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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: alexhilly1492 on September 13, 2016, 11:42:12 AM

Title: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 13, 2016, 11:42:12 AM
Another big player for Durham leaves, turned down a new 3 year deal and moved down south,

Surrey seem to be building a big squad unless there's going to be a few leaving this winter
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Buzz on September 13, 2016, 11:56:07 AM
There will have to be a few leavers from Surrey.
Davies is due to move to Somerset.

The Surrey top order next year will be mad
Burns
Stoneman
Borthwick
Sanga (expecting him to stay on)
Roy
Foakes
Ansari
Curran S
Curran T
Batty
Footitt, Meaker, Durnbach,

Plus loads of others. Sibley, the new spinner, Burke the alrounder... And a brilliant youth set up.

Personally I am not sure buying all these players in is necessary...
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Alvaro on September 13, 2016, 12:10:38 PM
One mitigating factor will be potential England call-ups (Roy, Foakes, Currans, Ansari, Meaker), and making sure they're aren't hit too hard.

Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Red Ink Cricket on September 13, 2016, 12:55:42 PM
Will be no one left for anyone else. Feel sorry for Durham, will end up in mid div 2 unless they have loads of youths coming through.

Is there still a wages cap? Surely Surrey must be well past that with the names they have
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: ppccopener on September 13, 2016, 01:23:45 PM
Surrey still have the cheque book Charlie mentality brought in by Chris Adams who mistakenly thought he was the Alex Ferguson of the cricket world.

up the middle....sex

 :)
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Cow_corner on September 13, 2016, 02:00:45 PM
Probably persuaded to go due to massive debts brought on by the soulless riverside. If Mark Wood doesn't get a central contract he's out of the door too I imagine.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on September 13, 2016, 02:11:25 PM
Surrey still have the cheque book Charlie mentality brought in by Chris Adams who mistakenly thought he was the Alex Ferguson of the cricket world.

It's amazing really, you have some counties struggling to operate due to limited finances, then Surrey who just their money at stuff. Maybe a franchise system is the way forward
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Churchy1989 on September 13, 2016, 02:28:52 PM
Somthing special happening at Surrey!

Just checking the annual memberships now, only 15 mins form work  :o
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Woodyspin on September 13, 2016, 02:37:09 PM
Somthing special happening at Surrey!

Just checking the annual memberships now, only 15 mins form work  :o

£150 for t20s and one day
£200 for county champs right?

friend was looking the other day
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: ppccopener on September 13, 2016, 02:38:17 PM
It's amazing really, you have some counties struggling to operate due to limited finances, then Surrey who just their money at stuff. Maybe a franchise system is the way forward

Surrey is the only County who don't care Jade Dernbach earns 50k a year, it's like the crumbs off the cake
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: rickjames on September 13, 2016, 02:47:38 PM
I pay £147 for my T20/One Day membership.

We're rich, do what we want and all that. Ah. And its not like we've sacked the academy off; Pope and Virdi recently signed their first pro deals
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Cow_corner on September 13, 2016, 02:49:32 PM
So Div 4 football or whatever they call it now wages?
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Alvaro on September 13, 2016, 04:08:12 PM
To be fair to Surrey, they have had a concerted youth policy for a number of seasons now and a lot of their squad is homegrown. As I mentioned above, it's now that those players who are interesting the selectors and justify Surrey looking for players of a certain quality to keep themselves in Div 1 and look to win it.

Marketing wise, Surrey are also the slickest county. Their embrace of T20, making it a roaring success it not to be sniffed at. They are getting people through the gates both in terms of club and country.

It's easy to bag Surrey, but they are profitable, grow their own, and look to support Team England. Compare them to Yorkshire, who whinge in public about having England players, when in reality their central contracts help keep the club solvent, and up until this season seem to be whote ball averse, and can't sell out their Test matches in a catchment area that holds the largest number of participating cricketers in the country.

Also, in defence of Dernbach, in county cricket, especially one day stuff, he is a bloody good bowler.

Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: jamesisapayne on September 13, 2016, 05:43:27 PM
Compare them to Yorkshire, who whinge in public about having England players, when in reality their central contracts help keep the club solvent, and up until this season seem to be whote ball averse, and can't sell out their Test matches in a catchment area that holds the largest number of participating cricketers in the country.

Yorshire? Whingers? Noooooo, never  ;)
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: ScottParko on September 14, 2016, 06:28:07 AM
To be fair to Surrey, they have had a concerted youth policy for a number of seasons now and a lot of their squad is homegrown. As I mentioned above, it's now that those players who are interesting the selectors and justify Surrey looking for players of a certain quality to keep themselves in Div 1 and look to win it.

