Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Latest Matches => Topic started by: WABH-J on December 30, 2017, 11:47:43 AM
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It seems to me that the England and Wales Cricket Team will be at an important decision point after the current Ashes series. After a well deserved thumping they will want revenge on home turf. So what to do with the more senior players? Do they stretch them out for a swansong or do they bring in fresh? It seems to me that if they choose to do the latter it’s a decision that needs to be made now. It’s no good chopping in new players on the doorstep of the Ashes - better to blood them in 2018 and get a few caps under their belts.
Here are the ages of the current team:
Alistair Cook 33
Mark Stoneman 30
James Vince 26
Joe Root 27
Dawid Malan 30
Jonny Bairstow 28
Moeen Ali 30
Chris Woakes 28
Stuart Broad 31
James Anderson 35
Therefore here is my long shot estimate for Ashes 19:
1: Cook/Hameed
2: Stoneman
3: Vince
4: Root
5: Malan
6: Bairstow
7: Woakes
8: Curran EDIT: Stokes in for Curran, Woakes down 1, pending disciplinary/ pending future charges!
9: Wood
10: Porter
11: Crane/ Ali depending on pitch - Ali to bat 7 if played
Concerns: Long Tail. Inexperienced attack (but if played soon could get a few games before the Ashes19). Still not sold on Vince.
Guess your teams and justify your choices below!
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Where is Stokes? In Pentonville Prison?
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Where is Stokes? In Pentonville Prison?
Knew I’d missed someone! Although it’s possible let’s be honest!
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Go be the fact it’s the england selectors I wouldn’t be too surprised if we go in to the first test with:
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Roland jones/broad
Anderson
But would like to see something like:
Cook/hameed/stoneman
Cook/hameed/stoneman
Bairstow
Root
Malan
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Roland jones
Overton
Curran
Anderson and broad will play though
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1.cook
2.stoneman
3.malan
4.root
5.stokes
6.bairstow
7.ali
8.woakes
9.curren
10.wood
11.archer
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We all know broad and Anderson will be there! But it's a bit of fun picking a different team👍
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Cook
Stoneman / Brown
Burns
Root
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Curran
Broad / Wood
Anderson / Porter
Crane / Ali / Leach
Prob more of what id like to see than what we will see. Only two seasons away so could be Broad and Andersons last Hurrah if they stay fit and dont drastically drop in form.
I think stoneman is brilliant and has done well so far but he will need to start scoring some tons next summer to keep his place. Nick Brown deserves a chance at some point.
Rory Burns has been consistent the last few seasons and should be in the squad now (along with Brown). Genuine top order batsmen comfortable opening and at 3, determined gritty can score runs all round the ground good across all three formats too so well adapted for different situations.
Root, Bairstow and Stokes need no explaining.
Foakes is a fantastic keeper will offer more with the gloves than bairstow, is also a very handy batsmen in all situations. Him keeping leaves Bairstow to concentrate on scoring big runs.
Again woakes doesn't need much explanation.
Curran - if he continues to develop at International level at the speed he did at county level he'll be a great player. Early days but if he can hold onto his spot for next test and then start of summer i think he'll be a regular for a few years. (plus i cant bring myself to pick that racist thug Overton).
If Anderson/Broad aren't about then Wood is probably next in line and Porter again has proved his quality in Div 1 of CC and deserves a chance.
Really cant work out the spinner, if Ali can find his mojo again then it'll be him, if its not and the ECB continue ignoring the development of spinners itll be Crane as he's next in line. It probably should be Leach of Somerset if not Ali. With my bias brown Surrey cap on a real leftfield pick would be Amar Virdi.
Edit: of course i've now just realised one of those would have to be 12th man :D
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Few wild cards-Dan Lawrence, Tom Abell (Reckon he will have a pearler this year after all he went through this season) and Jofra Archer (When does he become English :))
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Few wild cards-Dan Lawrence, Tom Abell (Reckon he will have a pearler this year after all he went through this season) and Jofra Archer (When does he become English :))
Rate Dan Lawrence. Jorfa could be an all-time great!
