Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: alexhilly1492 on February 06, 2017, 09:42:41 AM
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Cook has resigned as test captain after 59 tests - wishes to continue playing!
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Good decision that
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Its a shame i think...
But on the plus side we need his runs for a long time yet so hopefully he can continue leading from the front
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Can't imagine anyone from the setup not wanting him in the team and opening the batting. Hope he can now just concentrate on scoring runs and letting everyone else bat around him.
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Jennings and Hameed to open - Cook a steadying influence at 3?
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He's a great batsman and deserves that spot in the side.
Never rated him as a skipper, when the times get tough he always seemed to run out of ideas quick, if he even had any ideas to start with.
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This could spell trouble for oppo opening bowlers........
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He's a great batsman and deserves that spot in the side.
Never rated him as a skipper, when the times get stuff he always seemed to run out of ideas quick, if he even had any ideas to start with.
youre right, he has not been the most influential captain
what he has done has led front the front and depending on your view how a captain should be, his strength was unquestionable
a great captain? no......
my favourite England captain was Nasser Hussein so that's where im coming from. Nasser changed us (England fans) into a team that had to stop losing before we started winning
and he embraced all sorts of difficult characters. He was a difficult character himself :)
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Right time to step down. And now he'll carry on get loads of runs for England which is a good thing.
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All hail the glorious new era of Root
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Absolutely the best decision. Simply focus on scoring big runs, which is what he does best. Successful if generally conservative captaincy. Let's hope Root is more inspired in his captaincy and that his run scoring isnt affected...
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Sad but definitely the right time.
Will be interesting whether he also drops down to 3 or not. Also whether the captaincy effects Roots batting or not.
The other thing is i wonder whether Essex will now see more of him - cos i think they are going to need it in Div 1 this year.
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Right decision. Nice bloke and all that, and a great batsman, but not sure he will be remembered as a great captain. I fear his skills are on the wane and this might be the beginning of the end.
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I see that KP has chimed in
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Time will tell but I think he'll go down as an underrated skipper, probably the right decision though as he clearly wasn't enjoying the job any more. Hopefully this means a few years left of a freed up Cook blocking and cutting bowlers around the world into submission!
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Time will tell but I think he'll go down as an underrated skipper, probably the right decision though as he clearly wasn't enjoying the job any more. Hopefully this means a few years left of a freed up Cook blocking and cutting bowlers around the world into submission!
yes I think so too. Hopefully he will be remember a s a good skipper once the dust has settled. We had some great Ashes success
really not convinced about Root im afraid, Strauss needs to think clearly who now does the job. I think Cook not playing one day cricket helped him do the captaincy for a long period.
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It's the right time for Cook he looked in India as if the job was taking its toll he looked weary
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yes I think so too. Hopefully he will be remember a s a good skipper once the dust has settled. We had some great Ashes success
really not convinced about Root im afraid, Strauss needs to think clearly who now does the job. I think Cook not playing one day cricket helped him do the captaincy for a long period.
I would like to see Root -
Tests - Play and captain
ODi's - Play only
T20 - Rested
I completely realise how good he is at T20 but Cooks career definitely got better and lasted longer after giving up the shorter format. But perhaps more importantly the schedules these days mean playing all 3 takes it's toll massively.
Plus the question - if he plays all 3 does he captain all 3 - as Morgan is also coming to an end of his cycle?
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I would like to see Root -
Tests - Play and captain
ODi's - Play only
T20 - Rested
I completely realise how good he is at T20 but Cooks career definitely got better and lasted longer after giving up the shorter format. But perhaps more importantly the schedules these days mean playing all 3 takes it's toll massively.
Plus the question - if he plays all 3 does he captain all 3 - as Morgan is also coming to an end of his cycle?
I think if he becomes Englands Captain retirement from T20 for Joe will become a natural progression.
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Let's start a Twitter campaign to the ECB!
#WoakesforTestCaptain
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Let's start a Twitter campaign to the ECB!
#WoakesforTestCaptain
Well he already as a reputation as a good team man
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Let's start a Twitter campaign to the ECB!
#WoakesforTestCaptain
For all formats yeah?
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For all formats yeah?
In for a penny, in for a pound!
#WoakesForEnglandCaptain
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This would have been the ideal point for James Taylor to take the reins after a couple of successful years cementing his spot in the middle order... dammit.
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This would have been the ideal point for James Taylor to take the reins after a couple of successful years cementing his spot in the middle order... dammit.
agreed, id like to see bairstow have the job but i think its too much pressure unless he drops the gloves as buttler has found a way back into the side
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Yes listening to Taylor on Sky he would have made a decent Captain
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agreed, id like to see bairstow have the job but i think its too much pressure unless he drops the gloves as buttler has found a way back into the side
If the press are to be believed England already have an underlying power base of which Bairstow is part.