Marketing wise, Surrey are also the slickest county. Their embrace of T20, making it a roaring success it not to be sniffed at. They are getting people through the gates both in terms of club and country.

It's easy to bag Surrey, but they are profitable, grow their own, and look to support Team England. Compare them to Yorkshire, who whinge in public about having England players, when in reality their central contracts help keep the club solvent, and up until this season seem to be whote ball averse, and can't sell out their Test matches in a catchment area that holds the largest number of participating cricketers in the country.

Also, in defence of Dernbach, in county cricket, especially one day stuff, he is a bloody good bowler.

Not sure how I feel about the Surrey grow their own statement. There was a lot of grumbles at the start of the season when they signed 25 year old South African Pillans and 18 year old South African McKerr
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Alvaro on September 14, 2016, 07:10:18 AM
Burns
Harinath
Sibley
Curran T
Curran S
Meaker
Burke
Ansari
Dernbach
Roy
Dunn

Ollie Pope made his debut in the RL semi final.

You can sign questionable players of iffy provenance too.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: RoCo Da Pixie on September 14, 2016, 07:54:16 AM
James Burke was picked up after being released by Somerset.

the rest are from the Surrey graduate system
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Manormanic on September 14, 2016, 08:51:58 AM
It's easy to bag Surrey, but they are profitable, grow their own, and look to support Team England. Compare them to Yorkshire, who whinge in public about having England players, when in reality their central contracts help keep the club solvent, and up until this season seem to be whote ball averse, and can't sell out their Test matches in a catchment area that holds the largest number of participating cricketers in the country.

How many players have Surrey grown in recent years?  Even in their current squad, which is a vast improvement on what went before, you have Sibley, Ansari and Burns who are genuinely homegrown and :

Overseas: Sangakkara, Finch
South African/Zimboks: Dernbach, Meaker, Pillans, McKerr, Roy, Curran x 2
Other Dubious Kolpakkers: Rampaul
Players Poached from Other counties: Davies, Batty, Footitt, Foakes, Burke

Wow, a whole THREE players.  Compare that with Yorkshire, who have produced Root, Bairstow, Lyth, Lees, Leaning, Gale, Bresnan, Rashid, Plunkett, Sidebottom, Fisher, Paterson, Shaw, Rhodes for England....
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Johnny on September 14, 2016, 09:08:35 AM
Wasn't Plunkett from Durham..?
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Buzz on September 14, 2016, 09:28:58 AM
How many players have Surrey grown in recent years?  Even in their current squad, which is a vast improvement on what went before, you have Sibley, Ansari and Burns who are genuinely homegrown and :

Overseas: Sangakkara, Finch
South African/Zimboks: Dernbach, Meaker, Pillans, McKerr, Roy, Curran x 2
Other Dubious Kolpakkers: Rampaul
Players Poached from Other counties: Davies, Batty, Footitt, Foakes, Burke

Wow, a whole THREE players.  Compare that with Yorkshire, who have produced Root, Bairstow, Lyth, Lees, Leaning, Gale, Bresnan, Rashid, Plunkett, Sidebottom, Fisher, Paterson, Shaw, Rhodes for England....

This is garbage.
Meaker and Durbach played Colts at Guildford, Roy at Reigate all three came through the youth system. As did Batty (!) Surrey have paid for the currans (x3) to go through school and they have come through the youth system. So actually very similar to Yorkshire, plus we have Sibley, Freddie Vdb (about to leave) and many others in the 2s who have come through the youth set up (which has won the u17 cup multiple times in recent years. Fact is many saffas play in the Surrey champo (especially at Wimbledon, Reigate and Guilford, 3 of the bigger clubs.
There are also many other former colts from Surrey at other counties

The difference is that Yorkshire tend to keep their colts

Separately it is sad that Davies will be leaving at the end of the year.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: ppccopener on September 14, 2016, 09:38:45 AM
is that confirmed about Davies?

good keeper and a classy bat. would be a good signing for another County if he does go
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: iand123 on September 14, 2016, 09:40:39 AM
is that confirmed about Davies?

good keeper and a classy bat. would be a good signing for another County if he does go

I dont think its been announced formally but there has been a load of talk in the press which usually is a pretty good sign. Believe i read he wants to keep more and isnt getting a chance at Surrey
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: rickjames on September 14, 2016, 09:57:03 AM
Was announced this morning https://www.kiaoval.com/steven-davies-leaves-surrey/ (https://www.kiaoval.com/steven-davies-leaves-surrey/)

Shame, but wish him all the best
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: iand123 on September 14, 2016, 12:09:35 PM
Was announced this morning https://www.kiaoval.com/steven-davies-leaves-surrey/ (https://www.kiaoval.com/steven-davies-leaves-surrey/)

Shame, but wish him all the best

His stats in his time at surrey are very good
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Rob580 on September 14, 2016, 12:59:31 PM
And here Essex are with 9 homegrown players (plus Tendo & Masters)

What a time to be alive  :D
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Manormanic on September 14, 2016, 01:33:15 PM
Wasn't Plunkett from Durham..?