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Go be the fact it’s the england selectors I wouldn’t be too surprised if we go in to the first test with:
Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Roland jones/broad
Anderson
But would like to see something like:
Cook/hameed/stoneman
Cook/hameed/stoneman
Bairstow
Root
Malan
Stokes
Ali
Woakes
Roland jones
Overton
Curran
Anderson and broad will play though
If all fit tand if they want to the first one
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Jofra Archer isn't eligible until 2022
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This is a post I made on the Ashes thread...
"When you are talking about retirement of the big established players you need to look further ahead.
Example - they aren't going to retire before an English summer because that's easy to play in at home and a better chance of wickets/runs.
Look further ahead and you see England are due to tour Sri Lanka in Oct-Nov 2018 and West Indies in Jan-Feb 2019 - possibly 2 of the easiest away tours there are at the moment."
Anderson, Broad and Cook will all be around for the Ashes 2019 and will possibly use it as a last hurrah I think.
Obviously Root, Bairstow, Stokes and Woakes will be there.
So that leaves the usual batting spots, spinner and 4th seamer spot up for grabs.
18 months is a long time in cricket but Stoneman and definitely Malan have done well with the bat so it will be their spots to lose.
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I don’t think Broad, Anderson and Cook will be around for that one.
Don’t discount Roland-Jones when fit. I think he will slot into a Angus Fraser type role and he has the nack of picking up wickets.
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I don’t think Broad, Anderson and Cook will be around for that one.
Don’t discount Roland-Jones when fit. I think he will slot into a Angus Fraser type role and he has the nack of picking up wickets.
I think TRJ will be the other seamer once fit definitely and will take lots of wickets next summer.
The ECB are going to let Cook, Anderson and maybe Broad retire on their own terms and they are going to want to go out with a bang so it might be the end of our 2017 summer vs India at the Oval.
But we don't want a situation like Oz had when Warne, McGrath etc... all retired at the same time and it screwed the team over.
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I'm sure I read somewhere there was the possibility of fast-tracking J.Archer so that he is eligible sooner- 5th Test would be nice!
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Sam Curran, Sam Northeast and Dan Laurence will all be in the team.
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Northeast is a terrific player, but will be 30 by the time these teams are picked.if he got picked next summer at 29 it's not too late, but it's late to get a call up.
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I think I meant Joe Denly rather than Sam, sorry! But both are terrific players.
Browne at Essex is also a good player.
The real question is who will be the quicks.
Will Overton ever be fit.
Who will be the bolter.
How good will Archer actually be...
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Northeast is rumoured to be moving counties.
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Northeast is rumoured to be moving counties.
Moving and getting very big Division 1 runs is the only chance Northeast has I reckon. Otherwise he would have been picked by now.
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Denly is an excellent player indeed Buzz, comfortably older than Northeast thou so that's even more of a long shot.
northeast was tipped for the very top by none other than Atherton when still at Harrow as he broke all the records there and was outstanding. Maybe missed the boat thou when we tried a few in the middle order after Trott,kp and bell retired fairly close together.
If he is moving Counties @Bats_Entertainment maybe it's a last shot to grab the selectors attention-maybe like Stoneman.
On the bowling front Carter (I think) the Sussex quick left armer hopefully will come thru. either I've got the wrong info on Archer of most of the forum have, he can't play for England until 2021.
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I'm sure they don't fancy his technique at the highest level.
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Too far to speculate. But i suspect that it could be:
1. Cook
2. Stoneman
3. Hameed/vince
4. Root
5. Malan/Northeast
6. Stokes
7. Bairstow
8. Ali
9. Woakes
10. Broad/or one of several others!!
11. Anderson
If Anderson can stay injury free i still think he is a genius in English conditions! Unsure if Broad will still be considered a real contender as he is seems to be losing his touch and consistency! Suspect there may be one or two changes to that setup IF a couple of cticketers play well enough to force their way in!!
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maybe like Stoneman.
Maybe same county as Stoneman.
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Hameed, Lawrence and Foakes may well be in the team. I'd also like to think we might find a proper spin bowler or two.
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Indeed it is @Bats_Entertainment .
Ali is going to be dropped for Sydney, as well as he has done for England this is a poor tour for him.
That means Crane plays by default not by choice....and that's a pretty poor state of affairs.
