ashwin and Jadeja could easily bat at 6 and 7.
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India needs to take a lead of 300 to have a winning total
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NZ in trouble here.
India left hemselve 4 sessions, they may not even need half of that!
Only two overs of seam so far, spin doing the damage
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Village that from Taylor! 15 overs to go, could be 7-8 down by close
Ashwin the second fastest to 200 wickets.
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I must say its very exciting cricket. every ball I'm waiting for our batsman to get out.
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India wrapped up victory in the first Test on the fifth afternoon. But not before Luke Ronchi and Mitchell Santner made them sweat for a while. Ronchi batted brilliantly for his 80 and Santner dug in for a hard fought 57. Santner is a star in the making, no questions about it. But once they fell India's champion spinner Ashwin cleaned up to finish with 6-132 and match figures of 10-227. Ashwin's partner in crime Jadeja was named player of the match of his vital 42* in the first innings and them his match changing 5/73 which took the match away from New Zealand just as they where on your verge of taking control. Gotta admit it was brilliant match, better pitch than the ones during the South African series, and two sides going toe to toe. New Zealand's spinners aren't a match for the Indian counterparts at present.
Mark Craig has a side strain and is out of that series, veteran Jeetan Patel has been recalled for the the first time in 6 years.
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New Zealand's options for the second Test are set to remain limited with James Neesham still out with his rib injury. Coupled with Jeetan Patel's flight being delayed so he will only arrive at midnight on Wednesday.
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Just seen that Gautam Gambhir has been recalled. Very interesting. He's kinda like an Indian Ian Bell. Will be an interested spectator to see if the "Looking back to go forward" experiment would work for England in selecting Bell again. Seems to be very popular these days to keep looking to youth, let's see if selecting experience over youthful exuberance works.
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Picking Gambhir doesnt make sense. He has not played any international cricket for a while and he is 34. There are lot of young openers doing well at domestic level, playing home test will be ideal opportunity for them. Dhawan would have been my first choice though.
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Gambhir is a troubled kid unlike Ian Bell. Bell lost his place due to poor performance but Gambhir was pretty much kicked out due to attitude problems. Same reason why Praveen Kumar is also sitting on the sidelines.
I am guessing that BCCI is giving him a chance to depart test arena gracefully. Since India has about 10+ tests lined up for the next 12 months, he might be able to bid adieu in a respectable fashion. I don't see how they will persist with Gambhir once KL Rahul is back to full fitness.
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Wasn't Gambhir recalled because he's actually been playing? He was captain of the side that won the Duleep trophy IIRC, but he's unlikely to get a game as Dhawan is the next cab of the rank
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Gambhir is just a replacement for a like to like spot i.e. opening the batting when Rahul is injured but personally I dont think he will feature in playing 11 with Dhawan being in the team. We will find out tomorrow anyway :)
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Second Test started this morning and India ended day 1 on 239/7. New Zealand made multiple changes Williamson ill, Craig injured and Sodhi dropped. Henry Nicholls, Jeetan Patel and Matt Henry coming into the playing XI. India made two changes with Rahul injured and Yadav dropped. Dhawan and Kumar came in.
Matt Henry was mighty impressive with the new ball as the Kiwis ran through the top order. Dhawan, Vijay and Kohli found wanting against the testing spells by Henry and Boult. Pujara 87 and Rahane 77 helped readdress the balance somewhat before the Kiwis fought back again. Jeetan Patel, 6 years after his last match, was fantastic. 2/66 from 30 overs on a day 1 pitch. He could easily have bagged more on another day.
Without Williamson India probably already ahead of the game. But India will want Saha and Jadeja to edge them up to 300. Exciting Test cricket being displayed in this series.
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@Felix Tito - Edging towards 300 might be a stiff challenge. First session had some juice for fast bowlers and Boult did well to knock off Dhawan and Vijay. I am sure he would do the same on the first session of second day as well. If India is bundled out in the first 10-15 overs, then NZ is in for a long day with spinners ashwin & jadeja covering from both ends.