He played for them because their academy poached him, but he is a Yorkshire lad born and bred.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: northernboy1987 on September 14, 2016, 01:56:39 PM
He played for them because their academy poached him, but he is a Yorkshire lad born and bred.

He's a Boro lad isn't he so only just Yorkshire by a few miles!
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: mdg20 on September 14, 2016, 02:25:55 PM
We could field 11 Kolpak players  or 11 academy graduates and the vast majority will find a reason to moan about our squad. Haters gonna hate.

Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 14, 2016, 02:32:14 PM
We could field 11 Kolpak players  or 11 academy graduates and the vast majority will find a reason to moan about our squad. Haters gonna hate.

Up the 'Rey!
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: rickjames on September 14, 2016, 02:35:15 PM
We could field 11 Kolpak players  or 11 academy graduates and the vast majority will find a reason to moan about our squad. Haters gonna hate.

Pretty much, jealousy all round from the others
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Manormanic on September 14, 2016, 09:23:53 PM
We could field 11 Kolpak players  or 11 academy graduates and the vast majority will find a reason to moan about our squad. Haters gonna hate.

Well...you could field 11 Homegrown players...or 10,9,8,7,6,5 etc...but why change the habit of a generation? You can hide behind crappy excuses like "moaning" all you like, but the facts of the matter are that Surrey have only ever bought in talent and success from elsewhere. In Yorkshire, we're proud that, England calls aside, we could field a world class side born or raised in the county.   Surrey would have to recruit to field *any* xi....
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: mdg20 on September 15, 2016, 12:12:14 AM
Well...you could field 11 Homegrown players...or 10,9,8,7,6,5 etc...but why change the habit of a generation? You can hide behind crappy excuses like "moaning" all you like, but the facts of the matter are that Surrey have only ever bought in talent and success from elsewhere. In Yorkshire, we're proud that, England calls aside, we could field a world class side born or raised in the county.   Surrey would have to recruit to field *any* xi....

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

You cant name a world class team born/raised in yorkshire that's a ridiculous notion. There isn't even a world class XI born/raised in England.
As for "only ever" bringing in talent, you are wrong, depending on how far back you want to go will depend on how big the list of Surreys England internationals will be.

The talent we have brought in mind hasn't bankrupted us to the embarrassing point were we've had to sell the contents of our museum.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Manormanic on September 15, 2016, 07:30:46 AM
You cant name a world class team born/raised in yorkshire that's a ridiculous notion. There isn't even a world class XI born/raised in England.
As for "only ever" bringing in talent, you are wrong, depending on how far back you want to go will depend on how big the list of Surreys England internationals will be.

Well, I was born in 1977, so lets use that as an arbitrary cut off.  How many England internationals have been born and raised by Surrey in that time?  I skimmed the list of test caps and found, at best, 10 (those in capitals were genuinely "born and raised" the rest less so) - BUTCHER A, BUTCHER M, STEWART, BICKNELL, TUDOR, THORPE, Jackman, Ward, Clarke, Richards.  Its not a bad list, but pales in comparison to the equivalent list of players Yorkshire has produced (deep breath) COPE, BAIRSTOW D, STEVENSON, ATHEY, SIDEBOTTOM A, MOXON, JARVIS, ILLINGWORTH, GOUGH, SILVERWOOD, Vaughan, HAmilton, HOGGARD, DAWSON, SIDEBOTTOM R, MCGRATH, PLUNKETT, BRESNAN, SHAHZAD, BAIRSTOW J, ROOT, LYTH, RASHID - and thats before you consider players like Batty, Cook, Whitaker, Mallender and Rhodes who came through our youth system before being poached elsewhere.    :D

Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Manormanic on September 15, 2016, 07:35:51 AM
This is garbage.
Meaker and Durbach played Colts at Guildford, Roy at Reigate all three came through the youth system. As did Batty (!) Surrey have paid for the currans (x3) to go through school and they have come through the youth system. So actually very similar to Yorkshire, plus we have Sibley, Freddie Vdb (about to leave) and many others in the 2s who have come through the youth set up (which has won the u17 cup multiple times in recent years. Fact is many saffas play in the Surrey champo (especially at Wimbledon, Reigate and Guilford, 3 of the bigger clubs.
There are also many other former colts from Surrey at other counties

With respect, you disagreeing doesn't make it any less true. That would be like me seeking to posit Gary Ballance as a product of Yorkshire because he played two seasons of Under 19s within the county (odd similarity actually, paying for a kids education as a means of poaching...)