Even more than finding a quick, we need to find some spinners.
Crane to me looks a good bet going forward, but he has not played a test and many before him went downhill.
What happened to Scott borthwick? Havnt heard anything of him in 2 years
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Scott Borthwick has been considered a batsman who could bowl a bit, for a while now. He moved to Surrey, but found himself dropped towards the end of the season. He looked like an out of form batsman who couldn't bowl at all.
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It's quite possible that in readiness for the Aussies Anderson and Broad won't go to the Windes in Jan and Feb 2019
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I would love to see someone start working with George Garton right now.
You want a bolter? A quick, skiddy, slippery left arm over with a funky action - that should do it!
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I know a few are very excited about both the Overtons. Craig is the bowling all rounder and Jamie is rapid but injury prone at the moment.
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Mason Crane needs to be put in the team after the current series - even if he is carried through a few Test matches to start with. Imagine the options an established leg spinner would give you home and away. This last days play just gone is one example of where it would be handy. Leg spinners create chances - Yasir Shah did well on english pitches recently and Crane turns his leggy more than him. With Stokes and Woakes as the all rounders you can afford to get Crane in.
I would love to see someone start working with George Garton right now.
You want a bolter? A quick, skiddy, slippery left arm over with a funky action - that should do it!
Agree, I love his action and he bowls fast.
An attack of Woakes, Stokes, Archer, Garton, Crane would look pretty good to me down the line. I wouldnt put it past Anderson to still be there in 2019 though
Would also love to know the resident Yorkshiremans view on whether Bairstow should continue keeping or play as a batsman. Does it hinder him? If so Foakes comes in at 7.
Another thing - it really is a shame that Finns pace and confidence dropped off. He should be the man ready to step in when Broad calls it a day.
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I'm not sure a fragile quick is really that much of a helpr at the moment - I refer you to the reticence to select Mr Wood.
A fit quick in a 5 man attack would be nice.
If I could fast forward a year or two, how exciting would be -
Stokes
Roland-Jones
Wood
Garton
Crane
Plenty of variety and bats down to 10.
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Would also love to know the resident Yorkshiremans view on whether Bairstow should continue keeping or play as a batsman. Does it hinder him? If so Foakes comes in at 7
You called?
I think this is one of the big questions around the make up of the England side. On the one hand, history has proved that keeping and being a frontline bat is not a long term option. On the other, YJB has been clear that he embraces it.
Eventually, the decision will be forced - he's pushing six foot, eventually wear and tear on either/or knees and back will make him a batsman only. Personally, I'd force it sooner, as soon as Stokes is back. Cook/Stoneman/Malam/Root/Bairstow/Stokes/Foakes looks right to me.
In terms of the next Ashes... tricky to call. Bolters for me are Garton and Matt Fisher (potentially a quicker Broad from back when Broad could bat). The more interesting thread would be our 2021 side.
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You called?
I think this is one of the big questions around the make up of the England side. On the one hand, history has proved that keeping and being a frontline bat is not a long term option. On the other, YJB has been clear that he embraces it.
Eventually, the decision will be forced - he's pushing six foot, eventually wear and tear on either/or knees and back will make him a batsman only. Personally, I'd force it sooner, as soon as Stokes is back. Cook/Stoneman/Malam/Root/Bairstow/Stokes/Foakes looks right to me.
As i suspected really, he hasnt let England down by any means in the role but I feel he could add 10 runs onto his average as a pure batsman. I think Alec Stewart was in a similar position at some point in his career whilst batting in the top 3
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As i suspected really, he hasnt let England down by any means in the role but I feel he could add 10 runs onto his average as a pure batsman. I think Alec Stewart was in a similar position at some point in his career whilst batting in the top 3
Bairstow is also the one guy who I think has the technique to bat at 3
He also has the allround game. Defensively strong enough to come in at 0-1 and the attaching prowess to come in at 150-1
Also opens in Odis so used to being up there
Perfect number 3 with or without the gloves! Means we can bring in a number 6/7 specialist bat like hales or Roy
Imagine a middle order of root Malan stokes hales/Roy woakes it’s be back to the strength of 2005
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Bairstow is also the one guy who I think has the technique to bat at 3
He also has the allround game. Defensively strong enough to come in at 0-1 and the attaching prowess to come in at 150-1
Also opens in Odis so used to being up there
Perfect number 3 with or without the gloves! Means we can bring in a number 6/7 specialist bat like hales or Roy
Imagine a middle order of root Malan stokes hales/Roy woakes it’s be back to the strength of 2005
There is no way Bairstow can keep and bat 3. Can you imagine keeping for 2 days then possibly batting in the 1st over.