Pujara and Rahane played a decent knock, they should have stuck around to get their 100. Rohit Sharma - no idea what to say, only he can get out in this fashion !
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3 down already without the spinners coming on. Unfortunately see us getting rolled over for under 150.
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This pitch is lively to say the least!
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Not Looking Good & It's Only Day 2 :o :( :( :(
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It was always going to be an uphill task for New Zealand without Kane Williamson, Ronchi and Taylor showed decent application but the rest where found wanting. Guptill averages under 30 after nearly 50 Tests, that experiment should end now. Watling could easily open and Ronchi is a superb keeper anyway.
Bhuvneshwar Kumar bowled India to an improbable victory in the Caribbean and his good form has continued at home now. Good to see Kumar return to his best, he was outstanding on India's last tour of England but fell away after that.
New Zealand's going to need Herculean effort to get back into this Test.
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Before the series started the two umpires were being hailed as 2 of the best in the world. Sorry to say they have had shockers this series. So many plum LBW's not given and then 50/50 at best ones given. Some of Jadeja's have been ridiculously out and not given and that one from Santner yesterday against Kumar not given out only to get a 50/50 one next ball. Again DRS is highlighted in India.
India outclassing us in all facets however.
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B J Watling Easy Two Runs There, Well Judged On The Second Run. No Need For The Dive. ;)
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Recalled Jeetan Patel 47 Runs From 47 Balls, Showing Everyone Else Above Him In The Batting Order How Its Done. ;) :) :) :)
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It's All Over, Pack Your Bags, Get The Car Started. Lets Leave Early And Beat The Traffic. No Coming back From This One People. :o
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Another disgrace of an LBW against Pujara. Woeful.
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Who said all the wickets in this series were going to turn?? Excellent wicket with the seam bowlers on top.
Hopefully keep the lead under 260 and could be an interesting chase!
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12 out of 26 wickets so far have been lbw :o
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Rohit playing like an ODI player edging India towards a safe total
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Was about to say Latham playing an important knock here but he falls :(. Decent effort so far from NZ.
Pitch doing a lot less now and slowing down
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Ended up collapsing to 197 all out, really didn't take our chances in this game. Had them in trouble a few times.
Rare match in india where the seam bowlers were on top, missed KW massively.
India back to number 1 in tests
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On paper it's looks like New Zealand where drubbed in both matches but in reality they pushed India a lot harder than either South Africa or Australia have during their last tours to India. The absence of Williamson was obviously a massive loss. But the Kiwis can hold their heads up knowing they forced India to their limited at vasious stages.
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Third and final Test starts in Indore's Holkar Stadium in the early hours of Saturday morning. It will be the maiden Test at this venue.
India have more injury woes with Dhawan and Kumar the latest casualties. For New Zealand captain Kane Williamson is hoping to be fit.
India (probable): 1 M Vijay, 2 Gautam Gambhir, 3 Cheteshwar Pujara, 4 Virat Kohli (capt.), 5 Ajinkya Rahane, 6 Rohit Sharma, 7 R Ashwin, 8 Wriddhiman Saha (wk), 9 Ravindra Jadeja, 10 Mohammed Shami, 11 Amit Mishra/ Umesh Yadav
New Zealand (probable): 1 Tom Latham, 2 Martin Guptill, 3 Kane Williamson (capt.), 4 Ross Taylor, 5 Luke Ronchi, 6 Mitchell Santner, 7 BJ Watling (wk), 8 Matt Henry/Neil Wagner, 9 Jeetan Patel, 10 Ish Sodhi, 11 Trent Boult
Gambhir's first Test in two years. And Guptill is like the immovable object, score no runs but still get selected...
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And Guptill is like the immovable object, score no runs but still get selected...
See what you're saying. But name another class NZ opener? The mind boggles.
Perhaps our NZ mates could help us out?
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As a cricket fan I feel a little cheated in this series. Again India won the toss and batted 1st, where it is clearly a big advantage to win the toss and bat 1st. 3 tosses won=3 won test matches.. We where also deprived of seeing Williamson bat in the 2nd test. And again NO DRS!!!