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I always thought he was a decent skipper. Underrated.
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Cook was a relatively poor captain. Defence first rather than attack. In home conditions Anderson and Broad pretty much did as they pleased. Cook's limitations where exposed when it wasn't possible to bowl seam bowlers 90% of the time e.g. Subcontinent and West Indies. Quality batsman but his captaincy won't be missed.
I'd like to see someone naturally aggressive to become captain. Bairstow or Stokes(workload would be a concern)
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A captain who always had an excuse ready for losing, was happy to chuck others (kp, flower and carberry) under the bus.
Not to forget that he still thought he was good enough to be ODI captain after being replaced.
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Definitly benefitted initially from such a strong experienced line up- middle order of trott, kp, bell plus swann, broad, anderson at their peaks is going to help anyone.
I never got the impression he wanted or enjoyed the captaincy. Its not an easy job- all time greats of the game have tried and failed. For Cook to step into a role like that was for the good of the team and that deserves credit. His conservatism illustrated that hes not a natural at the role, hopefully root will bring more flare and natural instinct to the job.
I think he'll be remembered as a solid, if not imoressive captain who overall took the team on and helped to embed some future england stars and greats as the next generation. Having someone withnhis experience to bridge that gap may prove invaluable...
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Definitly benefitted initially from such a strong experienced line up- middle order of trott, kp, bell plus swann, broad, anderson at their peaks is going to help anyone.
I never got the impression he wanted or enjoyed the captaincy. Its not an easy job- all time greats of the game have tried and failed. For Cook to step into a role like that was for the good of the team and that deserves credit. His conservatism illustrated that hes not a natural at the role, hopefully root will bring more flare and natural instinct to the job.
I think he'll be remembered as a solid, if not imoressive captain who overall took the team on and helped to embed some future england stars and greats as the next generation. Having someone withnhis experience to bridge that gap may prove invaluable...
absolutely, but look at those names you mention.....quality players who could win games, look at Ponting, was it not Warne who said literally his grandma(must be in the genes) could captain the superb Aussie side in the late 90's and early 2000's.....?
Ponting has a great record as Captain, is he a great captain thou...not really. Mark Taylor did a lot with a more limited side IMHO.Steve Waugh? great leader-look at the players he had thou.
Cook has not hung on too long, he is now leaving a good period for someone new to settle in-sounds to me like a decision with the team in mind
As for Kevin Pieterson, views will be clouded, people can blame Cook all they like, and they will, he clashed with Flower not Cook(who KP actually respects massively if you have followed the saga)
Personally the 'divorce' while badly handed by the ECB was the best thing that could of happened to English cricket. The team moves on with younger players, and it has.
I don't expect others to agree and it's great there's different opinions on the forum, it's what makes it a good place.
:)
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^ i think thats all fair comment. Agree re mark taylor, built on what a truly great captain, Border, set in place.
Youve also got to have people who want to play for you. I look at recent collapses and part of me wonders, with all, the ability we have, do some players have the fight?
Different era now for root, he'll take a young side forward hopefully with the experienced old stager cook scoring stacks of runs. Christ I feel old!
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I think he went through good and bad periods as Captain. In fact...
Regrets, he had a few, But then again, too few to mention.
He did what he had to do, And saw it through without exemption
He planned each charted course, Each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this he did it the ECB's his way
Yes, there were times, he's sure Strauss we knew, When he bit off more than he could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt he ate it up and got told off spit it out
He faced it all and he stood tall And did it his way!
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Seriously, his decisions as a Captain were generally by the book and too predictable.
But there can be absolutely no doubt that as an opening Test batsman he is World Class!
So just hope he continues to produce the goods and would love to see him hit 15,000 or more :)
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be interesting to look at the stats of games he didn't win through being too cautious - possibly fewer than we imagine.
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A captain who always had an excuse ready for losing, was happy to chuck others (kp, flower and carberry) under the bus.
Not to forget that he still thought he was good enough to be ODI captain after being replaced.
I think his flaw was lets make the game safe first rather than when we have an opportunity to win become less cautious and go for it.
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It is good for Cook. He can focus on records now. I think the fans will see a better, more aggressive batsman in Cook.
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It is good for Cook. He can focus on records now. I think the fans will see a better, more aggressive batsman in Cook.
I honestly hope he doesn't decide to focus on records!
I'd rather see him play for the team, and let go when the time comes. I'd hate to see him hanging around for a few extra years trying to break Sachin's record, if he wasn't performing for the team.