I never knew how Stewart did it and ultimately thats why he gave keeping up.
Bat at 5 and keep a definite possibility and Malan maybe bat 3.
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Perfect number 3 with or without the gloves! Means we can bring in a number 6/7 specialist bat like hales or Roy
Imagine a middle order of root Malan stokes hales/Roy woakes it’s be back to the strength of 2005
I think the point of moving Bairstow up the order is so that he can become pur batsman? In which case you have to have Foakes in at 7 or 8?
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Stewart batted 5 and kept, or opened and kept and was quite simply for a lot of his career...superb.
I'm not sure myself about Bairstow playing as a batter only. Don't know much about Foakes batting but do know he is highly rated as a keeper
Stokes is bolt on number 6 for us which means JB would need to bat 5.
If JB did play as a batsman only that would mean less batting spots available. Vince/Malan might not both be in the team together, hameed might find it hard to get in.
Depending on you view of how we move forward...maybe competition for places(batting) is what we need now.
Some of the batsmen who have played in recent years, in my opinion, have not done enough
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Hameed will find it very hard to get in - because his runs have dried up. Cooks just scored a double ton and Stonemans done ok on his first tour. Bairstow, Root and Stokes have to play when available which leaves 2 spots in the top 7. I think Malan should keep his place. Could question Vinces place although if it wasnt for that freak delivery from Starc he'd have a ton like Malan
After the NZ tour I'd get Foakes in at 7 and get Bairstow up the order. Malan/Vince/ANOther can battle it out for the spare spot on the green championship wickets of April!
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There is no way Bairstow can keep and bat 3. Can you imagine keeping for 2 days then possibly batting in the 1st over.
I never knew how Stewart did it and ultimately thats why he gave keeping up.
Bat at 5 and keep a definite possibility and Malan maybe bat 3.
Only 4 players have made over 1000 test runs batting at 3 or higher whilst keeping and only Sangakarra averaged over 40 so would suggest that it's probably not the best option to take.
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Stoneman
Hammeed
Cook(yes at 3, avoid new ball and he's got a few years self in him)
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Crane
And then Any combo. Of
Anderson, Curran, woakes, Overton, roland Jones
If it's a real seamers track drop crane and Root and malan can provide spin to a better quality than mo did this tour.......
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Stoneman
Hammeed
Cook(yes at 3, avoid new ball and he's got a few years self in him)
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Crane
And then Any combo. Of
Anderson, Curran, woakes, Overton, roland Jones
If it's a real steamers track drop crane and Root and malan can provide spin to a better quality than mo did this tour.......
I wouldn't dismiss Mo quite so quickly!
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I wouldn't dismiss Mo quite so quickly!
Alis bowling figures against Australia only in tests(home and away) is an average of 63! 63.
We need a proper spin bowler not a pretend one.
His batting average is only 28 as well, but........ Baring malan and cook, no one else in line has one in the 40s, so probably ain't that bad compared.
Ian Bell averages 41 vs aus.........
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Alis bowling figures against Australia only in tests(home and away) is an average of 63! 63.
We need a proper spin bowler not a pretend one.
His batting average is only 28 as well, but........ Baring malan and cook, no one else in line has one in the 40s, so probably ain't that bad compared.
Ian Bell averages 41 vs aus.........
Root looks like a much better offie than mooen.. why doesn't he bowl more? Fitness issues?
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Alis bowling figures against Australia only in tests(home and away) is an average of 63! 63.
We need a proper spin bowler not a pretend one.
His batting average is only 28 as well, but........ Baring malan and cook, no one else in line has one in the 40s, so probably ain't that bad compared.
Ian Bell averages 41 vs aus.........