Quote
The difference is that Yorkshire tend to keep their colts

Thats a recent development, more or less of the Graves era.  It used to be that we lost a lot of our best players because other counties could afford to poach them, and for a long time the XI we fielded would have lost comfortably to a compositve XI of Yorkshire lads at other counties.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: mdg20 on September 15, 2016, 11:11:44 AM
Well, I was born in 1977, so lets use that as an arbitrary cut off.  How many England internationals have been born and raised by Surrey in that time?  I skimmed the list of test caps and found, at best, 10 (those in capitals were genuinely "born and raised" the rest less so) - BUTCHER A, BUTCHER M, STEWART, BICKNELL, TUDOR, THORPE, Jackman, Ward, Clarke, Richards.  Its not a bad list, but pales in comparison to the equivalent list of players Yorkshire has produced (deep breath) COPE, BAIRSTOW D, STEVENSON, ATHEY, SIDEBOTTOM A, MOXON, JARVIS, ILLINGWORTH, GOUGH, SILVERWOOD, Vaughan, HAmilton, HOGGARD, DAWSON, SIDEBOTTOM R, MCGRATH, PLUNKETT, BRESNAN, SHAHZAD, BAIRSTOW J, ROOT, LYTH, RASHID - and thats before you consider players like Batty, Cook, Whitaker, Mallender and Rhodes who came through our youth system before being poached elsewhere.    :D

I wasn't comparing counties,  I was saying we have produced many England players. On a side your trying to claim a bloke who came through Durham(plunkett)  as Yorkshire through and through  which is ridiculous. But my argument wasn't that youve never produced England players it was about the fact Surrey have.

You've also swerved  the point that one of the most successful counties in the history of cricket with a test match ground and largest number of recreational cricketers than any other county(apparently) are £22m in debt and had to sell their museum collection.

You also haven't named the World Class Yorkshire XI
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: smilley792 on September 15, 2016, 11:18:15 AM
I see this thread ended up in the realms of pathetic fast


There's a few off you that don't agree, say your piece and move on, this back and forth stuff is what's bringing the forum down.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Manormanic on September 15, 2016, 11:47:15 AM
I wasn't comparing counties,  I was saying we have produced many England players. On a side your trying to claim a bloke who came through Durham(plunkett)  as Yorkshire through and through  which is ridiculous. But my argument wasn't that youve never produced England players it was about the fact Surrey have.

Plunkett played all his age group cricket in and for Yorkshire, the county of his birth, and was poached from our Academy.  I think thats pretty good grounds.

Quote
You've also swerved  the point that one of the most successful counties in the history of cricket with a test match ground and largest number of recreational cricketers than any other county(apparently) are £22m in debt and had to sell their museum collection.

No, I discounted it as irrelevant piffle. 
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: mdg20 on September 15, 2016, 11:47:57 AM
Surely discussion is what the whole point of the forum is? There has to be some back and forth otherwise it becomes a series of statements?

And it's always going to get a little petty at times when Yorkshire and Surrey fans come together, we are both (as a fan base) as arrogant as each other in thinking we are correct/the best :D :D
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: alexhilly1492 on September 15, 2016, 11:51:15 AM
I think that Surrey aren't near the top and Yorkshire appear to have thrown the title away neither are the best... And this is coming from a Notts fan :/

Either way I think it's both good for Scott and Surrey, if he can get into the Surrey team that is! Also seen today Davies has signed for Somerset
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Manormanic on September 15, 2016, 11:52:26 AM
Surely discussion is what the whole point of the forum is? There has to be some back and forth otherwise it becomes a series of statements?