Is it not time to make all test match series 3 or 5 games where you only toss the coin for the 1st test? whoever wins will then get choice of what to do in the 1st, 3rd and 5th tests. Can you really have India as world number one when winning the toss and batting is going a long way to deciding a match?
Surely test match cricket on certain continents shouldn't be about winning the toss and therefore win the test match??
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See what you're saying. But name another class NZ opener? The mind boggles.
Perhaps our NZ mates could help us out?
Rutherford......... I'll get my coat.
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See what you're saying. But name another class NZ opener? The mind boggles.
Perhaps our NZ mates could help us out?
There was a guy called Jeet Raval who was selected in Zimbabwe but didn't get a game. Never seen him play so no idea how good he is.
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As a cricket fan I feel a little cheated in this series. Again India won the toss and batted 1st, where it is clearly a big advantage to win the toss and bat 1st. 3 tosses won=3 won test matches.. We where also deprived of seeing Williamson bat in the 2nd test. And again NO DRS!!!
Is it not time to make all test match series 3 or 5 games where you only toss the coin for the 1st test? whoever wins will then get choice of what to do in the 1st, 3rd and 5th tests. Can you really have India as world number one when winning the toss and batting is going a long way to deciding a match?
Surely test match cricket on certain continents shouldn't be about winning the toss and therefore win the test match??
Losing the toss hasn't been the reason New Zealand has lost the series. In both the first and second Tests, the Kiwis ran through the Indian top order but then let their foot of the Indian throats and India's lower order bailed them out.
Even today India where 3 down cheaply and Rahane top edged one out to deep square leg. Henry failed to move quickly enough to take the potential opportunity. Had that chance been taken India could've been rolled for 150ish.
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267/3 at stumps on day 1. Pretty lively pitch. Kohli 103*, 13th Test hundred, and Rahane 79*. India's premier duo pushing New Zealand towards the whitewash. Unbeaten stand of 167. Kohli's Test career is a tad weird. Gets runs on the tough pitches and struggles on the flat ones.
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As a cricket fan I feel a little cheated in this series. Again India won the toss and batted 1st, where it is clearly a big advantage to win the toss and bat 1st. 3 tosses won=3 won test matches.. We where also deprived of seeing Williamson bat in the 2nd test. And again NO DRS!!!
Is it not time to make all test match series 3 or 5 games where you only toss the coin for the 1st test? whoever wins will then get choice of what to do in the 1st, 3rd and 5th tests. Can you really have India as world number one when winning the toss and batting is going a long way to deciding a match?
Surely test match cricket on certain continents shouldn't be about winning the toss and therefore win the test match??
How about operating the system we have now in the CC? Oppo bowls first or toss up?
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As a cricket fan I feel a little cheated in this series. Again India won the toss and batted 1st, where it is clearly a big advantage to win the toss and bat 1st. 3 tosses won=3 won test matches.. We where also deprived of seeing Williamson bat in the 2nd test. And again NO DRS!!!
Is it not time to make all test match series 3 or 5 games where you only toss the coin for the 1st test? whoever wins will then get choice of what to do in the 1st, 3rd and 5th tests. Can you really have India as world number one when winning the toss and batting is going a long way to deciding a match?
Surely test match cricket on certain continents shouldn't be about winning the toss and therefore win the test match??
Bit harsh not to give credit to how India played and blame it on toss. Even after winning the toss India didn't score big in any of the first innings. They didn't win because they won the toss, they just bowled better and batted better in second innings. NZ batted poorly in first innings, innings ended 100+ short every test.
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I like Mitchell Santer - however, he needs to use his front arm to be a pure SLA bowler, and to add a little subtlety to what he bowls - add him to a long session bowling with Jeeten Patel though, and it's a joy to watch!
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I like Mitchell Santer - however, he needs to use his front arm to be a pure SLA bowler, and to add a little subtlety to what he bowls - add him to a long session bowling with Jeeten Patel though, and it's a joy to watch!
Great post.
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Failed Left Arm Spinner - I know a good one when I see one :)
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What difference do you think the use of his front arm would make?
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What difference do you think the use of his front arm would make?