To be honest Malan looked a much better bowling option than Ali
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Saqlain Mushtaq is there to milk the money while the sun still shines.
He has been useless whilst coaching other spinners, as well.
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Vaughan in todays papers in Oz saying Jack Leach is the best option for the next series.
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Vaughan is halfway down the slippery slope towards becoming Mark Nicholas. I would much prefer to see Crane but couldn't grumble if Leach was given a shot - he's been the leading English spinner in the championship over the last 2 seasons
Ali has been poor no doubt, maybe its the finger. In the cricket ive watched he is barely spinning the ball, just letting it go. He had a great English summer with bat and ball so its a surprise he has struggled so badly with both down under. Im more surprised that his batting has failed so badly, he's looked like a walking wicket from the 2nd test
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In terms of spin options, the fact is that England just don't have many, especially given their inexplicable axing of Rashid. Ali is a batsman who will do a job at home batting eight and sending down a few overs - a role that could also be performed by Samit Patel. Beyond those three, there are precious few options.
Crane is a promising kid, but the fact is, Dawid Malan has a better first class average bowling leg spin than Crane presently does, and Mason is not even a first choice pick for his county. Jack Leach has some decent first class returns over the last two years but the suspicion has to be that he would not get his action past international umpires and television cameras. Dom Bess for me is one who could have the potential, but at present he is not playing every game for his county which is hampering his development. The other big hope of recent years, Alex Riley, has dropped out of the Kent side.
Seriously, its not a great lot to choose from...
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In terms of spin options, the fact is that England just don't have many, especially given their inexplicable axing of Rashid. Ali is a batsman who will do a job at home batting eight and sending down a few overs - a role that could also be performed by Samit Patel. Beyond those three, there are precious few options.
Crane is a promising kid, but the fact is, Dawid Malan has a better first class average bowling leg spin than Crane presently does, and Mason is not even a first choice pick for his county. Jack Leach has some decent first class returns over the last two years but the suspicion has to be that he would not get his action past international umpires and television cameras. Dom Bess for me is one who could have the potential, but at present he is not playing every game for his county which is hampering his development. The other big hope of recent years, Alex Riley, has dropped out of the Kent side.
Seriously, its not a great lot to choose from...
Leach went to Loughborough and has apparently changed his action and it's fine now. He wouldn't have been picked for the Lions otherwise.
Along with who you have mentioned....
Amar Virdi from Surrey is a very good prospect and had a good Lions tour. Out bowling Leach on occasions.
Lancashire leg-spinner Matthew Parkinson, who is currently in Sydney on an ECB Overseas Placement, is going on the Lions tour to WI.
Like you said though the problem is the youngsters just don't get the overs.
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In terms of spin options, the fact is that England just don't have many, especially given their inexplicable axing of Rashid. Ali is a batsman who will do a job at home batting eight and sending down a few overs - a role that could also be performed by Samit Patel. Beyond those three, there are precious few options.
Crane is a promising kid, but the fact is, Dawid Malan has a better first class average bowling leg spin than Crane presently does, and Mason is not even a first choice pick for his county. Jack Leach has some decent first class returns over the last two years but the suspicion has to be that he would not get his action past international umpires and television cameras. Dom Bess for me is one who could have the potential, but at present he is not playing every game for his county which is hampering his development. The other big hope of recent years, Alex Riley, has dropped out of the Kent side.
Seriously, its not a great lot to choose from...
Your right, and so is everyone else, spin is a problem.nothing has actually changed on this tour and spin was a problem a year ago. I'm not sure what Rashid is pencilled In for, one day and t20 it seems. If you believe the rumours, England don't like his attitude...this could mean anything.there must be a problem thou otherwise he would be playing.
As far as Kent goes I have a friend who plays for them, he was third choice spinner in 2016 but has played one day and championship cricket in 2017, so Alex Riley who was indeed highly rated, has dropped off and may need to move Counties depending on what Tredwell does, or has the opportunity to do in 2018.
Incidentally just read an interview with Bayliss and the three players he mentioned do In there were
Liam living stone
Joe clark
And Dan Lawrence.
I know a few on here have mentioned Lawrence as a possible England player.