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^ I agree. I meant "while playing for the team and the greater good". :) I don't think two aims have to be mutually exclusive.
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I think his flaw was lets make the game safe first rather than when we have an opportunity to win become less cautious and go for it.
I'd say this is mostly due to not having a world class bowling line up. Had he had swann and Anderson , Broad at their peak or injury free he he may have been willing to take more of a risk. . It's hard to be attacking with a only 2 experienced bowlers whom are frequently injured of late.
Vaughan may have been more tactically aware but he had a pretty decent bowling attack, and the same for Strauss.
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Good from Dobell as usual: http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/1081327.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/1081327.html)
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Cook has done okay when he had the players to do so - but when he was faced with dwindling resources, he struggled to make the most of them, and I do think that some younger players would have come on better under a more flexible captain.
Hopefully, he will continue to contribute runs and catches for a good few years yet - he is definitely a test class batsman, of that there is no doubt. Equally hopefully, the succession can be managed in such a way as to avoid wrecking another world class talent.
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I'd say this is mostly due to not having a world class bowling line up. Had he had swann and Anderson , Broad at their peak or injury free he he may have been willing to take more of a risk. . It's hard to be attacking with a only 2 experienced bowlers whom are frequently injured of late.
Vaughan may have been more tactically aware but he had a pretty decent bowling attack, and the same for Strauss.
Vaughan was a good captain,tactically astute and of course,forever famous for breaking the aussies in 2005,strauss also very astute and brought a new culture to the team that got us to number 1.
It would be interesting if Cook had the 2005 bowling attack instead of the current one would he be viewed differently..? True...no broad or anderson...
Personally the 2005 bowlers were the best ive seen as a unit for England that i can remember..we have had good bowlers, have we had that good at the same time?
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Also what Cook didn't have was a world class all rounder
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Also what Cook didn't have was a world class all rounder
I'm not even going there on a certain player, but if Ben Stokes isn't a world class all-rounder then I don't know who is!
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I think the big difference between 2005 and the current vintage is that the 2005 attack had all bases covered - you had three guys pushing 90mph, a genuine swing bowler and a good containing spinner. The seamers were a good mix of methods - bounce, reverse swing etc. In contrast, England now have Anderson and Broad - both excellent bowlers but requiring some help from conditions - and in many cases a near identikit clone. There is no extreme pace, nor is there much in the way of bounce.
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I'm not even going there on a certain player, but if Ben Stokes isn't a world class all-rounder then I don't know who is!
I think Ben will be but up to now has he been consistent
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I think the big difference between 2005 and the current vintage is that the 2005 attack had all bases covered - you had three guys pushing 90mph, a genuine swing bowler and a good containing spinner. The seamers were a good mix of methods - bounce, reverse swing etc. In contrast, England now have Anderson and Broad - both excellent bowlers but requiring some help from conditions - and in many cases a near identikit clone. There is no extreme pace, nor is there much in the way of bounce.
Yes fingers crossed for a fit Mark Wood
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Yes fingers crossed for a fit Mark Wood
Aye, that would make a massive difference. As would Matt Fisher having an injury free breakthrough season.
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I think the big difference between 2005 and the current vintage is that the 2005 attack had all bases covered - you had three guys pushing 90mph, a genuine swing bowler and a good containing spinner.
All hail the 'King of Spain'
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Also what Cook didn't have was a world class all rounder
He had 2, Ben Stokes and Chris Woakes... ;)
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I feel his batting will be much better now...definitely what eng needs from him at the moment..
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All hail the 'King of Spain'
Giles was never a special bowler, but he put the ball where he planned to better than 95% of the time, and he was therefore the right spinner for that side. Lets face it, for all we might argue Ali vs Rashid (vs anyone else currently within the selectorial eyeline really) the fact is, if Giles was 28 and playing now, he would walk into the side.
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if Giles was 28 and playing now, he would walk into the side.
Absolutely!
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As good a batsman as he is bad as a captain.
Hope he resurfaces as the (Aussie killing) run machine we all know and love.
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He had 2, Ben Stokes and Chris Woakes... ;)
The Hoddle and Waddle of cricket :D
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Giles was never a special bowler, but he put the ball where he planned to better than 95% of the time, and he was therefore the right spinner for that side. Lets face it, for all we might argue Ali vs Rashid (vs anyone else currently within the selectorial eyeline really) the fact is, if Giles was 28 and playing now, he would walk into the side.
That will do me, Lyon gets called a clubby and wouldn't make the England side, yet a guy with 140 test wickets at 40 would.