By using his front arm more, Santner would get more body into his action, thus in turn he'll be able to get more drift and spin.
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Crushingly boring test match...
No pace and no turn,if your going to play in india surely its better to be a raging turner after 5 overs rather than this?
Either that or do away with the toss and the oppo choose what to do in away games the world over-including England.
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Let's see when Ashwin and Jafeja bowl. I think this is great batting at the moment by two consummate players.
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The hatred for India is evident in some of the posts. Just to be clear both teams are subject to same rules.
When India often perform abysmally overseas, we don't blame the toss or pitch.
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It's easy to be parochial, I guess
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The hatred for India is evident in some of the posts. Just to be clear both teams are subject to same rules.
When India often perform abysmally overseas, we don't blame the toss or pitch.
No they blame the umpires or opposition for picking on them.
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When India often perform abysmally overseas, we don't blame the toss or pitch.
Took the Indian team years to stop moaning about the pitches in England after the last series, if they've even stopped moaning yet ;)
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Took the Indian team years to stop moaning about the pitches in England after the last series, if they've even stopped moaning yet ;)
Haven't seen much evidence of that but still 2 wrongs doesn't make a right.
Good cricket is good cricket despite who is playing and where.
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New Zealand sliding towards defeat after crumbling from 118-0 to 148-5. Ashwin turning the match irreversibly in India's favour with 4 wickets and running out Guptill.
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20 five-wicket haul in 39 tests is some amazing effort!
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Can anyone put into one paragraph what makes Ashwin such a good bowler, as I have never really seen him bowl. Is it height, prodigious turn, freaky wrist?
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Hey New Zealand's Putting Up A Good Fight, We Just Might Make A Go Of This Test. OOPS We're All Out, Never Mind Start The Car.
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Can anyone put into one paragraph what makes Ashwin such a good bowler, as I have never really seen him bowl. Is it height, prodigious turn, freaky wrist?
He's obviously a decent bowler, but it helps to have groundsmen who only produce sandpits ;)
15 of those 20 5 wicket hauls have been in India, with 3 of the remaining 5 in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. He's barely bowled in England or SA, but his numbers in Aus don't impress.
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He's obviously a decent bowler, but it helps to have groundsmen who only produce sandpits ;)
15 of those 20 5 wicket hauls have been in India, with 3 of the remaining 5 in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. He's barely bowled in England or SA, but his numbers in Aus don't impress.
This pitch is far from a 'sandpit'. If you actually watched it took flight and guile from Ashwin to get through the top order.
Also his record in Sri Lanka is better than Singh's and Sangakkara was Ashwin'a bunny...and that lad could play
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He's obviously a decent bowler, but it helps to have groundsmen who only produce sandpits ;)
15 of those 20 5 wicket hauls have been in India, with 3 of the remaining 5 in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh. He's barely bowled in England or SA, but his numbers in Aus don't impress.
Agreed, but without looking at the stats, I'm prepared to bet 5 English Pounds that a wide majority of Jimmy's wickets have come on Green tops. Doesn't really matter where the pitch is (to a certain extent), if it suits your style, you'll take wickets.
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I do think currently though, world cricket don't have one outstanding side. Most teams seem to be very strong at home and not so good away. And this is possibly reflected in the individual stats of bowlers too?
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Agreed, but without looking at the stats, I'm prepared to bet 5 English Pounds that a wide majority of Jimmy's wickets have come on Green tops. Doesn't really matter where the pitch is (to a certain extent), if it suits your style, you'll take wickets.
Of course, but Jimmy does have a record of wickets in all countries (if not all formats, he has always been whacked in white ball cricket down under) as do all of the top bowlers in history. The Indian press are making Ashwin out to be some sort of bowling version of Tendulkar when the reality is he's never really done much outside of India, and certainly Asia.
I knew there would be someone who would make out that the pitches India have been preparing for home series over the past 2 years have nothing to do with it. Ashwin has opened the bowling on a number of occasions in test matches in 2016, including on the first day of a test!