And it's always going to get a little petty at times when Yorkshire and Surrey fans come together, we are both (as a fan base) as arrogant as each other in thinking we are correct/the best :D :D

What he said :)

Difference is, Yorkshire fans are actually right :)
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: mdg20 on September 15, 2016, 12:17:23 PM
I think that Surrey aren't near the top and Yorkshire appear to have thrown the title away neither are the best... And this is coming from a Notts fan :/

Either way I think it's both good for Scott and Surrey, if he can get into the Surrey team that is! Also seen today Davies has signed for Somerset

Doesn't matter that we actually are any good or not. We just think we are :D

Borthwick will walk into our 1st team. I think the Oval pitches will help both his batting and leg spin though, he's got a great chance to kick on in his career.
Davies is a great signing for Somerset, fantastic player in all 3 formats on his day. Somerset fans need to prepare themselves for the frustrations of him chipping the ball to mid on/off in the 40s though.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Felix Tito on September 15, 2016, 12:33:19 PM
TBH I guess most rival fans are jealous of Surrey CCC. They have a business model in place where that generate a very health profit via ticket sales and memberships. Their probably the most marketable side in county cricket. In some ways they aren't to dissimilar to Manchester United in the footballing world. Both generate money with helps them gain the players they want. Some might think it unfair, but that's how sports go. 
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: ppccopener on September 15, 2016, 12:59:47 PM
TBH I guess most rival fans are jealous of Surrey CCC. They have a business model in place where that generate a very health profit via ticket sales and memberships. Their probably the most marketable side in county cricket. In some ways they aren't to dissimilar to Manchester United in the footballing world. Both generate money with helps them gain the players they want. Some might think it unfair, but that's how sports go. 
cant stand Surrey, not jealous, just don't like them. I support Middlesex and we are about to win the Championship.

BUT........having seen a test match this year at the Oval I would say this:
the viewing as a spectator is fantastic, it's far better than Lords.
Transport to get there is easy.

and most importantly, the food and drink stalls are top class. yes it's better than Lords and far better priced. At Lords you need  a bank loan to have a beer.

There....I've got that off my chest

up the middle !!  sex sex sex   :)
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Felix Tito on September 15, 2016, 01:04:01 PM
cant stand Surrey, not jealous, just don't like them. I support Middlesex and we are about to win the Championship.

BUT........having seen a test match this year at the Oval I would say this:
the viewing as a spectator is fantastic, it's far better than Lords.
Transport to get there is easy.

and most importantly, the food and drink stalls are top class. yes it's better than Lords and far better priced. At Lords you need  a bank loan to have a beer.

There....I've got that off my chest

up the middle !!  sex sex sex   :)
C'mon everyone know Somerset are gonna be champions 😉
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 15, 2016, 01:15:23 PM
cant stand Surrey, not jealous, just don't like them. I support Middlesex and we are about to win the Championship.

BUT........having seen a test match this year at the Oval I would say this:
the viewing as a spectator is fantastic, it's far better than Lords.
Transport to get there is easy.

and most importantly, the food and drink stalls are top class. yes it's better than Lords and far better priced. At Lords you need  a bank loan to have a beer.

There....I've got that off my chest

up the middle !!  sex sex sex   :)

And membership is much cheaper! I live in noth London, but watch Surrey. It takes me only slightly longer to get to The Oval than it does to Lord's.  I go pretty regularly, but still cosider Northants 'my team' because I grew up watching them.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 15, 2016, 01:20:24 PM
I'll miss Davies. One of the most elegant batsmen I have seen.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: ppccopener on September 15, 2016, 01:23:54 PM
I'll miss Davies. One of the most elegant batsmen I have seen.

that's a very good signing for the Cidermen indeed....

a little bit unlucky not to play for England more. He's a class act.
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 15, 2016, 01:27:15 PM
that's a very good signing for the Cidermen indeed....

a little bit unlucky not to play for England more. He's a class act.

He still has ambitions. His reason for leaving, I believe.

V. cautious declaration by Middlesex?
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Julesoak on September 15, 2016, 01:48:05 PM
With respect, you disagreeing doesn't make it any less true. That would be like me seeking to posit Gary Ballance as a product of Yorkshire because he played two seasons of Under 19s within the county (odd similarity actually, paying for a kids education as a means of poaching...)

Jason Roy's family came to the UK when he was 10.

Tom Curran was 17, Sam 14 (though born in Northamptonshire), when they came over. Partly due to the fact their Dad died so Tony Greig wanted to help the family.

Meaker's family moved when he was 12.


Dernbach was 14.

There were plenty of SA families moving over this way in those days.


Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: ppccopener on September 15, 2016, 01:57:09 PM
He still has ambitions. His reason for leaving, I believe.

V. cautious declaration by Middlesex?

butler is ramping the quicks and already putting it into the stands. He's got some talent that bloke.

anything is possible  :) Championship cricket has had a real good year, and that can only be good long term
Title: Re: Borthwick to surrey
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 15, 2016, 02:21:00 PM
butler is ramping the quicks and already putting it into the stands. He's got some talent that bloke.

anything is possible  :) Championship cricket has had a real good year, and that can only be good long term

Agree. I think it's a good product.

Sick to death of hearing 'one man and a dog' clichés.