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No-one is talking about why this (the demise of English spin bowling) is happening?
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Leach went to Loughborough and has apparently changed his action and it's fine now. He wouldn't have been picked for the Lions otherwise.
Along with who you have mentioned....
Amar Virdi from Surrey is a very good prospect and had a good Lions tour. Out bowling Leach on occasions.
Lancashire leg-spinner Matthew Parkinson, who is currently in Sydney on an ECB Overseas Placement, is going on the Lions tour to WI.
Like you said though the problem is the youngsters just don't get the overs.
Virdi won't get much Championship cricket behind Batty and Borthwick. Parkinson looked okay in the hit and giggle but again, how much Championship cricket will he get in a squad that has Croft, Parry, Kerrigan, Lilley...
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Your right, and so is everyone else, spin is a problem.nothing has actually changed on this tour and spin was a problem a year ago. I'm not sure what Rashid is pencilled In for, one day and t20 it seems. If you believe the rumours, England don't like his attitude...this could mean anything.there must be a problem thou otherwise he would be playing.
As far as Kent goes I have a friend who plays for them, he was third choice spinner in 2016 but has played one day and championship cricket in 2017, so Alex Riley who was indeed highly rated, has dropped off and may need to move Counties depending on what Tredwell does, or has the opportunity to do in 2018.
Incidentally just read an interview with Bayliss and the three players he mentioned do In there were
Liam living stone
Joe clark
And Dan Lawrence.
I know a few on here have mentioned Lawrence as a possible England player.
Lawrence I had not seen till last year, he looked decent. Livingstone is the one England cocked up though. Instead of silly T20s and filthy offices, he should have been developed as a top order bat who can bowl functional leggies.
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No-one is talking about why this (the demise of English spin bowling) is happening?
No Championship cricket played above 15 degrees you mean?
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No-one is talking about why this (the demise of English spin bowling) is happening?
Has to start and end with the pitches that are produced surely? If you have a quality spinner in your side the pitch will be prepared accordingly. Saqlain at Surrey, leach had pitches to help him in 2016, Worcester may of left pitches dry for Ashwin in the second half of 2017 when we got a bucketful for them.
Aside from Warne and maybe Vettori, the best spinners have been produced from Asian countries. That can't be a coincidence?
With promotion and relegation high stakes now, teams will produce pitches to their strengths, and have done for ages.
In the Uk odds are stacked against, hard to see how this can change in the short term
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The key question regarding Moeen Ali should be is he good enough as a pure batsman to play Test cricket. Secondly is he good enough as a spinner for Test cricket. Unfortunately for the lad it's no on both counts. Aside from the subcontinent, Moeen's incapable of batting in the top 6. Similarly his bowling average is 48 in away matches, which quite frankly is pathetic. In home conditions we find away of hiding him at 8 and let's him steal a few wickets. If we had genuine ambitions of being the best Test side. We pick the best spinner(it's not Moeen in a month of Sundays) and the best top 6(again Moeen isn't one of them).
He's had his moment is the Test side, now is the time to ditch the deadwood and get Adil, Leach or Crane bedded in before we rock up in Sri Lanka next winter.
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No Championship cricket played above 15 degrees you mean?
Basically, yes.
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Morgan's strategy in the ODI side is a good one to look at - if Stokes and Moeen are both available then the side is 5 batsmen, keeper, 2 allrounders, 4 bowlers. If Stokes isn't playing, the balance of the team changes as we don't have a direct replacement. You can replace him with a bowler, or a batsman, or forget replacing him and rethink how you balance the team. Replacing with a batsman leaves an attack of 4 bowlers plus Moeen - no good as Moeen is a luxury bowler rather than dependable. Replacing with a bowler leaves us a batsman light, so what do they do? Change tack and play 6 batsmen, keeper and 5 specialist bowlers = no space for Moeen.
Given Stokes isn't coming back any time soon, let's hope they have a proper think and rework the team properly rather than just picking an extra bowler and bunging everyone up a spot. Personally I'd consider a top 5 batsmen, YJB/Samit whichever way round, then 3 seamers and a specialist spinner. Maybe Crane takes loads of poles at Sydney and a star is born, maybe give Leach a go, who knows.