He's obviously very talented with bat and ball, but he can't be seen as some sort of demi god without taking wickets in England, Aus and SA. Probably have to add NZ to that list nowadays, Sri Lanka and WI are very poor currently so most teams would expect to travel there and win almost by default.
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I do think currently though, world cricket don't have one outstanding side. Most teams seem to be very strong at home and not so good away. And this is possibly reflected in the individual stats of bowlers too?
Can't agree with this more
how many sides do what the great west indies and Australian sides did and win home and away
England produce green swingers
Australia produce quick bouncy tracks
India produce turners from day 1
its the way of the world now, sides give themselves the best chance of winning at home and hope for the best away.
I would agree further with what was said earlier and give toss to the oppo then see if that helps or take pitch prep out of home board control and under an ICC rep
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Of course, but Jimmy does have a record of wickets in all countries (if not all formats, he has always been whacked in white ball cricket down under) as do all of the top bowlers in history. The Indian press are making Ashwin out to be some sort of bowling version of Tendulkar when the reality is he's never really done much outside of India, and certainly Asia.
I knew there would be someone who would make out that the pitches India have been preparing for home series over the past 2 years have nothing to do with it. Ashwin has opened the bowling on a number of occasions in test matches in 2016, including on the first day of a test!
He's obviously very talented with bat and ball, but he can't be seen as some sort of demi god without taking wickets in England, Aus and SA. Probably have to add NZ to that list nowadays, Sri Lanka and WI are very poor currently so most teams would expect to travel there and win almost by default.
A quick run through of Cricinfo's stats database tells you all you need to know...
Career averages
Mat Wkts BBI BowlAv 5/Inn
Overall: 39 213 7/66 24.81 20
In Asia: 26 172 7/66 20.54 18
ROW: 13 41 7/83 42.73 2
Clearly dominant in Asia.
As a comparison, and because his name was mentioned, here's Anderson in England, Asia and elsewhere
Career averages
Mat Wkts BBI BowlAv 5/Inn
Overall: 119 463 7/43 28.28 21
England: 69 296 7/43 25.6 17
Asia: 17 55 5/72 28.29 1
ROW: 33 112 6/42 35.28 3
Surprising that the ROW stat is so high, and that is bought down by averaging 24 in the WI. There is definitely a smaller range in Jimmy's numbers (roughly 10 runs per wicket between in England and ROW) compared to Ashwin in Asia and elsewhere which is at a difference of 22 runs per wicket!
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Can't agree with this more
how many sides do what the great west indies and Australian sides did and win home and away
England produce green swingers
Australia produce quick bouncy tracks
India produce turners from day 1
its the way of the world now, sides give themselves the best chance of winning at home and hope for the best away.
I would agree further with what was said earlier and give toss to the oppo then see if that helps or take pitch prep out of home board control and under an ICC rep
interesting comparing era's...the game has changed obviously and moved forward. The Aussies we beat in 2005 often touted as the greatest team ever.....but the Windies of the late 70's and 80's did not lose a test series for I think 10 years. they played in all conditions and were truly unbeatable, and most of the time did it with part time spin in the sub-continent. they are the greatest team in my book but no doubt Australian supporters will think they were(during their golden period)
England are as guilty as anybody producing wickets for Anderson and Broad, and when he played Swanny.
I honestly think now with the test teams records, the oppo should be awarded the toss if away
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So this forum has gone from suggesting Ashwin is crap, to comparing him to Anderson...
Seam bowlers always have the intimidation factor which spinners don't. Hence the difference in records outside both home conditions. Even the most basic tailender can slog a spinner around. Good luck trying to slog a seam bowler around if you ain't all that hot with the willow...
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So this forum has gone from suggesting Ashwin is crap, to comparing him to Anderson...
Seam bowlers always have the intimidation factor which spinners don't. Hence the difference in records outside both home conditions. Even the most basic tailender can slog a spinner around. Good luck trying to slog a seam bowler around if you ain't all that hot with the willow...
No one suggested Ashwin was crap.
And the Anderson thing is this forum to a tee, anyone dare discuss a bowler from a different nation and someone always has to bring up andersons poor Row record. Like it means we shouldn't be allowed to have a discussion because of it.