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Cook was a poor tactical captain IMO. Had little feel for a game and seemed to be overly reliant on what the coaches told him. Still a fine batsman but as a skipper he was pretty ordinary. Joe Root will be a far more attacking option, probably along similar lines to Michael Vaughan, who I rated very highly.
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The Hoddle and Waddle of cricket :D
We just need to get Foakes in behind the sticks now!
"In comes Woakes, he bowls, it's hit into the on side. That's well fielded by Stokes, who gets a quick return in and that's an excellent take by Foakes"
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That will do me, Lyon gets called a clubby and wouldn't make the England side, yet a guy with 140 test wickets at 40 would.
I'd take Giles over Lyon just so there wasn't the constant "Niiiiiccccccccceeeeeee Gaaaaarrrrrrrrry!" from behind the stumps...
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That will do me, Lyon gets called a clubby and wouldn't make the England side, yet a guy with 140 test wickets at 40 would.
Just for you...Lyon is a clubbie. And no, he wouldn't make the England side - why replace a pie chucker who can bat with one who can't? :)
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We just need to get Foakes in behind the sticks now!
"In comes Woakes, he bowls, it's hit into the on side. That's well fielded by Stokes, who gets a quick return in and that's an excellent take by Foakes"
If only we had a Noakes or Oakes!
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Anyone see how much Lyon put himself up for in the IPL auction...Chuckled to myself! Listed himself in the 2nd highest bracket
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If only we had a Noakes or Oakes!
They'd only get selected if they were good blokes
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They'd only get selected if they were good blokes
It's been the England way for some time. Select the good team men
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It's been the England way for some time. Select the good team men
if that was true Jennings would never of got picked . There seems a myth on this forum England only pick public schoolboys who go round each others houses for Xmas.
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Giles was never a special bowler, but he put the ball where he planned to better than 95% of the time, and he was therefore the right spinner for that side. Lets face it, for all we might argue Ali vs Rashid (vs anyone else currently within the selectorial eyeline really) the fact is, if Giles was 28 and playing now, he would walk into the side.
Watched Giles throughout his England career never thought he was that great just the best of the rest that was around at that time.
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Watched Giles throughout his England career never thought he was that great just the best of the rest that was around at that time.
In an era with Shaun Udal, a young Swanny and Gereth Batty that's a big shout
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Watched Giles throughout his England career never thought he was that great just the best of the rest that was around at that time.
I played against Giles when he was making his way at Warwickshire in the Birmingham league. Was more of a batsman than slow bowler as a teenager but his work ethic stood out. He also worked very hard on his fielding and became a standout in the gully. He's a good example of making the most of what you've got.
Having started as a quick bowler at Surrey he had a good quicker ball and got a lot of bounce and turn on late summer club wickets. We talk about how England have been unable to replace Swann but Giles was the prototype of a spinner bowling "dry" to allow the seamers to rotate. Agree that England would love to have him back now.
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Watched Giles throughout his England career never thought he was that great just the best of the rest that was around at that time.
If you read my original post, I didn;t argue that he was a great bowler, merely that he was the right spinner for that England side. They had four attacking, wicket taking quicks, so needed a spinner would could bowl dry whilst picking up the occasional wicket as batsmen sought to see him as their escape valve. He did that very well - and did in fact turn the ball more than most people expected when on a helpful wicket. A similar analogy would be the way that Paul Harris proved useful for South Africa.
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In an era with Shaun Udal, a young Swanny and Gereth Batty that's a big shout
Don't think it was that big a call they all had there opportunity around the same time but didn't cut it
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Don't think it was that big a call they all had there opportunity around the same time but didn't cut it
pre-DRS was a difficult time to be an off spinner, unless you had found a way to get away with chucking in a doosra!
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Apologies for dIegressing but if Derek Underwood the best spinner ever to wear an England shirt had had DRS he would have been unplayable.
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Apologies for dIegressing but if Derek Underwood the best spinner ever to wear an England shirt had had DRS he would have been unplayable.
youre going back now Senior :)
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Yes Derek underwood a bowler who could wear a hole in. The pitch by pitching the ball in the same spot.
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Don't think it was that big a call they all had there opportunity around the same time but didn't cut it
Shaun Udal didn't make his Test debut until he was 36, he didn't get the opportunity he deserved at all.
Gareth Batty made his debut against Bangladesh in October 2003 and played 7 Tests between then and June 2005, so he was hardly given a fair chance considering he was in and out of the side in this time.
Graeme Swann played a single ODI in 1999, but his behavior meant he fell out of favor with the powers that be, so he wasn't exactly given an opportunity until he made his Test Debut 9 years later!