Just because Anderson doesn't travel well doesn't mean we can't discuss other bowlers on here!!!!
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Definitely not suggesting Ashwin is crap (at the end of the day you can only bowl when you're picked in the conditions given to you! make the most of them!), and the comparison isn't a like for like in terms of the bowler it's just seeing whether they really do have a much stronger home record than away. It's a discussion I wouldn't mind looking into for bowlers like Dale Steyn and Shane Warne (who has a poor record in India if I recall correctly...) and going further back to seeing how the great WI bowlers coped worldwide.
When I looked at the stats it really surprised me at the changes both bowlers have when you break it down.
I also looked at Swann's averages and he was pretty much at an average of 28 worldwide. I just put down Ashwin & Anderson as both get stick for being average at best outside of their favoured conditions. Feel free to research others! It's pretty interesting.
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So this forum has gone from suggesting Ashwin is crap, to comparing him to Anderson...
Seam bowlers always have the intimidation factor which spinners don't. Hence the difference in records outside both home conditions. Even the most basic tailender can slog a spinner around. Good luck trying to slog a seam bowler around if you ain't all that hot with the willow...
Again, not quite sure where you are coming from. Not many poor batting 10's or 11's in test cricket anymore.
Also don't many captains bowl their spinner if the late order are sticking around? I genuinely believe late order batsmen would rather face pace than a spinner on turning wicket. IMHO
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Can anyone put into one paragraph what makes Ashwin such a good bowler, as I have never really seen him bowl. Is it height, prodigious turn, freaky wrist?
His biggest asset is his ability to out think the batsman. Skill wise he is little better than other offies but nothing exceptional. His height is a definite advantage, turn with bounce is hardest to play.
PS: not sure if you are serious when you said havent seen Ashwin bowl.
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Has anyone said anything about his action? :)
Or maybe I am been too harsh. But certainly, at times, it looks a little suspect?
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Got bored reading "who is better" posts....
Great knock by Kohli. If you analyze his 211 - hit 20 boundaries and not a single 6, and ran 131 runs. A true test match innings.
Amazing how he is able to switch between formats so well. Failed in first 2 test matches and cameback strong in 3rd, thats what great batsmen do - they are able to comeback after few failures and never seem like they were in bad form. Average batsmen just continue to slip and eventually lose their spot.
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A quick run through of Cricinfo's stats database tells you all you need to know...
Career averages
Mat Wkts BBI BowlAv 5/Inn
Overall: 39 213 7/66 24.81 20
In Asia: 26 172 7/66 20.54 18
ROW: 13 41 7/83 42.73 2
Clearly dominant in Asia.
As a comparison, and because his name was mentioned, here's Anderson in England, Asia and elsewhere
Career averages
Mat Wkts BBI BowlAv 5/Inn
Overall: 119 463 7/43 28.28 21
England: 69 296 7/43 25.6 17
Asia: 17 55 5/72 28.29 1
ROW: 33 112 6/42 35.28 3
Surprising that the ROW stat is so high, and that is bought down by averaging 24 in the WI. There is definitely a smaller range in Jimmy's numbers (roughly 10 runs per wicket between in England and ROW) compared to Ashwin in Asia and elsewhere which is at a difference of 22 runs per wicket!
A slightly less quick look at statsguru will paint a vastly different picture.
Ashwin -
Mat Wkts BBI BowlAv 5/Inn
Overall: 39 213 7/66 24.81 20
In Asia: 26 172 7/66 20.54 18
ROW: 13 41 7/83 42.73 2
Anderson in his first 39 matches -
Mat Wkts BBI BowlAv 5/Inn
Overall: 39 134 7/43 34.26 6
England: 24 98 7/43 29.18 5
Asia: 5 12 4/40 45.41 0
ROW: 15 36 5/73 48.11 1
It's vastly disingenuous to compare the stats of one bowler just entering his prime to another whose career is beginning to end. Anderson's overall record in Asia is incredible without a doubt but it took him time and experience to get there. As did McGrath. Dale Steyn was very good in the subcontinent much quicker and that's just one other thing that sets him apart. And typically spinners take longer to mature than pace bowlers. Almost all great spin bowlers started off with average away records. If you can actually look at Ashwin's stats after setting down them chips on your shoulders you will find that they are in fact remarkable.