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Shaun Udal didn't make his Test debut until he was 36, he didn't get the opportunity he deserved at all.
Gareth Batty made his debut against Bangladesh in October 2003 and played 7 Tests between then and June 2005, so he was hardly given a fair chance considering he was in and out of the side in this time.
Graeme Swann played a single ODI in 1999, but his behavior meant he fell out of favor with the powers that be, so he wasn't exactly given an opportunity until he made his Test Debut 9 years later!
Not just his approach
Swann was a different bowler in 2008 by then he had mastered his art.
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Root v Kohli v Smith v Williamson v ABdV (if only)
It is a golden time for cricket
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Root v Kohli v Smith v Williamson v ABdV (if only)
It is a golden time for cricket
Golden ??
Really?
Maybe in white ball cricket but certainly for from golden in test cricket.
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That Indian Top 7
Ashwin & Jadeja
Rabada & de Kock
Warner
Cook unburdened
Hameed
Bairstow/Buttler/Ali/Stokes
The rise of Afghanistan & Ireland
Australia looking annoyingly balanced AND dangerous
Pakistan being, well, Pakistan
With the FOUR best players of their generation as captains
The glass is half full...
Falling crowds
Kolpak desertion
Windies & Sri Lanka in 'transition'
UK tickets prices way too high
Not on free to air TV
Admittedly not perfect!!!
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for all those on here that see the England team as some sort of amateur private club it's now interesting (to me anyway) how the KP saga is now coming out-what really happened, presuming Cook is telling the truth(which I believe he is)
it was Cook and Prior who got Pieterson back into the England side after the 'textgate' issues. Cook got the blame and took some almighty horrible stuff throw his way including threats against his family, and then you have Piers bloomin Morgan thrown in as well.
Now Cook says the ECB hung him out to dry.....
Cook still has an England career ahead of him but can now speak freely.
It all comes out in the wash as me old mam says
:)
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Just read cook blaming the ECB for the KP decision - thought cook had said it's either KP or him.
Bit bizarre that!. Cook's a good man at shifting the blame?
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To be fair, pretty sure no one actually believed it was cook's decision alone?
I would imagine, like cook says, there were several people involved in making that decision over KP. But unfortunately Cook seems to have had to take most of the blame!
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Just read cook blaming the ECB for the KP decision - thought cook had said it's either KP or him.
Bit bizarre that!. Cook's a good man at shifting the blame?
Serious question as it was years ago and I've forgot most donut.
Was it confirmed cook ever said that? Or just rumours.
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worth remembering the main fall out was KP and Flower and Strauss
you can never be sure with these things but to my knowledge Cook and Prior were the main 2 players bridging the gap for KP to return
for Cook to then take the blame is beyond belief
Cook now says we was hung out to dry, which I reckon is exactly how it was
Flower wanted KP out for undermining him. there was one hellva personality clash there, there wasn't with Cook and KP
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worth remembering the main fall out was KP and Flower and Strauss
you can never be sure with these things but to my knowledge Cook and Prior were the main 2 players bridging the gap for KP to return
for Cook to then take the blame is beyond belief
Cook now says we was hung out to dry, which I reckon is exactly how it was
Flower wanted KP out for undermining him. there was one hellva personality clash there, there wasn't with Cook and KP
indeed. the cook and kp relationship always seemed ok
looks like ecb just needed to shift the blame onto someone other than themselves!
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read that Cook first made the decision to resign as Captain on the plane back from India following the 4 - 0 defeat in the tests he states he know longer has the energy to do the job over cooked maybe.
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He looked 'overcooked' during interviews I thought.
Never really rated him as a captain, but batting wise, he's a star.
This thing with KP is starting to wear thin now, it's in the past, hopefully lessons have been learned ,(I doubt it) and Root will be up to the job
It will be interesting to see how he copes
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related to cook standing down... its going to make for interesting viewing at Essex.
With Chorpa, Nick Browne, Cook, Westley, Bopara, Tendo, Lawrence, Foster, Wheater... that's a lot of batsmen to fit into the playing XI?
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He looked 'overcooked' during interviews I thought.
Never really rated him as a captain, but batting wise, he's a star.
This thing with KP is starting to wear thin now, it's in the past, hopefully lessons have been learned ,(I doubt it) and Root will be up to the job
It will be interesting to see how he copes
Roots biggest problem will be handling the ego's of Broad and Anderson
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Roots biggest problem will be handling the ego's of Broad and Anderson
Anderson as good as admitted this himself in his recent interview "It can be a difficult situation for a vice-captain when the captain goes off, you're in charge and myself and Stuart [Broad] might not make it that easy to go up and talk tactics. However he's done that and he's been good."