For those of you who haven't seen Ashwin a lot - I have watched him bowling from the time he was a teenager. When I first heard that he made it to the test team on the basis of his t20 bowling I was surprised. He mostly bowled flat and quick back then. I was even more surprised when he destroyed admittedly mediocre sides at home and effectively ended Harbhajjan's career. But not at all surprised when he failed against Peterson and Cook. I had even predicted India's defeat back then. And sure enough, he struggled and lost his place in the team as he failed horribly when the team toured. But what happened in the next one year or so, behind the scenes, is why so many people are so excited about Ashwin. He unveiled a more conventional action in the limited overs games before the tour to Australia. He still waddled liked a duck to the crease but the finish was totally different. He was more side on, his left arm was fully active and he was really throwing his body behind the ball. Suddenly, he was flighting the ball more, getting drift and dip. He played three matches in Australia that year and didn't get a lot of wickets but you could already see that he was vastly different bowler. This is just a guess on my part but I have a feeling in that one year he must have seen a ton of Graeme Swann's footage and broken down and distilled all the classical offspinner's virtues. He has been refining these virtues tirelessly these last couple of years. He has always got a lot of bounce and that combined with his turn and accuracy makes it very hard to cut him. He frequently bowls with 7-2 fields these days without a point and plugs the leg side completely. He is also landing the natural variation where the ball lands on the non-seam part of the ball and goes straight on frequently. Its nigh on impossible to pick out of the hand or play it off the pitch. He also bowls the arm ball and the carrom ball although he mostly uses these to keep good batsmen on their toes or to run through tailenders. While mastery of the classical off spinner's virtues make him so great what sets him apart is clearly his intellect. It is what allowed him to completely reinvent himself and it is what makes him so dangerous on the field. He is constantly analysing and setting plans. You don't really need stats to see how good he has become. If you had just watched him operate against Kane Williamson these last three innings, that would have sufficed. I'm guessing you will see what the fuss is soon enough. Or not ;) Will he be much better when he tours England and Australia next time? Almost certainly. Will he be running through sides? Probably not. I'd imagine the odd five wicket haul here and there but mostly he will command respect and tie up one end. And that would vastly improve the way our fast bowlers perform. Thus ends my mini primer on Ashwin.
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No matter how you spin it you cant compare stats between the two, one made debut at 21 and probably played those 39 games under the age of 25/26?, one made debut at 25 and played those 39 games up to the age of 30. Different age, different maturities, different levels of experience domestically etc etc. Pointless.
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As a comparison, and because his name was mentioned, here's Anderson in England, Asia and elsewhere
Career averages
Mat Wkts BBI BowlAv 5/Inn
Overall: 119 463 7/43 28.28 21
England: 69 296 7/43 25.6 17
Asia: 17 55 5/72 28.29 1
ROW: 33 112 6/42 35.28 3
Surprising that the ROW stat is so high, and that is bought down by averaging 24 in the WI. There is definitely a smaller range in Jimmy's numbers (roughly 10 runs per wicket between in England and ROW) compared to Ashwin in Asia and elsewhere which is at a difference of 22 runs per wicket!
Wow. Think I've lost my 5 English Pounds.
Them's good stats!
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We are absolutely cooked. We won't last 40 overs.
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Well, The Less Said About The 2nd Innings The Better.
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Ashwin's a machine. Line then up and he'll knock them down. 220 wickets in 39 Tests. The rate he's going, India has another 10 matches in this current home marathon(5 vs Eng, 4 vs Aus and 1 vs Bang) Ashwin could be up near 300 wickets
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Hmmm you do worry when our boys rock up
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No fun watching such one sided games..
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I Don't Think India Had To Get Out Of 3rd Gear In This Match. At No Point Were They Pushed, Very Disappointing From New Zealand. Taylor & Guptill Major Question Mark Going Forward.